Oblivion out today

[SuAside]

sell all items one by one, even if you have stacks. makes mercantile level faster. (obviously great design)

btw, are you sure it didnt go up due to a quest, rather than a trade? when it gets stuck you can still level it by reward or by buying it from a trainer.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

It's good to see Bethesda's QA sucks as much as their design, art and programming.

 

[4too]

Exploring The Past, Present, And Future

Exploring The Past, Present, And Future






What could ''gritty'' mean in a game?

Whores and drugs ? A gratuitous hook. Even Barbie Playing Games got ''legs'''.

Blood and gore? A consequence of - real - cinematic combat, a gratuitous dance of death.

Friendly fire?

Friendly fire. The truth and consequences of a REAL physics engine. Even a 2D dinosaur from 1997-1998 could simulate character failures to aim AND hit the enemy in the heat of the moment.

In FO it was a part of the design. Recall the old ''Ooops .. "" message during fire fights. One COULD minimize the possibility, by weapons choice for PC and NPC, by advancement in Skill levels. Combat AND Outdoors-man.

Outdoors-man skill could give choice in random encounters AND increase maneuver space / time in FO2 (FO1 too?).

OH, and the PC, the Role Player 'PC', most times was first in sequence and could move first, most times out of the field of fire. As a Role Player, assisting in the score, taking one for the team and delaying that gratification of shooting off, meant move, then shoot, move to win.

By mid game and on. it's fur butt Dogmeat, attacking with tooth and claw, by script, who gets the bullet in the hindquarters, ah ... most often. Even that 'works', lamely for us dogs, when grit includes real world behavior and real world 'physics'.

Friendly fire.

Here is the thread specific comment.

Does The Radiant AI .... LEVEL UP ... TOO!!!!!?
Will that posse in the magic kingdom of full immersion quit shooting our NMA bud - bud - buddies in the virtual ass?

So far.
Apparently not.

Asking OB mod's to cover one's ass has a relevant , literal meaning.


.............................

Shift here to comment on competition in game sales.


Bethesda is competing against a lot of other software entertainment companies.

If GRITTY means pistols akimbo in a future title using the OB engine, then one could consider another multi -- platform -- title, on all consoles AND PC.


This is the one, true, ( accept no substitutes ), GUNS AKIMBO.

It will even challenge those challenged by leveling in Oblivion.

OB leveling, Satisfying the need to whine about a cruel, cruel, STFU and deal with it, game world.

That self satisfying mouse / game pad, thunder god lightning, throwing rave, the RANT.

But need to change that POV, shape shift from 1st, me - me -me, to 3rd magic back pack persona.

In this venue of guns and gritt, in this genre of computerized eye candy ....

http://www.tombraider.com/downloads/wallpaper_02_800.jpg

... the ''levels'' could be called ..... jumping puzzles.

Or,

Want to ROLE around in a Magic Kingdom(tm)?

Tired of Oblivion RA I ?

Nostalgic for stumble bums like Ian and Tyco / Sulik and Cassidy ?

Look who could be in your Kingdom Hearts 2 posse!

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2003/screen0/915410_20031003_screen004.jpg

The real western cultural icons of goof and rant! Can virtual life get any better?






This is more Bethesda future title specific.

Insomniac, a Sony, 'independent', satellite has just changed a title in the making.


http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/insomniacshooter/news.html?sid=6146410&mode=previews


Gamespot:

The gritty PlayStation 3 first-person shooter has a new name, and we go to see an early demo of the game in action at Sony's GDC keynote.
SAN JOSE, Calif.--Insomniac's PlayStation 3 shooter formerly known as I-8 is now called Resistance: Fall of Man, but this unexpected change of title doesn't seem to have impacted the Ratchet & Clank developer's dark vision of the future much at all. ... this dystopian futuristic shooter ... this gritty shooter ...

pic: http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/135/928399_20050516_screen002.jpg

Looks like the parody Beth FO 3 screen shots.

page: http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15721

pic: http://www.nma-fallout.com/fallout3/fakes/bloodlust_fallout3.jpg


Will be on the shelves before FO 3, defining FPS sci fi shooters. One way or the other.
What might Beth's title have to offer for the action 'r'PG, shooter genre,

Radiant AI experience in friendly fire?






4too

 

[SuAside]

more oblivion goodness (starting to understand why they called it oblivion here):

- i return to Cloud Mountain thingy to complete a quest. i think 'fuck, snowing, i'll put meh horse in the stable'. brilliant, the roof is in perfect condition, but the snow has wallhack. :'( poor horsey, out in the snow...

- fighting soms mystic dawn mofo, he runs away, i run after him. the guy keeps running. me thinking 'hey, maybe he's going for help! sweet, finally some AI.' think again: the dude just ran & ran, always 20 meters ahead of me. sadly, he always runs when i get his ass in my crosshair. so i run after him, killing the entire cave (his running past screaming like an idiot doesnt alert any of his buddies though...). so he just keeps running & running. constantly screaming how he's going to own my ass & that i should run away & shit. nice nice, come face me ffs... eventually, after killing the entire cavern & all his buddies, i tag his ass, with an arrow in the back of the head. now, why did i even bother you ask? because he had the key to a door that cant be lockpicked... lovely AI...

- now that we're talking about the Radiant AI (or was it radiated? would make more sense): i meet 2 imperial legion forresters on patrol. patrolling the woods around a town. i decide to tag along for a moment. i was searching for some stupid cave-entrance anyway (how brilliant that you map the cave on your map 3 hills away but have to search for the entrance for ages sometimes).
so, i'm following those guards. they chat about, but it's the normal shit you hear EVERYWHERE in the game. useless blabber. then i see a deer & wonder if i should tag it & sell the skin. i decide against it because my inventory will be full anyway when i find the cave.
i see one of the soldiers draw his bow & shoot the dear. he then walks over & 'loots' it. "hehe nice" /me thinks. then the other soldier yells one of his generic warnings, i turn around, thinking i'll see some bandit approach or something.
no such thing, i see the other soldier steady his aim & shoot in the stomach of his fellow guard. *oink?* strange rules of engagement they got here...
the other guard retaliates & does the same. both guards end up with about 4-5 arrows in their stomach & i'm thinking: "lol free loot" as their health is dropping fast. then they keep shooting & shooting. about 12 shots each, but you can only see 4 arrows in their stomach. their health never goes below about 20%. then the guards 'reset' to full health & walk off chatting about how the Gray Prince got beaten by some stupid Bosmer.

so much for immersion...

 

[Montez]

I saw the captain of the guard of Skingrad pickpocket a beggar the other day. It's not what they intended, sure, but I actually prefer the AI to be crazy and unpredictable. It makes the game more interesting, and after all, if I'm simultaneously saving the world AND looting and slaughtering everything, I like the fact that my behavior is mirrored in the citizens of the game world. The main thing I'm hoping will come out of the modding community is an AI mod that will make everyone into complete lunatics. The things that Bethesda mentioned in interviews as "bugs" and reasons to tone down the game, like guards stealing food and then attacking each other and dragging the whole town into a riot - that's exactly the kind of stuff I want in the game.

In Thief: Deadly Shadows, the funniest and most interesting parts of the game were when I sneakily started a conflict or when two factions met and commenced to have a never-ending battle while civilians ran around screaming "Aaaaaaahhhh don't kill me!!!" - I loved it, and it only became better when a few oil flasks and/or some fire were added to the mix. The potential for that type of unpredictable madness was the main thing that caught my interest for Oblivion. It fits perfectly too: The emperor is dead and there's no heir, bandits and goblins and monsters are everywhere, daedra are invading the land, killing and destroying everything in their path; I sure as hell wouldn't be going about my daily routine if that were happening! Let's see some chaos!

Most games follow a more or less predicatible path - there might be a twist in the story, or some unique type of enemy that catches you the first time you encounter it, but most games never surprise you - they follow the logic that they were designed with, and barring a glitch here or there that's all they do. I love the fact that we're starting to get more games where things happen that aren't so predictable, that aren't replicable from game to game; it makes everything so much more unique and memorable.

 

[mortiz]

I saw the captain of the guard of Skingrad pickpocket a beggar the other day. It's not what they intended, sure, but I actually prefer the AI to be crazy and unpredictable. It makes the game more interesting, and after all, if I'm simultaneously saving the world AND looting and slaughtering everything, I like the fact that my behavior is mirrored in the citizens of the game world. The main thing I'm hoping will come out of the modding community is an AI mod that will make everyone into complete lunatics. The things that Bethesda mentioned in interviews as "bugs" and reasons to tone down the game, like guards stealing food and then attacking each other and dragging the whole town into a riot - that's exactly the kind of stuff I want in the game.

In Thief: Deadly Shadows, the funniest and most interesting parts of the game were when I sneakily started a conflict or when two factions met and commenced to have a never-ending battle while civilians ran around screaming "Aaaaaaahhhh don't kill me!!!" - I loved it, and it only became better when a few oil flasks and/or some fire were added to the mix. The potential for that type of unpredictable madness was the main thing that caught my interest for Oblivion. It fits perfectly too: The emperor is dead and there's no heir, bandits and goblins and monsters are everywhere, daedra are invading the land, killing and destroying everything in their path; I sure as hell wouldn't be going about my daily routine if that were happening! Let's see some chaos!

Most games follow a more or less predicatible path - there might be a twist in the story, or some unique type of enemy that catches you the first time you encounter it, but most games never surprise you - they follow the logic that they were designed with, and barring a glitch here or there that's all they do. I love the fact that we're starting to get more games where things happen that aren't so predictable, that aren't replicable from game to game; it makes everything so much more unique and memorable.

I very much doubt that Bethesda designed it to be that way, even in the context of the story it doesn't really make much sense because the emperor is dead, yes, but the empire is still be ruled by the high council.

Now for my initial report:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I played my first marathon early on today. And while it's playable and certainly a lot better than Morrowind I found it less awe-inspiring than the gaming-press and Bethesda would have you believe. It starts off interesting enough with you following Uriel Septim through the dungeon in the Imperial Prison but soon enough things that I disliked about Morrowind begin to appear.

The characters have rarely anything interesting to say, it mostly consists of asking them about "Rumors" or in the case of the guards for "Directions", most of them giving you the exact same information that you can't really react upon. Such rumors include "I heard there was a good blacksmith in town" oh, jeez, thanks. In something like Fallout it isn't a major deal because you were always pretty sure of who the main quest characters were, or if someone did have something to say by looking at the name. If they had a unique name they probably had a dialogue tree attached. In Oblivion however all of the characters have unique names(apart from the guards) so you end up trotting around talking to these fillers hoping that one will give you a quest. This means the game can also pace quite slowly, if you don't want to follow the main quest line then trying to find someone who will give you a quest can take a bit of time.

The cities again seem rather dull and lifeless; I think this is partly due to the first-person/third-person combo in terms of perspective which really amplifies the lack of anyone actually doing anything.

That brings me on to the dialogue trees themselves, or lack thereof. These "dialogue" trees are more like dialogue lists. There aren't really any variable outcomes to a conversation, and except in very rare circumstances can you pursue the same 'tree' in a different way and have the person coming out loving or hating you. In the cases where you are posed with more than one or two options, if you choose an option it gives you the information and then drops you straight back into the top level of the tree, there's very little expansion. As for the dialogue writing itself, it's mostly just basic stock fantasy stuff, as you'd expect from an action game; compared to the writing in Fallout and PS:T it's literally not even in the same league as well as genre. NPC interaction overall is very basic. One NPC must have mentioned "Oblivion" six times within the same paragraph of dialogue. Yes, we recognize the name of the game we've just purchased, and yes, we know all about the Oblivion Gate after we were told the entire story within the first 5 minutes.

Oh how I miss the expansive and interesting conversations with the likes of The Master . But they did dot a load of books around that no one can be arsed to read.

Combat is an improvement over Morrowind's but at least in Morrowind your statistical skill had some influence over whether you'd hit or miss with your chosen weapon. Not really in Oblivion, this is FPS combat, not CRPG combat, people with better reflexes have a distinctive advantage.

The Quest design is also better than in Morrowind, there are some rather unique quests over the usual deliver package to X from Y, however there are plenty of those too.

And who cares about the graphics right?

That's all I have to report at the moment, I'll no doubt have more to say on the game when I'm a bit further in, but for now, over and out from me.

 

[Roshambo]

more oblivion goodness (starting to understand why they called it oblivion here):

And the mocking name of this game shall be known as...

The Empty Scrolls: Oblivious

 

[Pajari]

I could be just an inveterate graphics whore who slavishly laps up the drivel put forth by the mainstream gaming media and will forever doom the gaming industry with my lax standards and unwillingness to tolerate innovation, but I enjoyed the game a lot. The graphics are fantastic if you've got an excellent rig, the combat was far more satisfying and physical, and the world seemed a lot more alive and filled with things to do. And of course, I'm a sucker for non-linearity, and I spent about twelve hours just dicking around in the forest killing things and fighting some bandits before I actually started the main quest. The fact that I can do that and have tons of fun at it is alone reason to pick up the game.

I really don't understand all the hate here- but then again, we are Fallout fans.

 

[Montez]

I very much doubt that Bethesda designed it to be that way, even in the context of the story it doesn't really make much sense because the emperor is dead, yes, but the empire is still be ruled by the high council.

No no, don't get me wrong - I wasn't trying to justify the AI in terms of what Bethesda wanted for the game, just in terms of what I want to see. I really liked the fact that other characters were as insane as my character (and most other peoples characters too, probably) - one minute the noble defender of the realm, the next minute robbing a homeless man blind, and I'd like that to be even more prevalent, to the point where instead of spending an hour trudging from Point A to Point B to get Item C for Quest D, every minute of the game is filled with unpredictability and completely engages your attention. I know it was unintentional and doesn't fit in with the game, I just enjoy it.

Another example: this morning I was coming back from exploring around Bruma when I saw this lady run past me and start shooting arrows at my horse that was in the stable. While I was trying to figure out what was going on and whether I should kill her, a guard started attacking her. She would shake off the guard and then start shooting at my horse again like it had commited such an unspeakable crime against her that she was completely overtaken by a blind suicidal desire for revenge. Eventually the guard damaged her enough that she ran off, and I lost sight of them and didn't feel like pursuing so I let it be. Later on in the city I saw her walking around and decided to talk to her, and of course she said "Hello!" in a cheery tone like nothing had ever happened; obviously because the game wasn't built to adapt to situations like that, but it made me start thinking of every NPC in the game as a demented looney and that Cyrodil was just one big asylum, which is pretty amusing. It's "wrong" in context of what Bethesda probably wanted and in terms of the game itself and the AI, but I thought it was awesome. At that point I don't really care what was intended, what was overhyped, what is flawed, I just care that something is happening that is engaging my imagination and interest and making me want to keep playing.

 

[Briosafreak]

Montez i'm going to get the game regardless of anything i read, for, hmmm, research purposes, but at least tell me the leveling thing isn't as bad as i'm reading on the TES boards or here
Is this true?

 

[mortiz]

Montez i'm going to get the game regardless of anything i read, for, hmmm, research purposes, but at least tell me the leveling thing isn't as bad as i'm reading on the TES boards or here
Is this true?

Item and mob scaling is horrible. Every single mob you come across is killable from level 1 up to level xx. And since the items scale with your level you'll soon find your bran new Daedric armor (meant to be very rare in the TES world) becomes worthless because every bandit and his sister has a set.

 

[Montez]

Montez i'm going to get the game regardless of anything i read, for, hmmm, research purposes, but at least tell me the leveling thing isn't as bad as i'm reading on the TES boards or here
Is this true?

Yep, just as mortiz said above me, pretty much everything in the game levels with you. In theory, you could probably beat the game without ever leveling up since nothing else would either. I don't really know what to think of it yet. I haven't run into bandits with daedric armor and things like that, and so far I have to say that I haven't really noticed the "leveling" thing at all - I can see that enemies are getting tougher, but beyond that it hasn't stuck out for me. So either I'm in for a big suprise, or it's something that looks worse on paper than it does in a game.

 

[Brother None]

Yep, just as mortiz said above me, pretty much everything in the game levels with you. In theory, you could probably beat the game without ever leveling up since nothing else would either.

From what I understand, you need to be level 2 to enter the gates. Then all limits are off. People have actually finished the game by rushing it on level 2 and 3.

A level 3 peon. Saves the world.

Oh yeah.

I'm completely dumbfounded by the incompetence that must be behind that. Plus it completely kills how I usually play CRPGs. I'm a slow player, I explore a lot and in doing so usually level a lot pretty early, meaning the fights later on are easy for me. I enjoy the challenge of problem-solving more than challenging combat anyway, so that's no big deal for me.

But not on Oblivion. Players like me, and I think there are a lot who like slow, steady procession to calmly go through a game, are punished for their wickedness.

"Lolzors you just want to powergame!" Is the accusation. Powergame? In a fucking single player game? WHO GIVES A SHIT, YOU MORON?!

 

[SuAside]

problem solving kharn? poor you

oblivion problem solving is restricted to following your questlog & the arrow on your map. often if you try to be smart about it & figure out the end of the quest before going through all steps, you often end up with the inability to complete the quest.

had thisone with a main story quest btw. couldnt undo it or progress after beating the game to the punch. really fun. lost 2 hours of gameplay due to that. i'm a 1 save per hour + lots of quicksaves kind of man. but of course, quicksaves overwrite & my last save was after doing the gamestopping bug crap. had to take the save before that...

havent played since though. kinda sick of this crap. i REALLY wanted to give this game a chance, but noooooo... they just couldnt do some basic QA.
i'll probably eventually play through it using some cheats to deck myself out a bit. speaking of which: another frustration of mine is that i like my stuff to be functional. i like to be low profile, so i tend to stick to dark armors & casual stuff, not the attentionwhore crap. sadly, the game hardly has any of it (except the utter crap ofc, all the rest is *SHINEH*!).

 

[mortiz]

problem solving kharn? poor you

oblivion problem solving is restricted to following your questlog & the arrow on your map. often if you try to be smart about it & figure out the end of the quest before going through all steps, you often end up with the inability to complete the quest.

had thisone with a main story quest btw. couldnt undo it or progress after beating the game to the punch. really fun. lost 2 hours of gameplay due to that. i'm a 1 save per hour + lots of quicksaves kind of man. but of course, quicksaves overwrite & my last save was after doing the gamestopping bug crap. had to take the save before that...

havent played since though. kinda sick of this crap. i REALLY wanted to give this game a chance, but noooooo... they just couldnt do some basic QA.
i'll probably eventually play through it using some cheats to deck myself out a bit. speaking of which: another frustration of mine is that i like my stuff to be functional. i like to be low profile, so i tend to stick to dark armors & casual stuff, not the attentionwhore crap. sadly, the game hardly has any of it (except the utter crap ofc, all the rest is *SHINEH*!).

You could always just give up doing side quests and only do the main quest. Levelling has been made rather pointless in this game, it gives you no real advantage over your opponents which levelling is supposed to do, so you may as well not bother with side quests. Money is of no object since there's nothing really to buy. I don't really care about buying a house just to decorate it because if I wanted to do that I'd play The Sims.

 

[Roshambo]

I love the official forums...so full of fun. It reminds me of the buggy and questionable release of Fallout 2, with the same denial and spin.

I've been reading that it's rather pointless to be a thief, breaking into shops etc to steal items, because said items will always be what's 'appropriate' to a person of your level, and you'll get similar items by fighting bandits, which you'll have to do at some point anyway.

Is this the case? If so, what's the point in risking breaking into somewhere and stealing?

Roleplaying. This is a roleplaying game, you know, not some strange construction for overachievers.

So you like to roleplay a thief who pointlessly breaks into places with nothing valuable to steal? Do you roleplay a retard?

Usually, I think Rend has a good head on his shoulders, but all I can say is he's being more than a bit foolish in defending this game and deservingly got bitchslapped clean out of that thread. The friend I watched had a thief character while I was installing UT2004 onto the LAN systems.

So they break the law, risk punishment, go through the time and challenge to be able to open a chest at the risk of traps on it...and I turn around to see their reward. A few dozen septims and trash that should have been in the pantry instead of the house's lockbox (so much for AI when the programmers have no DI (design intelligence) about dwelling construction), leading me to believe that Bethesda developers do not actually have homes of their own, but instead live in their cubicles with their lunch wrapped up neatly in their bedroll and skivvies. Perhaps they should have spent less time studying soil erosion and spent more time on learning how real people live and store garlic and carrots in their pantry, not their sock drawer.

So, I think Bethesda has come up with a new role-playing standard.

Thief = Retard who steals from other retards.

So, MrSmileyFaceDude, how is that "hype instead of develop" thing working out for you guys from your perspective, as it doesn't seem to be working to well from ours? Well, except for the idiots who say things like "You're telling me these sites are giving Oblivion bad scores BEFORE Beth even releases a patch? That's not very productive... " Also, great job at keeping certain key design points hidden until the fans can look at it themselves and be blindsided at how shitty they are. Is that your plan for Fallout 3 as well, since you did that to your own IP's fans, to the point where they have to mod out your mistakes? Are we to expect more dishonesty and snake oil? When will you get tired of being progressively (and now even more quickly) known as a cut-corners company that relies on its fans to test, patch, and even develop out your mistakes?

Tell Todd to drop me a message sometime if he wants to be educated about CRPG design elements he doesn't understand, in particular "Risk and Reward" and "Game Balance For Dummies". If he plans on touching Fallout 3 with ANY credibility, he's going to need it.

 

[Montez]

Yeah, I pretty much gave up on thieving pretty quickly and only use my lockpicking and sneak skills in dungeons now. Every house has clothing, bolts of cloth, vegetables, plates, useless miscellania and that's about it. It's not even worth the small amount of gold you can get for stealing things just because 100 pounds of goods equals about 20 coins, and like Suaside said there's nothing really worth buying. Basic goods aren't really expensive, and the enchanted goods and even things like health potions are so overpriced that you'd have to go looting for hours at a time to afford them. The only places that have things worth stealing are the mage's and fighter's guilds, but once you join it's not considered stealing to take anything. It's not even worth breaking into houses just for the curiosity factor, since the guards seem to catch you in the house pretty quickly.

The leveled enemies are starting to really bug me. I'm level 14 now, and every enemy is still delivering "staggering" blows as much and draining my health as quickly as they did when I was level 1. Why am I bothering to level up and increase my skills if it's not making me any more effective in combat? Am I going to be level 40 with all my stats maxed out and have mastery in block, blade, and armor, yet still go stumbling backwards from every other strike from a goblin? I'm all for keeping the game challenging, but not at the expense of letting me feel like I'm making some progress and getting better.

 

[SuAside]

oi! montez, it's mortiz that said there's nothing worth buying.

i think buying some of the (fucking overly expensive) spells can be pretty worthwhile. just dont buy too many, they're often just simple copies with another visual effect...

btw montez, game progression = more shiny loot! definately worth playing! kek?

if you level enough, ALL your enemies will be wearing the most rare & expensive armor and weapons in the world. even a standard bandit. i love this immersion.

anyhow, as i told you, i met my first gamestopping bug & i was about to uninstall when a friend of mine told me the 'evil' quests were quite good. bleh, he talked me into making a new evil char, since my old one was a good little twoshoes... i'll report back when i've done some Dark Brotherhood stuff.

 

[Montez]

oi! montez, it's mortiz that said there's nothing worth buying.

Sorry guys, I was tired and I just remembered seeing your avatar in the neighborhood of those words.

I did end up getting that Mercantile bug by doing the Hackdirt quest. Nice! On the plus side, I really enjoyed the "Brush With Death" quest - it was kind of creative and I love Van Gogh so it really stuck out from the rest.

 

[mortiz]

btw montez, game progression = more shiny loot! definately worth playing! kek?

And what's the point in getting all of that shiny loot if the only thing it's useful for is looking good? It doesn't give you an advantage in the game since the mobs are wearing and using the same damn stuff. By level 10 you have more money than you can possibly spend anyway. I've heard that someone had so much useless money that he bought every single home you can buy in the game and has stopped picking up loot because it's pointless.