NFL 2010

[Cimmerian Nights]

Hey, you have your villain, I have mine.
Difference is Favre never throws his O-line under the bus.

Unlike Polian.
Wait, I thought you were hating on Peyton here? Are you now hating on Peyton because Polian threw the O-line under the bus?

Read carefully

I'm trying to be a good teammate here … let's just say we had some problems with protection.

Wow, what a great teammate and leader.

"Being a fiery leader" is what you'd be calling it if that clip showed up about Favre instead.

No, that would be your spin, I see many pissed off o-lineman because the play caller called 3 consecutive incompletions in the end zone when they felt confident to run it in.
They're kind of right. 0 for 3.
There is no clip like this of Favre, so hold onto those "If..."s. We're dealing with the known here.

Can't stand it when something you don't like is succesful?

No, I just can't stand it, period. Especially when the result is 0 for 3 and a FG.

I've heard about Favre's addiction to alcohol, his addiction to painkillers, his addiction to media coverage and his newfound love for his previous arch-nemesis.

OK, drugs and alcohol abuse is self-destructive, and a hobby close to my own heart. Having to pay hush money for tea-bagging a chick - I don't know, you tell me what that is.

I'm neither a Favre fan nor a detractor. I just think it's silly to blame him for the manner in which Vikings fan act, or John Gruden, or how Wendy Nix follows him around. I have neither the animosity nor the admiration that everyone else seems to have for him.

 

[Brother None]

OK, drugs and alcohol abuse is self-destructive, and a hobby close to my own heart. Having to pay hush money for tea-bagging a chick - I don't know, you tell me what that is.

Who gives a shit, they're not driving my kid's schoolbus, they're football players, let 'em play. I don't care if they take 'roids or have 3 kids from 4 mothers in 5 time zones.
The only reason I have interest in them is because they chase around an inflated piece of pork bladder on Sunday. When the off field antics interfere with that, then it's an issue for me.

*whistles a tune*

 

[Sander]

Read carefully

I'm trying to be a good teammate here … let's just say we had some problems with protection.

Wow, what a great teammate and leader.

Hey now that's an entirely different link. And yes, that's worse.

But with both this and the playcalling incident, Peyton seems to work just fine with his O-line.

No, I just can't stand it, period. Especially when the result is 0 for 3 and a FG.

Ah yes, because that's what Peyton's known for: not getting touchdowns.

OK, drugs and alcohol abuse is self-destructive, and a hobby close to my own heart. Having to pay hush money for tea-bagging a chick - I don't know, you tell me what that is.

Something I don't give a shit about. Just like I don't care that Favre was an addict. But you don't get to criticise Peyton Manning for something to then just give Favre a free pass for it.

I'm neither a Favre fan nor a detractor. I just think it's silly to blame him for the manner in which Vikings fan act, or John Gruden, or how Wendy Nix follows him around. I have neither the animosity nor the admiration that everyone else seems to have for him.

Yes, the media coverage is in large part to blame for the hate. But the media don't initiate the story of his ankle (which isn't even a story since he doesn't even know whether he's doing anything about it). Favre is the one who has to step to the media and get that out there.
But what the media most definitely is not to blame for is Favre's refusal to stick to any point. "Oh I'm retiring. Oh no now I'm not. Oh yes I am. Wait no. Oh yeah. Hurray I'm playing a game!"
Fuck off, make a decision and stick to it.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Cimms, you're actually playing up Brett Favre as a high-character guy over Manning. This is Brett Favre we're talking about, right?

Ask, and you shall receive.

But what the media most definitely is not to blame for is Favre's refusal to stick to any point. "Oh I'm retiring. Oh no now I'm not. Oh yes I am. Wait no. Oh yeah. Hurray I'm playing a game!"
Fuck off, make a decision and stick to it.

I think characterizing the man's whole career by the turmoil he cause in only 2 off seasons is really shortsighted. That's not what defines his career if you look at in it's entirety.
And I'm not seeing the over saturation like there was those two years now.

 

[Sander]

I think characterizing the man's whole career by the turmoil he cause in only 2 off seasons is really shortsighted. That's not what defines his career if you look at in it's entirety.

I'm not defining his entire career by it and I'm not denying him his accomplishments. I'm just saying that Brett Favre is now an annoying, waffling mediawhore.

And I'm not seeing the over saturation like there was those two years now.

That's true enough.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

This thread fizzles out whenever we find common ground, thank goodness I'm here to stoke the flames with my witty, ever-fresh Manning ridicule, huh?

No, seriously though. We need to have a Super Tecmo tournament. I will of course, thrash you all like rented mules due to my incisive breakdown of the encyclopedic playbooks. You can have Bo, Deion, Barry Sanders, Rice, Elway, LT, Bills, '9ers. I care not.
I prefer the Eagles, but I'll beat anybody with the Patriots (a 1-15 team) with b/u ironman QB Steve Grogan at the helm.
I'm on record.

Any refusal or denial on your parts is hereby taken to be an implicit acknowledgement of your girly-man like fear of my mastery of the TECMO cutback move.

 

[UniversalWolf]

You guys have no idea how glad I am I mentioned the Favre speculation train.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a non-politician manipulate the media more skillfully than this guy: the ankle surgery; the "mysterious leak" about how he told an unnamed player that he was never going to play again - all coming out right after the draft when it's too late for the Vikings to make a back-up plan... At the same time he clings to his simple, country-boy, recluse image. It's awe-inspiring.

I'm not sure what the difference is between the sports media and, say TMZ. It's the paparazzi for jocks.

Kornheiser on MNF was the personification of pain. He was so bad I couldn't watch the game without muting the sound. Actively, aggressively fingernails-on-the-chalkboard evil.

Did anyone else see Matt Millen's oafish apology for calling Ron Jaworski a polak on the air? It was really the highlight of the draft for me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWV9HFNNVzM


P.S. - For what it's worth, Wisconsin TE Garrett Graham went higher than I thought he would. Fourth round to the Texans. And I was hoping O'Brian Schofield would fall to the Packers in the fifth, but Arizona snatched him up in the fourth.

P.P.S. - Bethesda should buy TECMOBOWL and turn it into a roaming FPS.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I more offended by the PC protocol that requires Millen to apologize to a guys he's probably been friends with for 30+ years beacuse someone else took offense on Jaws' behalf.
I don't do the Millen piling on. Yes, he was an attrocious GM, but who in their right mind hires a MLB to run their franchise?

LT, say it ain't so. How come all the NYC legends of my youth have met with such terrible ends? Mike Tyson, LT, Doc. Gooden, Strawberry. What a group of recidivist fuckups.

edit: Oh LT, would that you followed your own advice.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfHOQAT0-Mk[/youtube]
Can you imagine how many whores and how much coke Tyson, LT, Gooden and Strawberry have gone through. Those guys have probably spent more on that than the GDP of some small nations.

P.P.S. - Bethesda should buy TECMOBOWL and turn it into a roaming FPS.

IIRC Tecmo did a pretty good job themselves of running the franchise into the ground which is why the two best games were the two first games.
I'm thinking Bethesda could eliminate the two biggest impediments to the instant self-gratification junkies by eliminating outdated turnbased football and defense at the same time. Have two offenses on the field at the same time with two balls. Real time run and shoot.
Or Football with Lacrosse sticks. All while staynig true to the spirit of the game of course.

 

[UniversalWolf]

I more offended by the PC protocol that requires Millen to apologize to a guys he's probably been friends with for 30+ years beacuse someone else took offense on Jaws' behalf.

Don't get me wrong, I agree. It's just that the sight of his fumbling apology and the thought that some producer obviously told him he had to do it...it's theater of the living.

 

[Sander]

Man, Tecmo - never played, heard so much about those games. I'd almost accept the challenge 'cept y'know, never played the game. Maybe if I play it a bit I'll accept the schooling.

LT's deal sounds like he ordered a prostitute, did the prostitute, then got busted because she was 16 without him knowing. I don't think he should burn for that, but chances are he will. It was never a secret the guy was sleazy, but this is just a shitty deal for the guy.

And Defensive Rookie of the Year Brian Cushing just got busted for steroids. Suspended for the first four games of the season, and looking at Merriman it's getting a lot less likely he improves next year.

Cushing on steroids:

 

[Brother None]

Hope he doesn't turn into the next Merriman.

(never played Tecmo either)

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

You knew something fishy was going on when the Texans broke .500.

No Super Tecmo? What kind of deprived childhoods did you have?
No Electric Football either I bet?
They're all inferior to the NHL Table Hockey Dad got us for Christmas that year. Bruins Vs. Blackhawks forevah!

Oh yeah, the Grandaddy of them all, how much time was pissed away in grade-school doing this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdcc_W9eI7g[/youtube]
Proving that kids, when bored enough, can contrive any diversion.
Nice goalposts, although I prefer the minimalist aesthetic of the finger goalposts, allowing that you can play the game with just 2 kids and a sheet of paper (and a table/desk).

 

[UniversalWolf]

Electric Football was hilarious.

I preferred the handheld Mattel Football I:

http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Mattel/FB.htm

 

[Brother None]

So, uhhh, Cushing huh? Still DRotY.

Honestly, makes sense from a precedence standpoint, it's how they've always dealt with druggy cheaters: just ignore the problem. Funny how that works.

AP kind of embarrassed itself by calling a revote but honestly this isn't up to them anyway, it's the NFL's problem. Let's watch Florio and Peter King rage on tho, good fun.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

it's how they've always dealt with druggy cheaters: just ignore the problem.

Who cares? I don't. Not about the integrity of a ceremonial award from the press like the DROTY. Not about Cushing's Estrogen levels. And not really all that much that happens regarding the Texans to be frank. Fucking expansion teams, Favre's been a greybeard longer than the Texans have existed.

The league doesn't care either, only insofar as it effects their image, and only then insofar as that branding can be marketed and sold to the gen. public for max. dollars. I really don't see the outcry from fans on this either (Cushing's getting a lot of attention because it would effect his eligibility for media generated honor like the DROTY). And if there's no fan outrage the league just deals with it quietly. When the fans get upset though (Vick, Pacman, Ben) - watch the axe fall - criminal charges or not! Ol' Hang 'Em High Goodell will straighten out those tattooed sidewinders and make this a safe league for moms!

Make no mistake. Justice will be served. Cushing and all juice-monkeys have a date with destiny. That destiny includes shrunken balls, bitch tits, hair loss, back acne, violent mood swings. Oh yeah, and cancerous tumors the size of baseballs.
Gee, there's a lot of smart reasons for doing cycles!
I guess Cushing is too young to remember watching Lyle Alzado's end.

Or maybe he is aware.
If he assumes the risk for what he's doing to his body (and the legal repercussions), for whatever benefit he thinks it gives him, then - No, I don't really give a shit.
If anything, I think he should really be keeping his mouth shut, he's the one inviting more negative attention and notoriety on himself and the league's affinity for pharmacological aids.
Yeah, usually it's "ignore it and it'll go away", it's amazing how often these little suspensions blow over with no resounding after-effects (like MLB and Congressional hearings). Cushing needs to be muzzled. Again, if you're going to juice, just accept the consequences - to your body, reputation, career - everything, but don't be a cheater and a whiner about it. Nobody likes a whiny cheater.

But the kid's not a total slug. He had 130 tackles or something.
How many of those can we attribute to steroids?
8%?
12%?
Nobody can say. But 'roids or not, the kid had to be there and he made the tackle 130 times. You can be both good and cheat, and cheating isn't a grantee for success either.

But really, if you're going to call Cushing a druggy cheater, then you have to be willing to admit that the NFL is a crooked league. If you're not exploring all competitive advantages in a hyper-competitive field like the NFL, you won't survive very long.

NFL really isn't about the integrity of the stats or awards. That's not why I watch it. This isn't baseball with it's precious little sanctified "holy eternal statistics".
Besides, is character really criteria for DROTY? No, it's for on the field achievement only. He could be a mass murder and still be the best rookie.

Where do people really think 300 pounders that can run 5 flat 40s, squat Volkswagens, and have a vertical leap of 4 feet come from anyway?

 

[Brother None]

Good breeding?

That said, I'll be curious to see Cushing perform. Not so much next year as in the years after. Peppers remained a physical freak after getting caught, but Merriman sure fell off the cliff when he stopped roiding up.

I'd love to see the kid vindicate himself in the years to follow, but who knows?

And yeah, it's funny how the fans in general didn't really seem to care. Yahoo!'s frontpage polls saw people backing Cushing winning the revote by some margin. Funny how that works.

It is what it is.

Today I've learned that in baseball, you can steal signs, but don't you dare juice up. In football, the exact opposite seems to be true.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Good breeding?

Ai, I'd be careful going down that road lest ye end up like Jimmy the Greek.

I'd love to see the kid vindicate himself in the years to follow, but who knows?

What's to vindicate? He made his bed, now he needs to lie in it.
What's a 4 game suspension and some bad press compared to degenerative joint disorder by 50 and heart failure by 60.

Today I've learned that in baseball, you can steal signs, but don't you dare juice up. In football, the exact opposite seems to be true.

[/quote]
Look how Pats got stripped a 1st rounder, that was brutal. Or 9ers couple times with nebulous "tampering" charges. It's obvious that the league has zero tolerance for some infractions and not others.

 

[Sander]

Good breeding?

That's a lot more likely. Only a tiny part of the population is involved in professional football, so all it means is that a tiny portion of the population is a physical freak.
Really, they come from the same place 7'0" basketball players come from.

What's to vindicate? He made his bed, now he needs to lie in it.
What's a 4 game suspension and some bad press compared to degenerative joint disorder by 50 and heart failure by 60.

Eh, it's not like football is good on your body anyway. Early onset dementia, constant pain, ex-players having trouble working or even ending up in wheelchairs.

 

[Brother None]

What's to vindicate? He made his bed, now he needs to lie in it.
What's a 4 game suspension and some bad press compared to degenerative joint disorder by 50 and heart failure by 60.

You may not care but some of us do, CN. Sports like cycling have long since been ruined for me because it's just about who takes the most drugs without being caught. I'd like to think football and football are more skill-dependent and thus less sensitive to it.

As for the long-term consequences, that's his own choice, though easy to forget. Remember the Steelers

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Good breeding?

That's a lot more likely. Only a tiny part of the population is involved in professional football, so all it means is that a tiny portion of the population is a physical freak.

It's not because of size, because when they get recruited from the HSs and Unis it's production and potential. Only a few positions are for freaks. You're talking center in the NBA, or NTs OLs, those are the positions that demand freaks. The average sized American male would easily fill the role height/weight wise of a NBA point guard or a NFL CB (not fitness wise obv.). Best NBA players are 6" point guards, not 7" gawky uncoordinated doofs.
With the aid of roids, diet and exercise you could take the avg. HS LB and develop him physically into a Cushing or even better, a Bill Romanowski.
There's a lot more to being a good LB than strength though. It certainly helps to shed lineman.

Eh, it's not like football is good on your body anyway. Early onset dementia, constant pain, ex-players having trouble working or even ending up in wheelchairs.

So adding steroids to the mix is an issue of degree? If diminished health and longevity is a given, what's another 5 years off your life for DROTY honors, or the Pro-Bowl, or that extra 200 yards you need to hit bonus?

You may not care but some of us do, CN. Sports like cycling have long since been ruined for me because it's just about who takes the most drugs without being caught. I'd like to think football and football are more skill-dependent and thus less sensitive to it.

I can respect that, but a race is a measurable contest with the outcome being concrete, definable metric of success. It's the be all, end all of a race. You compromise that and what else is there?
Football isn't about records or awards to the same degree.
How does one compare Jim Brown's 12 games seasons, to OJ's 14 and Barry Sanders' 16. And soon we'll have 17 or more.
You can't compare, besides, who cares? It's an academic discussion.
A race is all about one simple statistic, it's the raison d'etre of the sport. Football isn't about getting trophies from the press or rushing "titles" or statistics (recent FF popularity notwithstanding).

Remember the Steelers

The 70s Steelers didn't cheat though. The NFL didn't have a steroid policy until '87.
And 'roids or no, those teams still had to go out there and beat everyone in front of them, which they did.
I don't think it's fair to pile on the Steelers because they were doing what everyone else did and won. And I doubt the Bradshaws and Lamberts were juicing.
Some cheaters still can't win, these are the ultimate losers.