NFL 2011

[DammitBoy]

Gronk doesn't play and manning the lesser gets another undeserved superbowl ring.

How much luck does that water-headed baby/tard have?

 

[Brother None]

I dunno about luck. He played a decent game last time. He certainly has a better team surrounding him than his older brother ever had, though.

he'll play, it's just a question of how well, and I'm not too worried about it.

Why not? I know he'll play but that doesn't tell us much, and he's a very important players both as a pass-blocked and pass-catcher. Hernandez can cover for him as a pass-catcher but losing him against the Giants pass rush would hurt.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Vollmer should be back though, which frees Solder up to be deployed more creatively, like blocking TE. I think it's realistic to expect Gronk's ankle to react like Freeney's in his SB, good for a half or so, then tighten up. They do run some 3 TE sets too though. Given Vrabel's SB record, I wouldn't be surprised to see Solder get one thrown his way in the red area, he was a TE originally. Been waiting all year for that.
I would not sleep on the Patriot's o-line or run game. Brady is not going to be sitting back there waiting for Moss to get separation this time, and there are plenty of counters for overaggressive passrushers. You get 4 DEs on the field and I expect a heavy dose of screens, draws, traps, whams etc.

Eli will get 300+, easily. But you have to be really efficient in points scored:TOP if you really want to torch that defense and win. Tracy White and Sergio Brown aren't going to be out there in coverage this time either.

 

[Brother None]

Vollmer should be back though, which frees Solder up to be deployed more creatively, like blocking TE.

That's not much of an answer though. The whole strength of a blocking TE like Gronk is that he *doesn't* just stay back to block the entire play, instead he can chip and release, which is a major factor. Hell, during the Ravens game he would chip Suggs to the ground and then release into his route. That's what makes him so valuable, and not so easily replaced by using max protection schemes.

Apropos, the CLink stadium people are awesome (pay no mind to the shitty music, this is still amazing)

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[eom]

I dunno about luck. He played a decent game last time. He certainly has a better team surrounding him than his older brother ever had, though.

he'll play, it's just a question of how well, and I'm not too worried about it.

Why not?

Because he's one guy out of 45 guys.

Gronk throwing suggs to the ground was pretty awesome, though

 

[Brother None]

Because he's one guy out of 45 guys.

Oh yeah, that's what I said when Tom Brady went down a few years back to.

Frith in the sky, eom, could you stop trolling? You can not be this inane.

 

[eom]

Because he's one guy out of 45 guys.

Oh yeah, that's what I said when Tom Brady went down a few years back to.

Frith in the sky, eom, could you stop trolling? You can not be this inane.

yeah, and how many games did they win?

I'd say gronk has somewhat less impact than tom brady, and they won a few games before they ever drafted him.

you just focus on the negative, but I look at the positive -- like the guys who were out during the year that will hopefully contribute this weekend.
anyway, injuries are part of football -- you gotta roll with who you get out there.

maybe some teams fill their rosters with a bunch of scrubs, but I have faith in everybody that makes the pats team.
you see guys come in and contribute every year that you probably never even heard of.

that's something called badass coaching.
there's only about a half dozen players left from belichick's last superbowl team a few years ago.

 

[Brother None]

Not enough games, if I recall correctl.

And yeah... None of which changes that after Brady, Gronk is probably the most valuable player you have on offense. I know you're a fan, but that doesn't mean you can only think as fan. Vagueries and catch-all statements about "next player up" and "bunch of scrubs" don't really change that. And if we're talking about guys who were out and now in, the Giants got a hell of a leg up over the last time you two met, in the regular season.

Cosell does a good job of explaining why having Gronk or not having Gronk changes a big part of the dynamic of the Pats O vs the Giants front four. In fact, without Gronk, you're basically stuck with single-TE sets, even if you go max protect throughout, and that'd be pretty reminiscent of the previous SB with these two teams.

I don't get it. Gronk and Gronk's health being a huge factor is blindingly obvious to anyone who understands why having a TE that can inline block and receive as well as he can completely shifts how defenses have to adjust to the offense. Why even bother denying it?

And why do we keep letting Patriots fans ruin this thread? Is it like a microcosm of America? Maybe.

 

[eom]

ok, if it will make you feel better I'm gonna cry about it tonight for a couple hours.

 

[Brother None]

Thanks.

I wish you guys wouldn't make it so hard for me to root for the Patriots. I hate the fucking Giants.

 

[eom]

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[DammitBoy]

Thanks.

I wish you guys wouldn't make it so hard for me to root for the Patriots. I hate the fucking Giants.

Me too - maybe we've beaten enough of the euro-boy out of you over the years?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I've never really hated the Giants, but it's kind of lame seeing these teams that muddle their way through the regular season, win a shit division by default, and get hot at the right time. Then to be smug about it...
Devalues the regular season. The 4 division conferences doesn't help.

Vollmer should be back though, which frees Solder up to be deployed more creatively, like blocking TE.

That's not much of an answer though. The whole strength of a blocking TE like Gronk is that he *doesn't* just stay back to block the entire play, instead he can chip and release, which is a major factor. Hell, during the Ravens game he would chip Suggs to the ground and then release into his route. That's what makes him so valuable, and not so easily replaced by using max protection schemes.

Bigger threat to Brady's game is the inside rush, he like to step up into a clean pocket and so much of his game now is underneath shit inside the hashes. I don't know who's more opponent specific scheme-wise than the Patriots, and the Giants run a 4-3 unlike the Ravens. I'd be more concerned about Tuck chipping Gronk when he releases.
I think the Patriots lines are going to make a good a showing of themselves. This game will be won and lost in the phonebooth by guys like Waters, Mankins and Wilfork. Both teams have really vulnerable LBs and DBs.


Giants' bandwagon is getting pretty crowded...

 

[eom]

I've never really hated the Giants, but it's kind of lame seeing these teams that muddle their way through the regular season, win a shit division by default, and get hot at the right time. Then to be smug about it...
Devalues the regular season. The 4 division conferences doesn't help.

.

ok, let's stop this kind of nonsense right now.
the giants aren't some random halfass team that muddled through anything and were handed their division.
they won 9 games --- which is enough to make the playoffs most years.......except 2008........

they already beat the patriots this year, destroyed an atlanta team that everybody had been ballwashing, beat the presumptive superbowl winner IN green bay, as well as what was considered a second of the big 3 nfc teams IN sf.

you can give them a tiny little bit of credit.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I do, they probably have more talent than the Patriots. I don't get why they are 3 point underdogs when they already beat the Pats at home. That said, they are probably the first SB team with a negative point differential. I live in the tri-state area and watch all the Giants games, Seattle, Redskins, this 5 game win streak starts with a .500 record and is the result of blocked FGs, dropped Romo and Rodgers passes, multiple punts muffs by SF. That's not to say the Patriots aren't lucky to be here either. Both deserve to be here.

I'm not being anti-Giants, I'm just not enamored with the parity era by-product of SB teams like the recent Cards, Steelers, Giants and Packers that do fuck all in the regular season and 'catch fire' at the end. '01 Pats notwithstanding.

 

[eom]

I do, they probably have more talent than the Patriots. I don't get why they are 3 point underdogs when they already beat the Pats at home. That said, they are probably the first SB team with a negative point differential. I live in the tri-state area and watch all the Giants games, Seattle, Redskins, this 5 game win streak starts with a .500 record and is the result of blocked FGs, dropped Romo and Rodgers passes, multiple punts muffs by SF. That's not to say the Patriots aren't lucky to be here either. Both deserve to be here.

I'm not being anti-Giants, I'm just not enamored with the parity era by-product of SB teams like the recent Cards, Steelers, Giants and Packers that do fuck all in the regular season and 'catch fire' at the end. '01 Pats notwithstanding.

all I'm saying is you're being kind of retarded with this characterization of the giants as some .500 team that got 'lucky'.
on the surface of it, there was pretty much universal agreement that the top of the nfc consisted of 3 teams -- green bay, new orleans, and san fran.

you say they were basically a .500 team that won a shitty division by default, yet 6 of their 7 losses were made up of losses to those big 3 nfc elite teams, and 3 losses in this so called 'shitty' division.

for some reason they don't get any credit for their wins --- just getting 'hot', but get full credit for losses by calling them a .500 team that got hot.

if all that matters are the wins that get strung together in some arbitrary short stretch, they weren't a .500 team --- they were a 6-2 team that hit a tough stretch, that 6th win being against this pats team that they face in the superbowl.
they then lost 4 straight games, which included losses to all 3 nfc elite teams -- san fran by a score, and what ended up being a 15 win superbowl darling green bay packers in the final minute.

they reversed both those close losses with close wins in the playoffs, while tossing in an ass stomping of atlanta.
you characterize their losses as losses, but the wins hinging on some lucky play -- what about all the other plays during the game that let them take advantage of that one play?

jpp blocking a kick is called making an awesome play -- not winning the lottery.

edit: and by 'close win' at green bay I'm playing along with opinion that they won via lucky breaks -- not by the final score, which was certainly not even close.

 

[UniversalWolf]

In a radio interview NIck Collins said he expects to be medically cleared to play again.

Good news for the Pack. Real good.

 

[eom]

Not enough games, if I recall correctl.

.

btw, they won enough games that year, just not the right ones.

2 afc teams made the playoffs with 11 wins.

 

[Sander]

Not enough games, if I recall correctl.

.

btw, they won enough games that year, just not the right ones.

2 afc teams made the playoffs with 11 wins.

0 AFC teams won the Super Bowl.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Steelers won it that year. Moot point anyway, no way the Pats make a playoff run with Cassell that year anyway.

Pretty good year for the Pats despite last night. I think they overreached their talent level. Really need to pick up a legit wideout and safety this offseason.