Norwegian Scientists Disprove God

*sigh* Now you're being a bit silly, Prez, the fact that it hasn't been proven that an afterlife exists, doesn't mean that it can't exist, it just means that no evidence has been found yet.

As for the existance of right and wrong, you can't prove that, because it's based on morals, and the workings of the brain are mostly unknown to current science.(Not what it's base principles are, but how they produce thought and behavior and such.)
 
so let me get this straight Sander. Believing is God is stupid, becuase God's existance hasn't been proven yet. But believing in an afterife is ok because the existance of an afterlife has not been Disproven.

As for the existance of right and wrong, you can't prove that, because it's based on morals
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So how did morals come about?
 
I never said that god didn't exist, you're confusing me with other people :P I'm no christian, but I'm not saying that belief is silly, or that god can't exist.

See, that's the entire problem, Prez. There might be some higher entity fixing things up, and there might not be. Perhaps we all came to be from nothing(Yes, that is a serious and even scientifically very correct theory), becasue when there was nothing, there were no laws, so anything could happen. And accidentally, we happened. There are a lot of different theories, some taking god into account, and others not taking him into account. I don't know what the right one is, and neither do you. Perhaps morals are just an accidental side-effect of the way brains work, or an evolutionary thing, put in there to protect the species(to stop people from killing eachother etc.), perhaps morals don't exist automatically and need to be taught. I don't know, and frankly, I don't think ANYONE knows.
 
«ºTone Caponeº» said:
Do you believe there is intelligent life out there that is not from earth? If your answer is yes, whether or not you admit it, you are exercising faith in something that has not been seen or proven either way.
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You know, Tone, there are few athiests still around that actually say "I believe in nothing", like Nihilists ("We believe in nothing, Lebowski!"), so your question is kind of pointless.

The larger chunk of athiests these days are agnosto-athiests (which is not the same as agnostic) and basically believe that while anything proven by science is true, there can be truths outside of science as well, such as God, and life from another planet.

So how did morals come about?
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A typical Christian discussion. What came first, society (atheist belief) or the rules (Christian belief)

According to the Christians, God gives us rules upon which we can base society.

According to atheists, society necessitates rules which we then make ourselves (as in morals)

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

First of all, ive noticed a lot of what i call "tough guy" approach to death. Sure you feel comfortable dying a long time from now... but what would you be thinking say if you were on an airplane going down. You know you have only minute or so left on earth, what would you be thinking? isnt it sad to think that you could die any moment and your entire life would be meaningless? Tommarrow, driving to work you could get T-Boned by a semi and be dead on impact.
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How exactly would it do me good to think about it now?

I was once dating a girl that was terrified of death, as in constantly. She wasn't a Christian (she was Wiccan), so she had little consolation in religion, and there was little consolation I could offer her.

How exactly does it do anyone any good to constantly think about the fact there might be nothing after life?

I think the large monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) have a pretty good set of morals. I adhere to most of these with the exception of rules like "you shall worship only God" etc. etc. I think God would forgive me that slight, if he did exist, and if he doesn't, well...I'll go poof. I'm not changing my entire life around just on the odd-chance I could or could not go poof.
 
Gwydion said:
In other words, you believe what you want and all that talk of "evidence" was just pucky.
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I believe that's not what I said, re-read a few times and if you want a simpler-worded explanation so that you might understand I can write one.

Tone_Cap One said:
JJ86, I was once in your boat. I had a whole website dedicated to the "fallacy of religion". There are plenty of good arguements either way. But my question to you is, have you ever looked for God, not in a sense to prove that He exists, but as a guide? Have you ever gone to church with an open mind?

Take this link for what it is worth to you
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Jesus, Hallelujah!! Tone, you have saved me from the perpetual damnation of nothingness!! I really don't know how empty my future would have been without the love and eternal blindness of the lord!

Really I am not out to turn this into a hellfire and damnation balls-to-the-wall argument to end all arguments. I have said what I said and that is all - take it how you'd like. Good night and pleasant dreams!
 
Sander said:
This is getting very interesting, let me give you my little theory on god and religion.

I think, that god as he is given andworshipped within the Christian belief, and every other belief, doesn't exist. I've found that there are some contradictions within that church, not to mention that most christians don't even behave like a christian should according to the bible.
I think that there IS something out there, but what that something is, I do not know. I am a supporter of many sciences, but I am also a supporter of the belief that there is some kind of entity out there. And I've also found that there is in no way any kind of scientific evidence that would disprove the existance of such a god.

I'd also have to concur with the thought about dimensions. Perhaps that is where a god exists, perhaps that is where a higher form of life exists, and perhaps not. IN fact, I don't think there's any way of kowing, I don't think that there's actually much point in thinking about these things....
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Hehe, welcome to the Church of Agnosticism, Sander. Well, actually, there isn't a church for people like us. :) The problem with religion is that one person finds something that he believes in, and then he begins to form a doctrine based around his experience. He then passes that doctrine down to other people who have not shared his experiences, but are now taught to believe what he believed. Because of this, religions have sort of become a "God Factory" in which you are processed and stamped according to the religion you are raised in.

It's good to see that people have questions. To me, that says that you are seeking true answers to the deepest philosophical questions which have plagued mankind. I think it's far too easy to find a "religion" that has all the answers but nothing to back it up than search endlessly for answers with you may not ever find in your lifetime.
 
Old School Role-Player said:
It's good to see that people have questions. To me, that says that you are seeking true answers to the deepest philosophical questions which have plagued mankind. I think it's far too easy to find a "religion" that has all the answers but nothing to back it up than search endlessly for answers with you may not ever find in your lifetime.
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Well, it is easy, but that doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

Religion is comfortable, though, it gives you a set of morals, it tells you what to do and when, etc. etc. This is wy Marx called it the opium of the people...

That said, the path of asking-questions-till-you-die AKA agnosticism somehow, to me, makes more sense than the whole "my religion is and can be the only correct one, the rest of you burn in hell"-train of thought.
 
Haha, I agree with Kharn here, however, religion also serves the purpose of comforting people who need comforting, providing them with a "group-feeling".

I'd also have to say that I am an agnost, and that my main....despising of Churches and organised religions, is that there are so many rules, so many uselessnesses(do you really think god would be pissed off if you didn't go to a mass once a week?), and also hipocrisy of those churches. But I won't say more than this, if you want to hear why I think that way, go ahead and ask, but I'll not unnecesarily piss the religious people off.
 
What if "the truth" is that the christians are right and we will all burn in fiery lake when the judgement day will come, whether we like it or not?

Unless your definition of truth is "something that has nothing to do with a religion".
 
APTYP said:
What if "the truth" is that the christians are right and we will all burn in fiery lake when the judgement day will come, whether we like it or not?
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How exactly would that effect anything, seeing as how we can't be sure the muslims are right instead of the christians?

And becoming religious just because you fear there might be a good that might punish you is weak. So weak, I think God would just laugh in your face and say "You're going to hell, sonny"
 
If that is the case, then everyone in the entire world is fucked. There isn't a single person who follows all of the requirements of the current christian(catholic, mailny) religion.
 
Sander said:
Haha, I agree with Kharn here, however, religion also serves the purpose of comforting people who need comforting, providing them with a "group-feeling".

I'd also have to say that I am an agnost, and that my main....despising of Churches and organised religions, is that there are so many rules, so many uselessnesses(do you really think god would be pissed off if you didn't go to a mass once a week?), and also hipocrisy of those churches. But I won't say more than this, if you want to hear why I think that way, go ahead and ask, but I'll not unnecesarily piss the religious people off.
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Agree with Kharn? Why not agree with me? I brought it up first. You're not still mad about the freedom discussion, eh? ;)

I'm kidding. Anyway, fear is yet another way to control the people. It's a lot easier to say, "If you don't do this, you'll be punished." than to say, "This is a more enlightened path to pursue in your quest to find your place within the universe." It's just like was mentioned in the laws and society discussion (err, the RIAA discussion, technically), that people do not always respond to morality, they respond to consequences. Instead of saying "This is moral, because it is good for society," it's much easier to say, "This is moral, because God punishes those who disobey."

All of that stuff about eternal damnation is man-made anyway. Ever notice how there is nothing stated on the punishments for breaking the 10 commandments? So God gave us the laws, but he didn't give us the consequences? I guess that means some dude's going to post here, "You burn in hell--that's the punishment," but in reality, that's just what someone thinks will happen. Hmm...so how do we know if we're right?
 
And this time I agree with OSRP ;)

I remember reading somehwere that all of that hell-stuff was actually made up in the middle ages, and wasn't part of the original bible.

That, by the way, is also something I find very weird, hell, why would god do that? And I'm going to punch the first guy saying "God's ways are mysterious" or something of that meaning :P

As well as that, most Christians won't go to heaven, because they were never baptised when they believed....MUAHAHAHAHAHA. Baptism doesn't count if you're a small child who doesn't know what it stands for, read the bible, I have no idea where it stands, but the official bible study website does....
 
Well, one concession which I give is that religion is a great way to teach people morals who otherwise would not understand them. Jesus was a great role model, and I wish that all people in the world (Christians included--who some seem to have the *least* in common with him) would live up to his example. Luckily, some people have the inherent understanding that morality should be dictated by your conscience--if you have one--because it's the best way for mankind to live with one another and not because of some obscure punishment. :)
 
Sander said:
That, by the way, is also something I find very weird, hell, why would god do that? And I'm going to punch the first guy saying "God's ways are mysterious" or something of that meaning :P
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Actually, this always made sense to me.

Try explaining to a 10-year old why his father does what he does. And that's just a slight age-difference, as opposed to 0-100 vs. Eternal when you're talking Man-God.

It makes sense that human beings can't understand what God is doing, and people that try to do it by saying stuff like "Look at nature, it looks beautiful in the big picture, but if you look closer you see strife" should be shot. The fact is, if there is a God, he's too far beyond us to understand.

Lewis Carroll wrote a good paragraph or two on the subject in Bruno & Sylvie. A Good Christian, that man, with a good head on his shoulders.
 
So you aren't calling what you've see, you're calling what you don't see. Makes perfect sense. Or something.
 
Calling it as I see it is a phrase, not necessarily physically observing something.

It's how I "see" it, as in understand, comprehend, etc.

When I see proof, that is unmistakable, visible evidence of God's existance, I'll put on a big pope hat and dance the macarena.
 
Ghetto Goose said:
Calling it as I see it is a phrase, not necessarily physically observing something.

It's how I "see" it, as in understand, comprehend, etc.

When I see proof, that is unmistakable, visible evidence of God's existance, I'll put on a big pope hat and dance the macarena.
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Ah... But who desides what is good evidence? Why, you will, of course. So what it really boils down to is you won't believe in God until you decide to believe in God.
 
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