NFL 2009

[TwinkieGorilla]

yeah, i just heard Robinson with "work ethic/health" issues. must be why...though, i wonder...if he's still on the board by the time the Pack are up again, i think they have to take him.

EDIT: well, we nabbed Meredith. hopefully GB can beat the 'tude outta him and get his consistency up. we are gearing up for a BIG running year, which will take the pressure off A-Rod.

i'm super-stoked about our draft this year and think all the TT naysayer's can suck it!!

 

[UniversalWolf]

Ok, for serious guys, don't you guys see my problem with Raji?

Of course I see it, and you might be right. It's just that Ted, Dom Capers, Kevin Greene, Nick Barnett, and plenty of other people disagree with you.

There's no way to know for sure what's going to happen in the next three years, but going on what I know today, this was Ted's best draft. I like the Raji pick. I like the Matthews trade. I like that Ted snagged a couple of good OT prospects and a monster fullback in the later rounds (In particular I noticed more than a few fans of other teams were bummed when Meredith went off the board). Will it work out in the end? I don't know. But regarding the job the Packers did with the draft this year, I have zero complaints. I'm not sure that's ever happened before. I'm excited to see what the team looks like this year, because I can envision how all the new pieces might fit into the plan.

i'm super-stoked about our draft this year and think all the TT naysayer's can suck it!!

I feel the same way. Ted's not perfect, but I think some people just hate him because of the Favre fiasco. I saw a poster on another board make the point that the people who have always complained about Ted never making aggressive trades for good players are the same ones complaining that he gave up too much for Matthews.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

i actually just got done making a post on packershome.com about how some of the Packer fanatics disgust me almost as much as the Jets fanatics. i called them a bunch of nagging housewife backseat drivers who are never satisfied. they complain about Ted walking one way, and then when he walks the other way...they fucking complain.

and of course, boyfriend Favre never made a mistake.


fucking glad to be an out-of-state Packer fan at this stage in my life for sure.

 

[Brother None]

That's not much of an argument, UW. We're all backseaters here. And I'm not one to complain and backbench murmur much, Seahawks skipped some players in the late rounds that mystified me for some players I never heard of, yet I know Ruskell knows what he's doing, and reading up on the players I can see his angle.

Same for Thompson. But that I still just can't find the angle here; no matter how hard I try I don't see how the Packers intend to utilize Raji, an ideal inside rusher...

Anyway, I like the Pack draft overall. Matthews is great, between Meredith and Lang you should find an upgrade to your O-Line, and keep your eye on Underwood, an unpolished but interesting prospect. If Raji does turn out to be the right fit at nose tackle somehow, this is a pretty awesome draft, addressing more or less all of the Pack's needs.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

remember, part of training camp is beefing up guys who need it (not just slimming down!). i have a really great feeling about this year...i'm actually excited about the Pack (and the NFC North in general after this draft) instead of last year, where i was just nervous the entire time. heh.

as for nose tackle in the 3-4, McCarthy seemed really confident that we've got about 4 or 5 players that could adapt and adjust to it. the way he talked about Raji, seems like they're going to try to utilize the hell out of him.

 

[Brother None]

Heh, nice averaging out the completely meaningless draft grades

Green Bay ends up with a B+, trailing only the Pats, Giants and Jets.

I think they're overselling the Giants, and the Jets are getting a lot of hype over drafting the <s>failure</s>QB of the future, but the Pats are legitimately the best.

Though my personal fav goes to the Jags. Cooley addressed all their needs, got one of the draft's best WRs (Thomas) at a bargain, but no one got as much value out of day 1 as they did. Massive upgrade to their team.

B- for 'Hawks. Eh. This draft was more about next year

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Yeah I love how people want to rank the 'winners and losers' before these kids have even entered training camp. All we have is potential, whether that potential is realized or not has yet to be determined.
If you need proof of how laughable that shit is, go look at a pre-draft breakdown from 3, 4, 5 years ago.

and the Jets are getting a lot of hype over drafting the <s>failure</s>QB of the future,

Jets ownership loves big-arm, flashy QBs, because they need to sell all those frigging PSLs in the new stadium. Winning isn't everything - most Jets fans are painfully aware of that.

but the Pats are legitimately the best.

Well, it depends on what you think a team is trying to accomplish. The Pats clearly have the luxury of not having immediate draft needs. They are drafting for a few years down the line when their current starters are due for monster contracts (Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork, Logan Mankins etc.). The Pats never get held hostage by a particular player or position. They have a kickass model in place that's built on long term, sustainable success.
The Pat's shortfall is in not resigning those current players when they demand big contracts. It started with Lawyer Milloy Leaving and the Pats premature obituary when he trounced them in that Buffalo game. Then Willie McGinnest, Deion Branch, Asante Samuels, Vrabel. They'll let guys like that walk. Which long term is great, but bites them in the ass short term.
Here is the Belichek arrogance - we're not going to pay Deion Branch - we can beat Indy with Reche Caldwell and Doug Gabriel - ummm no you fuckin can't. And you know that since you overcompensated the next year bringing in Moss, Welker & Stallworth. Now - they fucking stole those guys and pay them peanuts - because they have the cap room from not over paying Branch. SO long term great, short term - it definately cost them the AFC championship game they lost in Indy. Same with Asante Samuels - you need a CB, Ellis Hobbes and an unsigned free agent don't fucking cut it.

But it's the right thing to do.
The Pats have layed down the law.
They don't renegotiate (unless it's Brady taking less).
They trade douchebags who hold out.
You sign a contract with the Pats, and you either fulfill it or you are gone. They have none of it.
It's a hardassed way and sometimes it hurts. But they run their organization right.

Believe me, in the back of every Pat's fans mind is that day when Brady's value to the team becomes less than what he contributes.

Belichek isn't the best drafter. But any asshole could draft Marshall Faulk or Payton Manning. His skill is in placing a value on a player, and collecting the most versatile talent at the lowest cost.
That's what the salary cap era is all about.

edit: Speak of the devil

 

[UniversalWolf]

That's not much of an argument, UW. We're all backseaters here. And I'm not one to complain and backbench murmur much, Seahawks skipped some players in the late rounds that mystified me for some players I never heard of, yet I know Ruskell knows what he's doing, and reading up on the players I can see his angle.

The reason I think the Packers did a good job on the draft is because they simultaneously selected the best player available at each of their picks, and players that filled team needs. That's very difficult to pull off. And they did a good job figuring out how far they could let the players they wanted fall without losing them. Good solid strategy. It's the opposite of what Al Davis did. There's nothing wrong with Al taking DHB if that's the guy he wants, but by trading down, even if the Raiders had to take a bad deal, they could've gotten DHB with a cheaper contract and more picks.

I was also worried that Green Bay would end up getting stuck with Andre Smith. He might ultimately be a great player, but I would be very nervous about his mental toughness if they had used a top-ten pick on him.

In the end I forget the picks and just look at the list of players the Packers got, and I'm pretty happy with it.

But that I still just can't find the angle here; no matter how hard I try I don't see how the Packers intend to utilize Raji, an ideal inside rusher...

He's going to be the NT in their new 3-4, platooning with Ryan Pickett. Beyond that, we'll have to wait and see.

Belichek isn't the best drafter. But any asshole could draft Marshall Faulk or Payton Manning. His skill is in placing a value on a player, and collecting the most versatile talent at the lowest cost.

I also think the strategy of stockpiling picks is a sound one, since it gives you flexibility if you ever want to make a trade, and it increases your chances of striking gold by drafting a higher number of players. You also never know when a draft class is going to come around that is loaded with talent. In that case you don't want to be short on picks.

i called them a bunch of nagging housewife backseat drivers who are never satisfied.

Heh. I'm not that upset about it, but I do think the anti-Ted faction is more unreasonable than the pro-Ted faction.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

3-4 is predicated on a rock-solid, immovable, gap plugging fire hydrant of a human being. Get past him and your quick LBs are naught but tackling dummies.
Is Raji that guy? Remains to be seen. He's got the body mass for it. It's a thankless position, and no matter how good he is, he'll never get recognition. It's his job to occupy at least 2 blocker/2 holes and free up the LBs to run free and scrape.

I like GB's draft, 2 immediate starters from the 1st round. DL and LB are safe picks.

I also think the strategy of stockpiling picks is a sound one, since it gives you flexibility if you ever want to make a trade, and it increases your chances of striking gold by drafting a higher number of players. You also never know when a draft class is going to come around that is loaded with talent. In that case you don't want to be short on picks.

Yep, and it's not like you ever have to pick anybody with those stockpiled picks. Don't pick for it's own sake, trade them.
Wes Welker for a 2nd and a 7th.
Randy Moss for a 4th round pick? bligatory Al Davis WTF moment:
Who got drafted with those picks they gave up for those two? (Rhetorical question )
The trick is in stockpiling and pulling the trigger at the right time, be it for more picks, more players, or both. But like I said, the Pats have that luxury, many teams don't.

The Lions and Jets success or failure over the next 3-4 years will largely be impacted by their 1st round blue-chip 60-million dollar QBs. If these kids aren't the next Joe Montana, they're fucked, for many years to come. These top-5 1st rounders are out of control now with the contracts. It's one thing when it's a robust draft class. To eat up that much cap space for someone who's never played - well if you got yourself a Barry Sanders or a Troy Aikman or a Deion Sanders, that's awesome. But anything less, at the money they are making and you're getting fleeced. And the opportunity cost.

I really don't know what to think of the Jets/Sanchez situation. Not that I watch much NCAA football anymore, but this is your franchise QB? You traded up for him?

I don't know, I think pro-sports has expanded too much. It waters things down too much. And what for? Bigger TV contracts. Sell some luxury boxes.

 

[Brother None]

Is Raji that guy? Remains to be seen. He's got the body mass for it. It's a thankless position, and no matter how good he is, he'll never get recognition. It's his job to occupy at least 2 blocker/2 holes and free up the LBs to run free and scrape.

And again I mention my problems. He's relatively short, and he's got freakishly short arms. How is he going to play two gap. HOW?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!? HE'S AN INSIDE RUSHER PEOPLE ARGH!!!

I really don't know what to think of the Jets/Sanchez situation. Not that I watch much NCAA football anymore, but this is your franchise QB? You traded up for him?

A mark of this draft was the overrating of QBs. I don't want to undersell Ryan (or Flacco), but both pretty much ran as caretakers of a rush offense (the Ravens ranked 28th in the pass and 4th in the rush, Falcon's 14th in the pass and 2nd in the rush)...still, they got a lot of hype for successful rookie WRs, especially Ryan, which meant an overrating of QBs in the current draft. I think Stafford is legit, honestly, but 5th overall for a QB who started 16 games in college is stupid, and Freeman was not worth a mid-round pick.

New York Jets have the set-up to replicate the run-first thing with Sanchez, except I fully expect him to collapse under the psychological pressure of playing for a city full of assholes. Freeman and Stafford are fucked. Shame for Stafford, I like the kid.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

And again I mention my problems. He's relatively short, and he's got freakishly short arms. How is he going to play two gap. HOW?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!? HE'S AN INSIDE RUSHER PEOPLE ARGH!!!

What kind of rush do you get from a 340 pounder? 5 step drop a few times and he's gassed for the rest of the game. All you need to do in the 3-4 is not get pushed off the line of scrimage, occupy space and blockers. You don't even actively need to do this. Just being 340 pounds and not getting blown out is success. Just being there is disruptive. No human being can block out 2 NFL offensive lineman every play. But do it enough times at the right times and he will be OK.
Again, even if he is successfull, we won't hear about it. Judge Raji by how much freedom his LBs have in executing their duites though. Not by tackles, sacks or hurries.

New York Jets have the set-up to replicate the run-first thing with Sanchez, except I fully expect him to collapse under the psychological pressure of playing for a city full of assholes.

They did last year too. Sick O-line and the AFC's best rusher, plus Leon Washington is one of those guys you just need to get the ball. But they don't their the Jets.

And living in the shadow of NYC here in Connecticut I have to stick up for my Tri-state brethren.
City full of assholes is kind of harsh. They care about winning. NOW. They don't have tolerance for ineptitude or incompetence. Why should they? People in Kansas City and St. Louis are OK with losing, good for them.
That a lot of athletes get brought in for big, big money and then can't handle the pressure and scrutiny isn't the fan's fault. It's the player's fault for not living up to their contract.

Do your job well in NYC and you become a god. Guys like Lawrence Taylor, can't go into a bar or restaurant without having complete strangers pick up his tab.

Your typical Jets fan is a New Jersey guido anyway.

I will not stick up for the NYC mentality that teams like the Yankees have where they basically just win because they compile the biggest payroll at the expense of young prospects.

 

[Brother None]

What kind of rush do you get from a 340 pounder?

He's not a 340 pounder. Though I'm sure you'll bulk him up to that.

Admittedly he's a little heavy for a one-gap guy, but his burst at his size makes him a good play for that position, and as I mentioned earlier, I think his wingspan limits him to a rush position over a blocking one.

All you need to do in the 3-4 is not get pushed off the line of scrimage, occupy space and blockers. You don't even actively need to do this.

That's oversimplifying the case. There's a reason good nose tackles are hard to come by, and it's not just because ideally they're 6'3 350 pound freaks of nature. And don't forget Raji is still undersized compared to the prototype freak of nature, Ted Washington, who was 6'5 370 pounds (if not more).

Wing span is almost as important, as is lateral quickness. Richard Seymour has played two gap for the Pats at times and he does really well despite being way too light for a two gap DT (310 pounds).

To occupy space and blockers you actually need to identify, quickly move to the space (which is more about lateral quickness than straight-line speed, Raji has the latter but not the former) and hold two blockers. Not every down, true, but enough times to make the difference. Raji has the toolset to be a great one gap DT, but he's going to bust if the Pack tries to use him as a two gap.

And living in the shadow of NYC here in Connecticut I have to stick up for my Tri-state brethren.

Eh. As far I'm concerned the entire NFC East and the Pats and Jets are all franchises founded on being a bunch of assholes. Needing to win doesn't come close to explaining the torrent of shit poured over players and staff in the franchise, and "they're ok with losing" is just a lame platitude. Sure that some ferociousness also applies to support, but I don't think you can even it out just like that.

Is there anything "wrong" with it? Depends. The world needs its assholes, as long as you're honest about it and embrace your assholish nature. Can't have every franchise run the same way either, it wouldn't be fun.

But get real if you think being able to handle the pressure or not is a fair statement for these franchises. Donovan McNabb has had to handle an ungodly amount of pressure throughout his career, more than you can excuse simply by him being a high-paid athlete. It is what it is, honestly, but I wouldn't start to make excuses for it. The fans are assholes, and they put more pressure on the players than is either helpful or reasonable. If I were them, I would sooner embrace that assholishness as a source of pride then try to deny it, which is not going to convince anybody.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Well put yourself in a Jets fan's shoes and tell me what you've had to cheer about over the last 30 years. They're negative, and the history of their club is what's engendered that.

As far I'm concerned the entire NFC East and the Pats and Jets are all franchises founded on being a bunch of assholes.

OK now I know you are just trolling
What are you basing this on?
Maybe my POV is skewed, but does a commitment to winning make you an asshole? I guess if you're one of the losers, then yeah. Take just four of the teams you mentioned - Skins, Cowboys, Giants, Pats. Can you name 4 other teams with more combined Lombardi trophies?
And you do realize that those 6 teams you mentioned are in the top 7 most valuable teams. This isn't the NHL where they hand out the Lady Bing Trophy to the leagues biggest <s>pussy</s> gentleman.

So they are the most profitable and have the most championships.
What are they doing wrong again?

Are we assholes? I guess you could say so, but that's not the big picture. I would also say fans here are more passionate, more knowledgeable, have higher standards and are more apt to express frustration.

Anyway, I'll take authentic assholes over disingenuous "nice" people any day.

But get real if you think being able to handle the pressure or not is a fair statement for these franchises.

Some people can't handle the scrutiny here. The sports media around here is ubiquitous. It's

Donovan McNabb has had to handle an ungodly amount of pressure throughout his career, more than you can excuse simply by him being a high-paid athlete.

Yeah I can almost hear the violin playing his song. Poor, poor Donovan, he must cry himself to sleep every night surrounded by empty can of Chunky soup. What a fucking tragedy. I'm sure the only thing holding him back is noisy fans.


You're just a bitter Seahawks fan, I forgive your outburst. Go sit on your hands and keep your mouth shut, I'm sure that will help the club immensely. Don't choke on those sour grapes though bra'.

 

[Brother None]

What are you basing this on?
Maybe my POV is skewed, but does a commitment to winning make you an asshole? I guess if you're one of the losers, then yeah.

I'm basing it on this predictability. This instinctive need to go on the offensive whenever a disagreement comes up, this "oh we're not nice, well it most be because we're not losers like you" reply is just par the course as far as I can see.

Take just four of the teams you mentioned - Skins, Cowboys, Giants, Pats. Can you name 4 other teams with more combined Lombardi trophies?

Uh yeah, easily. The Skins (3), Cowboys (5), Giants (3) and Pats (3) combine for 14 Superbowl wins. The Steelers (6), 49ers (5), Raiders (3) and Packers (3) combine for 17. And they didn't even have to be assholes about it

What are they doing wrong again?

And again emotions so quickly clouds your masshole judgements. If you had read my words more carefully you would have found I'm ok with it, and don't think there's anything wrong with it. Rather, I'm all for you embracing it. But when you embrace it embrace it fully, no need to steam at someone just for identifying it.

Anyway, I'll take authentic assholes over disingenuous "nice" people any day.

And I take people who don't let emotion get the better of them at the drop of a hate over authentic assholes anyday. Sport's about emotion, and that's fine, but please don't pretend you can combine this amount of emotion with actual, rational football knowledge. You can't have it both ways. Either you're the analytical, rational fan, like the Seahawks have, or emotionally supportive, like the Packers, or emotionally destructive, like most of the East coast.

I'm sure the only thing holding him back is noisy fans.

There is nothing holding him back. He's a franchise QB that has brought his team to 5 NFC championship games and 1 Superbowl. He hasn't won the big one, sadly, but considering how little help he's got I would consider his accomplishments by far superior to many more highly-esteemed QBs.

Yet he gets shit. It is what it is, but don't pretend it is reasonable.

You're just a bitter Seahawks fan, I forgive your outburst. Go sit on your hands and keep your mouth shut, I'm sure that will help the club immensely. Don't choke on those sour grapes though bra'.

You are trying to prove my point for me, I would suppose?

EDIT: Woohoo!

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I'm basing it on this predictability. This instinctive need to go on the offensive whenever a disagreement comes up, this "oh we're not nice, well it most be because we're not losers like you" reply is just par the course as far as I can see.

That has what to do with those franchises being based on assholes?
Ah yes, clearly when I call you out for saying baseless things like "franchises founded on being a bunch of assholes." I'm being an asshole.
As far as losers go, this is competitive sports we're talking about right?

Dude please explain the thought process that brings you to the conclusion that those teams "are all franchises founded on being a bunch of assholes."
If you're trolling or taking the piss, it's better done with more nuance.

Uh yeah, easily. The Skins (3), Cowboys (5), Giants (3) and Pats (3) combine for 14 Superbowl wins. The Steelers (6), 49ers (5), Raiders (3) and Packers (3) combine for 17. And they didn't even have to be assholes about it

I forgot to qualify that by saying since 1980.
And the Raiders? Nice guys. You're making yourself look bad BN.
Anyway 14 wouldn't be a sign of failure would it?

You're beating a dead horse.
I know people here are assholes, more than you can ever comprehend without ever having been in traffic with these pricks on I-95, or the LIE, or the Mass Pike or the Garden State Pkwy during rush hour. I don't have a problem with it, and like I said, I would rather genuine jerk-offs, then fake "nice" people.

But you're dead wrong to paint Philly/Jets fans and Giants/Pats fans together. One is a group of negative, disappointed losers - who great release is going to the game and hurling insults and/or batteries at players. The other two are fairly secure and satisfied in the direction their respective clubs are going.

Seriously. The Giants. The Mara Family. Class fucking franchise. Class of the league. Explain to me how they are "founded on being assholes". The Jets only just sold from the Hess family. Redskins and Jack Kent Cook. Founded on being assholes?
You are either uninformed or being provacative for it's own sake.

Either you're the analytical, rational fan, like the Seahawks have, or emotionally supportive, like the Packers, or emotionally destructive, like most of the East coast.

Ah, here it is. The loser's rationalization.
Rational fan - that's an oxymoron.
Emotionally supportive.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but now I know you've gone off the deep end.
Emotionally supportive?
Oprah would be proud ( I think she's a Bears fan though). Mr. Packer himself, the man for whom the trophy is named with take issue with that. He had no tolerance for losers. That's why it's not called the Wayne Fontes trophy.
You know what kind of emotional support we got playing football.
"Suck it up".
It's not enough that these guys are paid millions to play a fun game, we have to hold their hands and whisper encouragements to them.
They are professionals in every sense of the word. It's their job. If they can't perform their job better then the guy behind them, cut them loose. It's a competitive game. You play to win. All this other bullshit

Emotionally supportive. Good luck with that when James Harrison fucking suplexes you on your head.

Seriously, I don't even know what your beef is. I know firsthand the level of pricktitude here, I neither shy away, nor disavow that. And I don't know what if any level of actual contact you've had with the North Eastern sports fan, but I wager not much. I would spend some time listening to either WFAN out of NYC or WEEI out of Boston, the two highest rated sports stations in the country. Especially in the afternoon. Fans here can be even worse than you think, but more often than not they won't fit your prejudice.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

you forgot to mention the J-way. every day i had to drive down that bitch i thought was my last. and i'm not exactly a passive driver/person myself (big surprise, i know).

the cool thing about Boston though, is that since i'm a total prick...naturally, i fit in wicked-nice. can't wait to move back!


(though i must say i DO love the way the Packers organization handles itself and it's players.)

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Yeah that's the thing, BN thinks I'm pissed off - this is me in a good mood. I'm pretty happy to tell the truth.

Talk about asshole fans, I was going to take my kids to Foxboro and go to the museum and shit (don't think I won't take gloating pics in front of the hardware and post them here ). Anyway, I'm chechking out the website and they actually have a "Code of Conduct". Now keep in mind, this isn't for inside the stadium itself, but a really upscale shopping/dining area around it. Here's the first 3 rules:

The following conduct will not be tolerated on Patriot Place property:

* Using obscene language, obscene gestures, or racial, religious or ethnic slurs.
* Violence, threats of violence, fighting, physical abuse or physically or verbally threatening any person, or hostility of any kind.
* Annoying others through noisy or boisterous activities or by unnecessary staring or following

Thems my people.




And yeah, the Packers public ownership is a great way for a small market like that to keep a major league franchise. Too bad league officials in any sport will never allow that to happen again. I've pretty much boycotted hockey since they moved all the small market teams (like my Hartford Whalers :sniff to hockey illiterate southern states for no other reason than a national TV contract. Then they cleaned up a lot of the fighting and excessive violence. And now they wonder why people don't watch hockey anymore.

 

[UniversalWolf]

Well put yourself in a Jets fan's shoes and tell me what you've had to cheer about over the last 30 years. They're negative, and the history of their club is what's engendered that.

It's funny you say that. I had never really paid much attention to the Jets before last year, but I watched them a bit because of 4, and the whole team, organization, and fanbase reminded me of the Vikings - the four-time SuperBowl loser Vikings. They have some good tradition, but not nearly enough to overcome all the bitterness and disappointment. They turn on their players and coaches the second something goes wrong, and they whine about everything. I know lots of Packer fans who make a hobby of turning on Vikings sports radio whenever they lose a game, because the whining is hilarious. The bitterness is so pervasive that it affects the franchise, in my opinion. I don't think any of the players love playing for the Vikings. They get criticized too much, and too harshly.

It's a big contrast with the Minnesota Twins. They're based in the same city, and yet the Twins are an organization as solid as any you'll find in baseball. Their fans are classy and not bitter at all.

And yeah, the Packers public ownership is a great way for a small market like that to keep a major league franchise. Too bad league officials in any sport will never allow that to happen again.

One of my friends has his Packers stock certificate framed on the wall.

When Jesse Ventura was running for Governer of Minnesota, this actually became a minor campaign issue. In one of the debates someone asked why the Vikings couldn't do the same thing as the Packers, and he was the only one who knew the answer: the league has rules to prevent it.

I've pretty much boycotted hockey since they moved all the small market teams (like my Hartford Whalers :sniff to hockey illiterate southern states for no other reason than a national TV contract.

A Whalers fan! Awesome! I can't say I was a fan, but I miss the Nordiques because they had killer uniforms.

Personally the only hockey I really enjoy watching these days is Olympic hockey. I like the NHL playoffs, but they don't have the same passion as the Olympics.

He's not a 340 pounder. Though I'm sure you'll bulk him up to that.

On the day of the draft they were listing him as 337, but then he's only what, 22 years old? And he hasn't been introduced to Wisconsin fried cheese curds yet.

With a front-three rotation of Jenkins, Raji, Pickett, Jolly, and hopefully mixing in Harrell...I'm looking forward to seeing it in action. I've heard rumors that Pickett might play DE alongside Raji at NT, which is interesting. I have my fingers crossed that Harrell will finally stay healthy this year so we can finally find out whether he's good or not.

The trick is in stockpiling and pulling the trigger at the right time, be it for more picks, more players, or both. But like I said, the Pats have that luxury, many teams don't.

And behold! Alex Smith is a Pat. Is this curtains for Ben Watson?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

It's funny you say that. I had never really paid much attention to the Jets before last year, but I watched them a bit because of 4, and the whole team, organization, and fanbase reminded me of the Vikings - the four-time SuperBowl loser Vikings. They have some good tradition, but not nearly enough to overcome all the bitterness and disappointment. They turn on their players and coaches the second something goes wrong, and they whine about everything.

I almost pity the Jets. Almost. They don't even belong in the same class as the Vikes, the Jets only have one shining moment in franchise history in SB II, and how many of us were alive for that one?
So in a way I can sympathies with the fansbase.
But the Jets can't win for losing.

I really don't know about Sanchez though. He doesn't have the strongest arm, which is going to hurt when the weather goes south - which it does. Has he ever even seen snow?
I'm obliged to hate the Jets, but I was a huge fan of Buddy Ryan's 46 defense in Chicago '85 and Philly ~88/89. I'd almost root for Rex if he wasn't a Jets coach.

A Whalers fan! Awesome! I can't say I was a fan, but I miss the Nordiques because they had killer uniforms.

Oh hell yeah. I went to so many Whalers/Nordiques games as a kid I can probably sing the Canadian anthem in French.

[/quote]
And behold! Alex Smith is a Pat. Is this curtains for Ben Watson?[/quote]
There's nothing I'd like to see more than Ben Watson succeed, but he drops the ball way too much. He never became who he was supposed to be. More shrewd moves from Belichik though.

 

[Brother None]

You really do need to calm down, CN. That said, there's a handful of points it boils down to here.

Anyway 14 wouldn't be a sign of failure would it?

You keep pushing this point. Please point out where I stated either that I consider their asshole-nishness a bad thing or that I think their franchises suffer for it. In fact, I pointed out specifically that I think these franchises work on it, the general asshole attitude a part of the overall design. I have no problem with that, so stop making it out like I do.

I know people here are assholes.

Uh, then what exactly is a problem? You can call them assholes but when I do you lower the guns at me? Why? I'm not supposed to say that as an outsider? Eh, screw that. I say they're assholes, you admit they're assholes, so what's the problem.

One is a group of negative, disappointed losers - who great release is going to the game and hurling insults and/or batteries at players. The other two are fairly secure and satisfied in the direction their respective clubs are going.

Please don't tell me you actually think this has anything to do with the personality of the fans, rather than the existing success of their teams.

Oprah would be proud ( I think she's a Bears fan though). Mr. Packer himself, the man for whom the trophy is named with take issue with that. He had no tolerance for losers. That's why it's not called the Wayne Fontes trophy.
You know what kind of emotional support we got playing football.
"Suck it up".
It's not enough that these guys are paid millions to play a fun game, we have to hold their hands and whisper encouragements to them.
They are professionals in every sense of the word. It's their job. If they can't perform their job better then the guy behind them, cut them loose. It's a competitive game. You play to win. All this other bullshit

Emotionally supportive. Good luck with that when James Harrison fucking suplexes you on your head.

Wow. There's so many logical fallacies in here I don't even know where to start...James Harrison fucking suplexing me on my head? I wasn't aware that James Harrison targets emotionally supportive fans to tackle in the tribunes, I could've sworn he mostly, y'know, played on the field. Because you seem to have missed that I'm not talking about how players act on the field, at all.

Anyway, the difference is so obvious it's pretty much impossible to miss. Most if not all franchises have emotionally invested fans. The majority of some have the tendency to default to being supportive, the majority of the others have the tendency to default the other way. That does not mean that Pack fans can't be destructive if emotions get the better of them, the Favre farce showed as much, but it means they don't default that way.

Emotion is first. You can't have a fanbase without being emotional, though I will easily hold on to the claim that some tend to be more rational about it than others, but what you do with the emotion is another matter entirely.

And that's why Sanchez' chances of busting are pretty high despite the good situation he's in with the Jets as a team, with a run-first offense and a defensive-minded coach, you can't land much better as a rook QB. But he can still fail, easily, because he's never given the chance...that's the way these franchises function or don't function, I wouldn't say it overall gives them a higher or lower chance of success.

Also, you can have a lot of criticisms ready at hand on how overpaid NFL and other pro sport players are, though from an economic viewpoint it just makes sense because people pay enough to value their services this highly, but to excuse the way sports "fans" in the Tri-State area tear into NFL players like a pack of rabid dogs because these players are being paid well anyway is just really stupid. They're not being paid to take public abuse. That's just a free bonus.

I know firsthand the level of pricktitude here, I neither shy away, nor disavow that.

Then what is your beef with me, exactly? Because that's all I'm saying. May I suggest that perhaps your instinct to become angry at someone from "outside" saying what you accept as truth anyway got the better of you, and that you need to reconsider your argument, yes?

On the day of the draft they were listing him as 337, but then he's only what, 22 years old? And he hasn't been introduced to Wisconsin fried cheese curds yet.

Yeah, but I think he beefed up for the draft, his playing weight was in the 320s.

Again, that's not a huge problem, he can be bulked up. But I'm afraid you can't make his freakishly short dwarf arms any longer.