NFL 2010

Cimmerian Nights said:
It's not because of size, because when they get recruited from the HSs and Unis it's production and potential. Only a few positions are for freaks. You're talking center in the NBA, or NTs OLs, those are the positions that demand freaks. The average sized American male would easily fill the role height/weight wise of a NBA point guard or a NFL CB (not fitness wise obv.). Best NBA players are 6" point guards, not 7" gawky uncoordinated doofs.
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Athleticism is also part of freakishness.

Cimmerian Nights said:
With the aid of roids, diet and exercise you could take the avg. HS LB and develop him physically into a Cushing or even better, a Bill Romanowski.
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If you could, there'd be a hell of a lot more NFL-quality players around.

Cimmerian Nights said:
So adding steroids to the mix is an issue of degree? If diminished health and longevity is a given, what's another 5 years off your life for DROTY honors, or the Pro-Bowl, or that extra 200 yards you need to hit bonus?
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Yep. The question of these people hurting their bodies isn't specific to steroids but to the entire sport. Though there's a point to be made that better and better protection evolves for the players on the field. Still, players are exchanging health for money as soon as they step onto the field.
 
Sander said:
Cimmerian Nights said:
With the aid of roids, diet and exercise you could take the avg. HS LB and develop him physically into a Cushing or even better, a Bill Romanowski.
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If you could, there'd be a hell of a lot more NFL-quality players around.
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I'm emphasizing the word physically in my original quote as that's as far as I intended for it to go. There are plenty of buff dudes with LB physiques who don't have the brains, heart, aggressiveness, read-and-react speed, and most importantly, nastiness that an NFL LB needs. I'm just saying give me an avg. HS LB and by age 22 I can have him fit the height/weight requirements that the NFL looks at for the LB position. I never implied I could turn an avg. HS LB into an NFL LB in toto.

Point being: It does not take a physical freak to play NFL football, and an avg sized kid could, with the aid of diet, exercise and optionally roids fit the bill size-wise for most any position.

Cimmerian Nights said:
Yep. The question of these people hurting their bodies isn't specific to steroids but to the entire sport. Though there's a point to be made that better and better protection evolves for the players on the field. Still, players are exchanging health for money as soon as they step onto the field.
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I'm cool with them polluting their bodies as long as they accept both the negative and positive consequences of their actions. You can't cherry-pick the effects of 'roids - yes I want the big muscles and rage, but not the shrunken nuts or the bad press.
Typical American victim mentality. Don't take responsibility for your own actions, call your lawyer and the spin doctors, deny everything!

The only victims I see here are the clean, honest guys who don't cheat, their hard work and commitment is ridiculed when they are pushed aside in favor of juice-monkeys.

Honestly I don't care for the police reports, the petty contract squabbles, the piss tests, the affairs. This is not what interests me about football.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
I'm emphasizing the word physically in my original quote as that's as far as I intended for it to go. There are plenty of buff dudes with LB physiques who don't have the brains, heart, aggressiveness, read-and-react speed, and most importantly, nastiness that an NFL LB needs. I'm just saying give me an avg. HS LB and by age 22 I can have him fit the height/weight requirements that the NFL looks at for the LB position. I never implied I could turn an avg. HS LB into an NFL LB in toto.

Point being: It does not take a physical freak to play NFL football, and an avg sized kid could, with the aid of diet, exercise and optionally roids fit the bill size-wise for most any position.
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I think there's a lot more athleticism to it than that. I'd agree with you at the college level, but I think roids can only take you so far even with all the intangibles and football intellect that comes with playing the game. Height/weight/speed(maybe) requirements could probably be met though, yeah.

And of course, if everyone's using that just creates a new minimum requirement.

Cimmerian Nights said:
I'm cool with them polluting their bodies as long as they accept both the negative and positive consequences of their actions. You can't cherry-pick the effects of 'roids - yes I want the big muscles and rage, but not the shrunken nuts or the bad press.
Typical American victim mentality. Don't take responsibility for your own actions, call your lawyer and the spin doctors, deny everything!

The only victims I see here are the clean, honest guys who don't cheat, their hard work and commitment is ridiculed when they are pushed aside in favor of juice-monkeys.

Honestly I don't care for the police reports, the petty contract squabbles, the piss tests, the affairs. This is not what interests me about football.
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This is a lot more interesting:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsq45OkEUs8[/youtube]
 
Sander said:
And of course, if everyone's using that just creates a new minimum requirement.
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I think we're already there. 15 years ago you could count the number of >300lb OL on one hand. Now it's a prerequisite.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
15 years ago you could count the number of >300lb OL on one hand. Now it's a prerequisite.
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I remember when 275 was plenty big enough for an o-lineman. That was a long time ago.

There's definitely a double standard between football and, say, baseball when it comes to 'roiding. And I think that's appropriate, actually.

Cushing got caught, suspended four games, and everyone knows he's a juicer now. And his nuts will shrivel up like raisins. Good enough for me.
 
UniversalWolf said:
There's definitely a double standard between football and, say, baseball when it comes to 'roiding. And I think that's appropriate, actually.
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I think so too, for a couple reasons. The correlation between steroids and an increase in power hitting is evident, and not only that, but the league buried their head in the sand due to the boost in interest level that all the power hitting and HRs created. The HR is the money shot in baseball. It really sparked national interest again and I'm sure filled a lot of pockets. I don't think more 'roids in the NFL translates into more points, and even if it did, if that it that would generate more revenue. It's a QB league and I don't see QBs gaining a lot from 'roids (HGH for speedy recovery maybe).
Also, baseball is all about numbers and stats and records. The eternal, sacred numbers. Which of course have been forever ruined by the juicers.
Football's never been about that, even with the advent of FF, but even that's a by-product of football, that, like gambling, is on a peripheral, dependent domain to the sport, but not having any effect on the game itself.
There's no point in comparing Jim Brown's 12 game season's production to OJ's 14, or Barry Sanders' 16, and soon we'll have 17 or more. Football has distinct eras, and it's really pointless to cross-compare.
Baseball hasn't really changed in the actual playing of the game over 100 years, where football is almost unrecognizable from it's roots.

Cushing got caught, suspended four games, and everyone knows he's a juicer now. And his nuts will shrivel up like raisins. Good enough for me.
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That's why I don't need to see the kid crucified or publicly flogged. He will pay the price for what he's done to his body. It won't be pretty, and no lawyer or appeal is going to stop that.
Cushing doth protest too much though.

I think you're about as old as I am U-Dub to remember Lyle Alzado's final chapter and how he basically wasted away before everyone's eyes all the while decrying 'roids, he was like a walking PSA. Well, limping really. He was a hardcore juicer - shooting some kind of natural HGH type hormone harvested from cadavers. Fucking Vampire. I remember him coming out on Aresenio Hall (dating myself) like a dry husk of the robust dude he was in his playing days.
It's funny how people forget so fast.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D2SW5b9t30[/youtube]

The only issues I have, is due to their illegal nature, you wonder if these guys know what they are doing, and how they are doing it. Steroids and HGH are legally prescribed under doctor supervision, but you put this stuff in the hands of some hyper-competitive gym-rat muscle-head who'll exploit any edge (Bill Romanowski).

Also, it's not the right message to send to our kids, that taking a pill instead of working hard is what's going to get you to the top.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
Also, baseball is all about numbers and stats and records. The eternal, sacred numbers. Which of course have been forever ruined by the juicers.
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Yeah, that's really the bugbear with baseball. It's all about 120 years of compiled stats.

Lyle Alzado's fate certainly was a cautionary tale. On the other hand, he got to be a big star in the NFL for several years before his pathetic end. I've seen people who never got to do anything like that die just as horribly as Lyle Alzado. :D
 
Just started hearing some obnoxious ticket sale ads for the Jets.

All I got to say is: Time to pay the Piper Rex.

So Darrelle Revis is scheduled to make $1M this year - rapacity I say.

Defensive MVP. In Rex's words, best player in the league on the best team in the league. The guy that the Jets entire system is predicated on. While the rest of the league is QB driven, the Jets are CB driven. The whole show is based on Revis' shutdown ability. Frees up more guys in the front for more of Rex's crazy stunts and blitzes yadda yadda yadda because you know what happens when you put the game in Sanchez' hands. He is his team's MVP, as important as any QB is to his team. And he's not walking onto the field as a Jet for less than $15M/yr. I guarantee (he's asking for $20M!).

Time for Tannenbaum's ass to pay for the checks that Rex's mouth wrote.

Brilliant moves replacing locker room faves TJ, Leon and Faneca with mercs like Santonio Holmes and Tomlinson. Now Mangold and Harris want what they have coming too. And of course there's the sophomore coaching slump that usually follows a player's coach's initial boost. All this on a team that went .500 against teams that played their starters against them.

Jet's are going to become victims of their own perceived success.
 
*shrugs* It's the Jets, fuck 'em.

At least Rexy keeps things entertaining.

And Sanchez is certainly getting all the tools he needs. A really good receiver, an occasionally good receiver, a solid WR3, a solid TE, and a pass-catching RB who may not be able to rush anymore but can still catch the ball as a safety valve option. If the kid fails again...well...I'd hope for him he doesn't.
 
Brother None said:
At least Rexy keeps things entertaining.
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That only gets you so far in NYC, Ws are what keeps you employed. People forget that his two predecessors, Mangenius and Herm Edwards both took the Jets to the playoffs in their 1st years too, didn't last very long for either of them.

He's still got a long way to go to surpass his father's antics what with Bounty Bowl I and II, Body Bag Bowl, punching his OC in the face on the sidelines. All the shit talking. Good times.
That 4-6 defense in Chicago and Philly was a sight to behold. Those Ds were like pirates they way they bullied and pillaged NFL offenses.
Put him in the crucible of a division that is the NFC East with JJ's Cowboys, Gibbs' 'Skins and Parcells' Giants, all who won multiple SBs in that era. Those 4 teams played some hellacious fucking games in that era.

And Sanchez is certainly getting all the tools he needs...
If the kid fails again...well...I'd hope for him he doesn't.
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You can't rape fans with these PSLs during a recession and not put a winning product out on the field. That's a recipe for disaster. Things can get very ugly very fast in NYC with fans and the media.
 
The media gets positive awfully quick too. Remember when everyone was saying Sanchez was the anti-Christ and Rex Ryan was destroying the Jets in week 15?
 
Sander said:
The media gets positive awfully quick too. Remember when everyone was saying Sanchez was the anti-Christ and Rex Ryan was destroying the Jets in week 15?
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Not nearly as bad as when they were calling for Eli and Coughlin's heads halfway through the '07 season when they pulled off probably the greatest string of upsets in a playoff run.

The schadenfreude that year was particularly tasty when Tiki had to eat crow after he slagged Eli in the press all year, only to have Eli lead them to where Tiki never could. What a tool.

The thing with the Jets fans is they started to think that #1 defense carries the same weight it used to. They barely slowed Peyton Manning and his rookie receivers down. Chumps.
 
Heh, I remember the Tiki-roast. Hilarious stuff.

But yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing how some of the regular season works out. Off-season expectations are always high, but this stuff on Dez Bryant expecting to be immediately great and the Jets expecting to get to the Super Bowl are hilarious.
 
To hear De Smith say it, we may not have anything to look forward to in the immediate future anyway. I'm, not sure if this is just "tough talking union rep blowhard negotiating through the press/court of public opinion" or if this is for real, but it's not looking like either side has the sense to get this shit expedited.
ESPN radio was just saying that the Nat'l TV contract will still pay $4Billion, $4fucking billion to the owners even in the event of a lockout. I'm not sure how you get the owner's to compromise when they have that kind of leverage.
Good thing NFL players are smart with their money and don't fritter it away on frivolous shit.

Not that I care, won't YOU all feel like fools during a lockout when I'm at the Hartford Colonials game!

Honestly though, cooler heads must prevail, because they will be killing the goose that laid the golden egg. As someone who's trying to raise 2 kids and pay a mortgage, car pmts, health insurance, single income, during a recession, I have a hard time sympathizing (forget about the superstars) with a profession where the avg. salary is $700K plus bennies like all the poon-tang you can eat. Then you want me to pay thousands for a PSL which only entitles me to then buy the tickets, the over priced parking, the $8 Coors Lights. Like the NCAAs won't jump all over that void, rather see some kids playing for the passion rather than the trappings of wealth a la Jamarcus et al.
 
Eindhoven Raptors!

Cimmerian Nights said:
ESPN radio was just saying that the Nat'l TV contract will still pay $4Billion, $4fucking billion to the owners even in the event of a lockout.
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If a lockout does happen, this money would essentially be a loan and taken out of future TV contracts.
 
UniversalWolf said:
Too bad you guys never followed the Amsterdam Admirals. They had Kurt Warner at one time.
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Yeah I did. Heck, the Admirals were World Bowl Champions in the year I started watching American football, with the Kurt Kittner-led offense. Reached the next World Bowl too, with Jared Allen at QB. Got their ass handed to them then.

But they ceased soon after, the whole league. I was never a huge Admirals fan anyway, they played in the accursed ArenA. Attendance wasn't horrible, about 10k people a game (in a 40k-people stadium)

Warner's number was actually retired, I think. He's an All-AFL player and All-NFL Europe honors, and has his number retired with the Admirals and Barnstormers. I doubt they'll mean much for his HoF credentials tho :/
Regardless, he's in the Ring of Honor, together with Adam Vinatieri and a lot of no-names. Interesting how they actually used a lot of former soccer players as kickers, like Werdekke, or whatever his name was.
 
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