I always viewed the Independent ending as open in what exactly they meant by "Independent". The Courier is in a position where the fate of an "Independent" Vegas is determinant on what you want. The Courier could just fuck off and have Vegas try and take care of itself (muh anarchy) or (and what my Courier would do) rule New Vegas himself, Independent in the sense that neither the NCR nor the Legion gain control of it and it becomes it's own nation state.
NMA Podcast Round 6 - Nuka World
- Thread starter RangerBoo
- Start date
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Then that really isn't "Independent" now is it. You become the leader and rule Vegas instead of having House, NCR or Legion do it. That is another problem I have with many of the Independent player is that many of them are like "Fuck NCR, House and Legion! Anarchy forever! We are the rulers of Vegas now!"
The irony kinda files over their heads.
It is for the Courier who is Independent from the NCR, Legion and House. And it is Independence from the other big players in the wasteland like the Legion and NCR. It's basically what Mr. House would have done but with the Courier in charge instead. New Vegas remains an independent entity from the NCR or the Legion.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Obviously, the benefit of the Independent ending is it's whatever you want to be.
In practical, non-romantic terms, the best the Courier can achieve is that they're a person with a good reputation in NCR, Boomers, and many of the smaller surrounding settlements. They might have access to super-science like the Big Empty and Sierra Madre (or the Brotherhood of Steel but that has their own issues) but they probably are less talented than Mister House in terms of building infrastructure and an economic basis.
An Independent ending with a Good Karma ending is pretty much The Mojave as it was before but a little friendlier and no Legion or NCR.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Really? Because the locals are anything but friendly and are quite xenophobic and isolationist. North Vegas for example. The locals haven't really made any advancement in the waste what so ever. It was the NCR and the Followers that got the Dam up and running and it was House who brought in a economy to Vegas. In the Independent ending, the Followers end up chewing more then what they can sallow and its kinda implied that the locals would be lost without the Followers and the Kings leadership. Hell, even the Kings still discriminate against NCR citizens. It is laughable to believe that things were sunshine and roses before any of these other factions came into play in the Mojave and after.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
That's why it's the "Independent" ending versus the "Courier Rules" ending. The thing which is important to remember about the Mojave is it doesn't WANT to be part of NCR. There's no real clamoring by anyone to join the Bear and everyone generally reacts to them as unwanted interlopers. Because they are. Respecting that independence and the right to be left to their own devices is basically the point of that ending,
Albeit, New Vegas and probably Freeside has got no choice but to obey the Courier if they force it.
About the only things which the Courier brings to the matter are:
* They have House's former resources
* They have Securitrons to protect against Caesar (or NCR)
* They have Helios powering Freeside.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
I could really care less about that. I weigh my decision on whoever is more worthy and what they have done to show their worth. From what I have gathered, the locals haven't really done anything to prove that they are worthy of having the Mojave for themselves. They leech off the NCR for protection and rely heavily on the Followers for support. That is not to say that I don't understand why people go the Independent route but I am not one to glorify the locals and their laziness either.
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CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
NCR has no right to steal the land and homes of people who are living there just because they might do something better with it. As for the Followers, they're in the Mojave because NCR hates them and they freely give their help to the people of the Mojave. Generally, I view NCR as nonfunctional and dooming itself with its expansionism and think the Mojave is better off as an independent smaller sttae.
Then again, I see NCR as a betrayal of Aradesh's ideals.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
And the locals have no right to leech off the NCR for protection and not expect there to be consequences. Also, never mind the fact that the Followers have their share of fuck ups. Mainly from people taking advantaged of their kindness and naivety which the Followers allow to happen and not do anything about. The Great Khan and Fiend drug trade was started because the Khans took advantaged of the Followers kindness using their new found knowledge to create chems and give them to the Fiends who have been a bane to both the NCR and locals. And of course you have the Legion and really what more can I say about them. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and sadly the Followers seem to be a self-fulling prophecy of that statement.
cordelionreaver
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
I am reminded of a quote from SWTOR. "They want what children want - unlimited freedom without responsibility"
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Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
It's not that the NCR hates them, rather they see the Followers as anarchists.
@Vergil: How about you do something useful instead of spamming semi-related pictures into threads and, dunno, die of erotic autoasphyxiation or something?
My apologies, I wasn't aware posting two pictures in one thread was spamming the website.
It was more a jab at your general modus operandi, which is mostly posting boring attempts at sarcasm while contributing exactly nothing. It's getting kinda old.
SarcasticGoodGuy
*R O T T E N*
Haha rekt Vergil
wait...
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
This is a very interesting perception of the event and fits the narratice of NCR as a metaphor for US military policy. Hoover Dam's water and electricity=Oil if you will. NCR is securing a strategic resource for themselves and also their borders against a military threat to them (Caesar's Legion). The locals really have very little to do with why NCR is in the region. They aren't protecting any settlements but their own, for example, and the only charity work they're doing is in Freeside.
Would the Mojave be overrun by Caesar's Legion without NCR? Certainly, but I'm not sure that gives them a pass. NCR only becomes a net good for the locals if the PCs involve themselves.
And I LIKE NCR.
Yeah, screw the Legion. For all of Mister House's good qualities, Vegas would have been annihilated without NCR to take the brunt of the fighting.
I wish there had been more lines to tell Kreia off. I always have felt the most humorous element about her was the majority of her concerns about helping others and the Force stem from someone who pathologically obsessed with control.
Well, they kind of are.
Back to Nuka World
I regret we didn't get to discuss a few things during the podcast even though it was really-really enjoyable throughout.
* Redeye and his songs
* The Grandchester Mystery Mansion
* Playing as the "Good" Raider
* Preston Garvey's betrayal
But it was, overall, a very thorough podcast.
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Well I have more likes than I do messages so I must be doing something right.
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Well, they kind of are.
They're apolitical for the most part. Given their stance on sharing knowledge and education, they probably step on toes a lot.