Oblivion out today

[keyser Soeze]

http://www.passthepress.com/?p=245

Bethesda Responds To Add-On Backlash
Shawn Andrich - April 4th, 2006

Since Bethesda released a horse armor add-on for Oblivion there has been some outcry from gamers unaccustomed to the Oblivion developer charging for new content. I had a quick chat with PR man Pete Hines about the issue, we discuss how the add-ons are made, when the next ones will come out and more.

Press Pass: Oblivion is a victim of its own success in many ways, every move you guys make is going to be scrutinized. Do you think it’s because few games have tried this model for pay-for-addons in the next-gen market and Oblivion is the first high profile game to do it?

Pete Hines: I would imagine it’s exactly it. Lots of people have done themes, so nobody flinches when we put out a theme for 150 points. They download it like crazy, but nobody else is doing premium content like this, so we’re out front on it.

Press Pass: I would think people are used to the Morrowind style of releases from you guys. Small add-ins for free and full expansions.

Pete Hines: Perhaps, but I think once folks see the full list of things we’re doing and not just this first one, they’ll understand we’re trying to do more than last time.

Press Pass: Have they gotten more expensive to produce?

Pete Hines: Definitely more time put in by our developers.

Press Pass: Compared to say, the Entertainers plug-in for Morrowind?

Pete Hines: We don’t look at them individually, we look at them as a whole and what kind of manpower we have to commit to them.

Press Pass: So you have a group of people dedicated to the add-on content?

Pete Hines: We have people dedicated to it, sure. Everyone has to be working on something, we have folks who have been spending a lot of time on these since we finished the game.

Press Pass: Like the next two you have listed, Orrery and Wizard’s Tower. Any idea what kind of release schedule you’re on for them? The official page has both listed as “Coming Soon”

Pete Hines: They’re still being finished and tested, so hopefully one next week and one the week after, if everything goes right. They have to go through the same QA cycle as the game itself.

Press Pass: That’s pretty quick.

Pete Hines: Well, we finished the game almost two months ago at this stage, so we’ve been on them for a while.

Press Pass: Are these in lieu of releasing full expansions, or in addition to them?

Pete Hines: This has nothing to do with what we might or might not do with an expansion.

Press Pass: Damn, almost had you there. Thanks for answering our questions!

They download it like crazy, but nobody else is doing premium content like this, so we’re out front on it.

Ehm so the horse armour that would take a desent modder 1 day to make is "premium contet" ??

And the the next mod is allready out there ( some wizard tower ). But who would like to get a better mod for less cash, i have no clue

 

[taxacaria]

Pete Hines: Well, we finished the game almost two months ago at this stage, so we’ve been on them for a while.

finished? ROFL
It's still in developement - to be honest.
Modders are working hard on user made patches for free - and meanwhile Beth is developing downloadable ripoff-content to commercialize the modding scenery.

 

[Roshambo]

This ought to be fun to translate from PR speek.

Press Pass: Oblivion is a victim of its own success in many ways, every move you guys make is going to be scrutinized. Do you think it’s because few games have tried this model for pay-for-addons in the next-gen market and Oblivion is the first high profile game to do it?

Pete Hines: I would imagine it’s exactly it. Lots of people have done themes, so nobody flinches when we put out a theme for 150 points. They download it like crazy, but nobody else is doing premium content like this, so we’re out front on it.

Except that in the CRPG industry, not many have been so FUCKING STUPID to sell a minor thing for so much.

Press Pass: I would think people are used to the Morrowind style of releases from you guys. Small add-ins for free and full expansions.

Pete Hines: Perhaps, but I think once folks see the full list of things we’re doing and not just this first one, they’ll understand we’re trying to do more than last time.

And then charge you for it. Yes, we know, Pete.

Press Pass: Have they gotten more expensive to produce?

Pete Hines: Definitely more time put in by our developers.

What, you mean alongside the rest of the non-existent work they supposedly did for what? 4 years? Nobody QA'd, and obviously the programmers were coding without playing what they were compiling.

Press Pass: Compared to say, the Entertainers plug-in for Morrowind?

Pete Hines: We don’t look at them individually, we look at them as a whole and what kind of manpower we have to commit to them.

And, for how much we rake in, see how much we can charge for as little work as possible.

Press Pass: So you have a group of people dedicated to the add-on content?

Pete Hines: We have people dedicated to it, sure. Everyone has to be working on something, we have folks who have been spending a lot of time on these since we finished the game.

Instead of, say, more important things like...oh, wait, the modders are already making your technical patches long before you people can be arsed to even acknowledge half of these problems.

Press Pass: Like the next two you have listed, Orrery and Wizard’s Tower. Any idea what kind of release schedule you’re on for them? The official page has both listed as “Coming Soon”

Pete Hines: They’re still being finished and tested, so hopefully one next week and one the week after, if everything goes right. They have to go through the same QA cycle as the game itself.

Translation: We're still making them to match with the hype and reason to charge that much.

Also, about the QA...this isn't the QA team you're looking for. Oh, wait, wrong company.

Press Pass: That’s pretty quick.

Pete Hines: Well, we finished the game almost two months ago at this stage, so we’ve been on them for a while.

Versus, say, work on important things like SUPPORT for technical flaws in the game that you yet again rely on modders to do for you.

Press Pass: Are these in lieu of releasing full expansions, or in addition to them?

Pete Hines: This has nothing to do with what we might or might not do with an expansion.

See, the stupidity in the marketing idea is this. 1 hack artist makes a model, for about a week's worth of salary, and it's paid for and downloaded about a few thousand times.

Except...why should I pay something that the modders provide for FREE, especially when they can do a better job of making the game playable than the company themselves? Really, of anyone, BioWare and Bethesda share this distinct honor.

Press Pass: Damn, almost had you there. Thanks for answering our questions!

Wow, you almost showed some spine and signs of intelligence. Come again for the next mindless pandering to your almightyness.

 

[Briosafreak]

This review from AG.ru has some valid points:

Enemy scaling system is utterly absurd. Suppose you spend a night in an inn, get several level-ups at once, allocate the precious stat points, and leave for the forest... only to find out that the bandits, only yesterday dressed up in rags, now are fully equipped with shiny chainmails and magic bows, and the wolves fled the forest, making way for the fearsome bears. Forget about the "Can't beat 'em? Try again later." principle from games like Baldur's Gate and Gothic. Convenient fast travel instantly takes you to any location known to you, but what's the point when both the perils and treasures are perfectly identical, and all the enemies scale up with you? There is no better way of killing the exploration urge.

Even worse, the game does not take notice of the way you develop your avatar. The transparency of the character system and the quickly-increasing non-combat skills (i.e., athletics, acrobatics, stealth) effectively eliminate diplomat character choice... unless you exploit the Achilles' heel of the game: sleep. That's right -- abandoning the cozy bed and, therefore, the level-ups, effectively stops the whole "arms race", but at the same time you retain the ability to raise your skills, indirectly doing that which Bethesda is so fond of - dumbing down everyone around you, making a story walkthrough so very pleasant and relaxing. Cheating, you say? No. It's a feature, just as the retarded "Persuade a stranger by sequentially threatening, telling jokes, flattering and bragging", or the "Auto-Attempt" button relieving you from all the trouble with lockpicking.

The Persuasion mini game is too ridiculous to be true, and more than everything else shows this is an action adventure game with arcade elements, japanese style, disguised as an epic RPG.

I could find some interest in the almost deserted streets of the imperial city if i didn´t saw all of that better crafted in Gothic2. In Gothic the world seemed alive, with all the IA limitations, in here i just see the limitations...

Maybe it's me, maybe i should try to play the game in another way, but until now i'm not seeing what's so hot and new about everything in Oblivion, and the idea of a Fallout3 game in this mold is actually making me a sad panda...

Well we will be able to REALLY pay for hookers on Fallout3, through the payed d/l system Bethesda has, that will be interesting

 

[taxacaria]

The Persuasion mini game is too ridiculous to be true, and more than everything else shows this is an action adventure game with arcade elements, japanese style, disguised as an epic RPG.

It is in the game to satisfy the needs of console kiddies.
And so is the lockpicking miniplay, too.
The game play time of >100 hours must have a reason.
Here are the reasons : >1000 containers to pick and about 1500 NPCs to play diplomatics by using these teeny-like minigames.
Dialogue study seemes too much brain effort for the target group of this 'RPG'.
And there is a technically limit to text length : 38 characters.
So topic-clicking is the only dialogue option at all.

I could find some interest in the almost deserted streets of the imperial city ...

The sterile boring streets of IC are populated with their cloned NPCs. But all of the NPC have the same age, same height, same stature - because there is only one mesh for all humanoid bodys in the game. There are no thick or thin people, there are no childs, no old people. Only the faces are different, but they are ugly styled.
Therefore the cities become unreal and incredible.

 

[Wooz]

same age, same height, same stature - because there is only one mesh for all humanoid bodys in the game. There are no thick or thin people, there are no childs, no old people. Only the faces are different, but they are ugly styled.

That sounds like Germany.

 

[SimpleMinded]

Press Pass: Oblivion is a victim of its own success in many ways, every move you guys make is going to be scrutinized. Do you think it’s because few games have tried this model for pay-for-addons in the next-gen market and Oblivion is the first high profile game to do it?

I'm sorry but... am I the only one who reads that question and feels like the interviewer is kissing the toilet Bethesda shits on? What was the point of asking his question when he gave Pete an answer to it in the same breath. Why not ask a real question like "how can you justify 2.00-2.50 (for consoles) for people to put armor on their horse? "

 

[Roshambo]

Why not ask a real question like "how can you justify 2.00-2.50 (for consoles) for people to put armor on their horse? "

Or even a better one, soon when a couple of mods in particular are made:

"How can you justify charging more for less than what hundreds of modders will now pointedly offer for free?"

Alas, that also takes the responsibility of making sure the game is technically sound and developed well from the Bethesda developers, as the modders do a far better job than the developers themselves when it's Bethesda's PAID JOB to do this shit, when the modders are doing this out of a few hours' worth of spare time in work.

Again.

Supposedly, the game has been finished in development for 2 months? Then why the fuck does it take a modder hours to remove the shittiness of your interface?

Everyone has to be working on something, we have folks who have been spending a lot of time on these since we finished the game.

Yet, from my point of view, there hasn't been much "work" from Bethesda but hype, an overpriced "premium" item, and the promise of a couple of additionally useless areas that will be OMFGKEOOLZORS!! And the game, on its own, will still suck ass on a technical level, and on several gameplay levels. Especially on the X-Brick 3xShitty.

Good support!</SARCASM>

Definitely more time put in by our developers.

Where? I see one person in their spare time doing a far better job of support than any of the 30+ people at Bethesda cares to. Then we're fed PR shit. Fuck you, Pete.

And then you charge people money for the privilege of beta-testing and finishing your shitty design for you while you swipe code to otherwise talentlessly regurgitate into another soul-less game and crappy PC port from the console version.

 

[zioburosky13]

Now with more bugs: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=339769

Yeah right. Paying $1.99 and get more bugs

Penny-arcade has something to say bout horse armor:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic

 

[Montez]

Just finished the Dark Brotherhood quests. Whatever other faults the game has, I have to say that they were really well done, and apart from having a very questionable location for the last quest I enjoyed them a lot (I won't spoil the final part of the last quest from them, but it's location combined with regular npc activity doesn't make any sense). Easily the best in the game in terms of story, dialogue, atmosphere, and has the best NPC-NPC interactions in the game. I only hope they can continue (and even maybe exceed) that level of writing with Fallout 3. Second place to the thieves guild - while you could waltz through them in typical Oblivion/Morrowind style, the game at least had some of the mechanics required to make a Thief style experience possible.

The worst so far? Fighter's Guild - typical boring fighter quests and *ugh* escort missions, and made more annoying by having a guildmaster in one city give you a quest for a city on the other side of the map. If there is a guild in every city, what sense does it make for the guy in Chedynhal to give me a quest in Anvil, and vice-versa? I haven't finished them yet, but that aspect of it has me annoyed enough to not want to continue.

Second worst is the Mage's Guild. The storyline isn't too bad and the quests are kind of interesting (superficially at least, I guess), but I completed the whole thing without ever casting a spell. Seriously, every quest they gave was easily solved by me going in and slashing everything in sight. Thanks to a spell reflection shield I aquired pretty early on most of the enemy mages ended up killing themselves before I even hit them anyway. It wouldn't have been too hard to force some kind of magic use, or at least have a "bonus" objective like the DB where you got more money for completing the objective without using a weapon, right? Either way, kind of stupid for a set of quests to not require the use of the skill they represent, or to allow you to become an arch-mage with only one skill at journeyman and the rest at novice or apprentice.

 

[TheWesDude]

you know... i have been buying computer parts left and right and upgrading mine to kick ass status...

i prefer to think of it as upgrading for the faint hope that fallout 3 will be worth a shit.

untill then i have fear and such to oogle over for great graphics...

upgrading from a 1.5 billion fill rate card to a 11 billion fill rate card might just improve my gaming experience no?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

More fuel for the fire here:

Todd and I wanted to give everyone an update on a number of things we have in the works.

Patch/Update
We are working on a patch/update for both the PC and Xbox 360. It will address a number of issues that we have found and ones that have been reported to us and confirmed. It is our plan to first release it as a beta patch for the PC when it has cleared our initial testing cycles internally. Since it’s a beta patch you should be aware that issues may come up that we haven’t found yet and we strongly recommend you backup save games and understand it may be necessary to reinstall the game when the final patch comes out.

We are also looking into the localization issues that have come up in Europe and are working to address some of those issues. A European Patch/Update will be available after the English versions.

We’re doing both of these things as fast as we can and will let everyone know as soon as they are available.

Downloadable Content
We have been working on downloadable content since we finished the game in February, and we continue to feel this is a great avenue for us to continue to add to the Oblivion experience.

We have already announced two of them:

The Orrery
The Orrery allows you to help the Mages Guild of Cyrodiil repair the Imperial Orrery, an ancient dwarven machine with mystical properties. Bandits have stolen a shipment of parts destined for the Arcane University; if you can return them, the Orrery will function once more.

Features

* A new, full-featured quest, including dialogue, journals, and rewards
* Access to the Imperial Orrery in the Arcane University, an incredible mechanical marvel
* New powers available for your character based on the phases of the moons

The Wizards Tower
Located high in the Jeral Mountains of Cyrodiil away from prying eyes, this Wizard's Tower, Frostcrag Spire, will become available. Packed with numerous useful enhancements, this structure will prove invaluable to magic-oriented characters.

Features

* A fully detailed tower for you to explore
* A breathtaking view of Cyrodiil from the highest point in the land
* Simple furnishings including a bed for leveling up
* An indoor botanical garden with over 130 specimens... including Oblivion-native herbs!
* Summon Atronach Familiars that obey your commands
* Instant teleports to every Mages Guild in Cyrodiil
* New Spell and Recharge vendor in the Imperial City
* Fully upgrade the furnishings in your lair to suit your needs
* Upgrade to a fully functional Enchanting and Spellmaking station with no need to join Mages Guild
* Upgrade to a laboratory that buffs your Alchemy skill

We hope to have The Orrery available for purchase next week. This plugin will cost 150pts on Xbox, and $1.89 on the PC. The Horse Armor Pack has been very popular, and exceeded what we thought it would sell. Despite that, we’re still trying to find the right spot, so we’re putting a much larger plugin out for less than the last one and we'll see what happens. Your feedback as we move forward in this is invaluable. Tell us what you want to see, how much of it, and what it might be worth to you. No, don’t say you want it free, because these plugins take a surprising amount of time to create, polish, and test (much more then Morrowind's).

Finally, thank you to everyone who has supported not just Oblivion, but Bethesda Softworks over the years. Oblivion has been a tremendous success for us, and we thank you all for making that happen. We hope we continue to earn your gaming time.

Pete (and Todd)

 

[Brother None]

Despite that, we’re still trying to find the right spot, so we’re putting a much larger plugin out for less than the last one and we'll see what happens.

What?

How does that even make sense?

And who are the idiots encouraging them by buying the horse pack en masse?

 

[Roshambo]

Frankly, the one plugin I can see Bethesda working dilligently on with priority, is the one involving their head coupling with their ass.

 

[Punck_D]

It's quite remarkable, that Pete emphasizes the amount of time to create, test and polish such a plugin with costs like the "Orrery" and it's apparently already in the game, but without any purpose so far.

 

[Paladin Solo]

Xbox users can "buy" their plugins with fucking points? Achievement points, or money points? If it's the first, I'm going to fucking freak. Since when did Beth become a console whore?

Bullshit, pure, utter, unfiltered bullshit at it's worst. I'm not paying a fucking penny for an official mod full of useless crap when REAL artists make much more fluid, and better ones for free.

Fuck you Bethesda, you "next-gen" EA wannabe sluts.

 

[zioburosky13]

Great...another developer who gone into the dark-path(greedy money-making)...

Nice job asshole for releasing some half-baked product.

 

[mortiz]

Something doesn't quite add up here.

A game can take around 2 to 3 years to complete and retails for around £25 - £30 ($40 - $50), some crappy horse armor that was probably a nights work is retailing for $1.99 to $2.50.

Wow, anyone who buys it deserves exactly what they get: absolutely nothing of value.

 

[Montez]

Xbox users can "buy" their plugins with fucking points? Achievement points, or money points? If it's the first, I'm going to fucking freak. Since when did Beth become a console whore?

Money points. I don't know all the options, but I've read that they range from $6.25 for 500 points to $62.50 for 5000 points. So, that means that the 360 owners are actually paying $3.12 or $3.13 for the 250 point horse armor instead of the $2.50 it would seem like it costs, or the $1.99 that PC users pay.

This is in addition to the extra $10 that Xbox360 users pay for the game itself. I guess if you buy an Xbox you might as well have a sign on your back that says "I have lots of disposable income, please take it from me!"

 

[Roshambo]

Xbox users can "buy" their plugins with fucking points? Achievement points, or money points? If it's the first, I'm going to fucking freak. Since when did Beth become a console whore?

Since Morrowind, when they have been allowing the X-Brick designers to cheaply crap out a PC port, with the confidence that it's easier to patch a PC than a console, and enough people will have bitched about how shitty the interface is that it can be justified for spending time to fix it instead of hype and shovel out other overpriced "work".

Fact is, they already have a LOT of people's $50, and didn't make sure the game was finished properly. Before they want credibility for selling what modders give for free, they already owe those who paid $50 the rest of their PC game instead of a crappy console release.

Welcome to Bethesda's new design mentality (courtesy of Todd and Pete), that if it's good enough for the X-Brick and the controls can be rebound, then it should be fine, when back in reality PC releases are held to a higher standard of game design and interface design, while console games WERE held to a higher standard of QA testing* because you couldn't patch them. Well, that was before the X-Brick made it so that the shittiness of the cut-corners PC developers's QA can take advantage of X-Brick users.

And Bethesda fucks up on both accounts.

* - Not anymore, with Bethesda proudly leading the way to "innovate incompetence" onto the X-Brick 3xShitty. So wonderful of Bethesda to take advantage of the ability to make yet even the console people QA their beta-quality software.

Bullshit, pure, utter, unfiltered bullshit at it's worst. I'm not paying a fucking penny for an official mod full of useless crap when REAL artists make much more fluid, and better ones for free.

Fuck you Bethesda, you "next-gen" EA wannabe sluts.

Yeah...while I didn't have faith in Bethesda's design for a Fallout 3, AS a TES fan, this kind of treatment towards their own IP has fully convinced me that they have fully sold out for cash instead of game design.

Ah, I wonder if they will someday realize that they are game designers, when people start to distrust their hype and stop buying shit for the sake of hype. It started with Morrowind, continues with Oblivion, and Fallout 3 looks even worse off than before.