OK Rosh, I STILL get your point, but I think we may be arguing about a minute point of the fallout setting (General public opinion of one nation) that was never brought up in the game, or significantly enough in the bibles that I remember it (YOU may remember it, however, which is why I'm yielding to you on this particular issue.) So we can now say, more-or-less decisively that there would be no presence of mass-market Japanese swords. If there were Japanese swords they'd be Grandpa's WWII trophy, but they'd be about as common as the Mauser pistol (Similar era; they were still in use in WWII and that's probably how the ones in Fallout(2) made it over) i.e. very rare, only one or two in the whole entire game, and no real reason to include them except as a more-or-less palatable "easter egg" that doesn't break the setting.
Old School weaponry
- Thread starter Grizzle
- Start date
Dark Predator
First time out of the vault
i don't care if it is a katana, or a cavalrysword or a medieval sword as long as it is a sword!
Roshambo wrote:
Roshambo wrote:
do i need to send you my yellow card?
I really doubt that combat style is a minor point of the setting, though.
As for the feeling of nationalist pride and fear of Commies, etc., if you missed the propaganda in the game itself, not my problem. Also, not my fault if you missed that it has been pointed out that the fiction is styled to be written in the eyes of a 50's science-fiction author, pulp, written, and with some later works of note alluded to as nods the same setting, as they fit within the Fallout universe and not for the hell of it. Hence there were also points of racism and that sort of thing. It might not have been in the Fallout bible because then, MCA didn't have a clue as to what the Fallout setting was. The Art Director seems to have a better clue about the setting, as he puts it "the future of the fifties".
MCA had to be corrected repeatedly, and later admitted that New Reno, while an okay town for a gangster RPG, didn't really fit Fallout's setting. The same with the "yakuza" and similar, which weren't even given an explanation, and the presence of numerous lame easter eggs made it even more obvious that these people didn't know what they were doing and somehow managed to appeal to puerile tastes by using pathetic writing talent, inserting in easter eggs ad nauseum to hide the poor design of Fo2.
Katanas, at best, would be an easter egg, having little use in the game other than "it would be kewl". Pugilism, melee brawling, and gunslinging are the combat types made a bit popular by earlier space operas and then later by greasers (Junktown for a good example), especially with ray guns and large weapons common to that type of fiction. Fiction, and in an alternate timeline, so that makes it clear that we're not going by history, but rather the universe as it was created.
Therefore a katana and related material would be useless to work on, and as a result, useless to discuss. The baseball bat is brilliant and immeasurably more suitable towards the setting compared to the baseless Japanophilia, probably one of the good ideas from Fo2 that did fit into the setting. That is, unless someone is going to pull a katana out of their ass into the setting just like BIS pulled the yakuza from their collective sphincter. Hence why I do praise BIS for the game they got right, Planescape: Torment, but when it came to Fallout, it almost was a disaster.
That is why we are trying to avoid concepts that have no purpose other than to appeal to some 12 year-old with a boner for TMNT. We actually want some hope of a Fallout 3 to fit within the setting, versus FOT, F
OS, and quite honestly, the first bug-filled near catastrophy SLAM DUNK! by Feargus' hands.
So you'll go for White Trash Ninja, than try to suggest something that fits within the setting. Well, if you're not going to bother to put thought behind your post, go where mindless posting is not just coddled, but encouraged, the BioWare forums.
You have done a pathetic job of faking having played the Fallout games. I don't care if you're reading a walkthrough to try and fake it, nobody who has played Fallout would even remotely mention compact discs nor metal for combat music, nor much of the other unbelievable stupidity you keep posting. Either that, or you're trolling, and I can fix that if you can't.
No, you need to eat it, along with your modem. In addition, your .sig image is a bit too large.
As for the feeling of nationalist pride and fear of Commies, etc., if you missed the propaganda in the game itself, not my problem. Also, not my fault if you missed that it has been pointed out that the fiction is styled to be written in the eyes of a 50's science-fiction author, pulp, written, and with some later works of note alluded to as nods the same setting, as they fit within the Fallout universe and not for the hell of it. Hence there were also points of racism and that sort of thing. It might not have been in the Fallout bible because then, MCA didn't have a clue as to what the Fallout setting was. The Art Director seems to have a better clue about the setting, as he puts it "the future of the fifties".
MCA had to be corrected repeatedly, and later admitted that New Reno, while an okay town for a gangster RPG, didn't really fit Fallout's setting. The same with the "yakuza" and similar, which weren't even given an explanation, and the presence of numerous lame easter eggs made it even more obvious that these people didn't know what they were doing and somehow managed to appeal to puerile tastes by using pathetic writing talent, inserting in easter eggs ad nauseum to hide the poor design of Fo2.
Katanas, at best, would be an easter egg, having little use in the game other than "it would be kewl". Pugilism, melee brawling, and gunslinging are the combat types made a bit popular by earlier space operas and then later by greasers (Junktown for a good example), especially with ray guns and large weapons common to that type of fiction. Fiction, and in an alternate timeline, so that makes it clear that we're not going by history, but rather the universe as it was created.
Therefore a katana and related material would be useless to work on, and as a result, useless to discuss. The baseball bat is brilliant and immeasurably more suitable towards the setting compared to the baseless Japanophilia, probably one of the good ideas from Fo2 that did fit into the setting. That is, unless someone is going to pull a katana out of their ass into the setting just like BIS pulled the yakuza from their collective sphincter. Hence why I do praise BIS for the game they got right, Planescape: Torment, but when it came to Fallout, it almost was a disaster.
That is why we are trying to avoid concepts that have no purpose other than to appeal to some 12 year-old with a boner for TMNT. We actually want some hope of a Fallout 3 to fit within the setting, versus FOT, F
OS, and quite honestly, the first bug-filled near catastrophy SLAM DUNK! by Feargus' hands.Munchkin Ninja Boy said:
So you'll go for White Trash Ninja, than try to suggest something that fits within the setting. Well, if you're not going to bother to put thought behind your post, go where mindless posting is not just coddled, but encouraged, the BioWare forums.
You have done a pathetic job of faking having played the Fallout games. I don't care if you're reading a walkthrough to try and fake it, nobody who has played Fallout would even remotely mention compact discs nor metal for combat music, nor much of the other unbelievable stupidity you keep posting. Either that, or you're trolling, and I can fix that if you can't.
No, you need to eat it, along with your modem. In addition, your .sig image is a bit too large.
I was waiting for your response to Dark Predator, Rosh. "LOL" I say.
I stand corrected. I never read what you read, specifically that "Future of the fifties" piece.
I think the baseball bat may be the quintessential American melee weapon
Seriously, I was disappointed in the fact it never made a serious presence... It's a very common piece of hardware and a brilliantly effective weapon, as well as a well-known piece of Americanism. There should definitely be a few bats in the next Fallout. Your basic wooden bat, an aluminum bat, and even a "Tech bat" designed along the same parameters of the Super Sledge... Perfect. Call it "Excallibat". There was definitely a dearth of two-handed, skull-busting melee weapons in Fallout(2).
I stand corrected. I never read what you read, specifically that "Future of the fifties" piece.
I think the baseball bat may be the quintessential American melee weapon
Seriously, I was disappointed in the fact it never made a serious presence... It's a very common piece of hardware and a brilliantly effective weapon, as well as a well-known piece of Americanism. There should definitely be a few bats in the next Fallout. Your basic wooden bat, an aluminum bat, and even a "Tech bat" designed along the same parameters of the Super Sledge... Perfect. Call it "Excallibat". There was definitely a dearth of two-handed, skull-busting melee weapons in Fallout(2).
they had baseballbats in FOT 
I just saw mad max2 for the first time on saturday. There was a guy who used some sort of mace-like thingie, only instead of the iron ball there was a lump of bolts and screws in the end of a chain. Looked like quite a devastating improvized weapon(especially when he slammed it stuck in the car roof
)
I just saw mad max2 for the first time on saturday. There was a guy who used some sort of mace-like thingie, only instead of the iron ball there was a lump of bolts and screws in the end of a chain. Looked like quite a devastating improvized weapon(especially when he slammed it stuck in the car roof
)
That's a flail, you dimwit. FLAIL. Maces are clubs, flails are clubs with chains.
That's like mixing up a knife and an axe.
That's like mixing up a knife and an axe.
*tranquilizes Ashmo* There, there...
Now, where were we? Ah, yes, swords. Indeed the katana shouldn't have made such a widespread appearance in Fallout like it did. It was definatley an unthoughtful nod toward fanboys everywhere who have watched too much bad anime. "omg!!! teh swrdo 0wnz gunz! i want one!!!11!!!1!!!" If there is one at all, it would be a sword picked up from the Japanese and hidden somewhere. Perhaps the Japanese were helping the Chinese, who knows. A very special and very rare item.
The cavalry sword sounds like a good idea along with baseball bats. There needs to be more improvised weapons though. Like an iron rod with a pointed piece of scrap metal welded onto it, like a pick. www.rangerdj.com/clipart/indian/warhammer.jpg]Warhammers [/url] would also be intersting items along with the normal fair of stuff. If you can't get through the Chinese armor with bullets, use your power armor and warhammer to tear through it.
I have been informed by our esteemed comrade, Ashmo, that it might indeed not be called a warhammer. It could be a kriegsdorn/battlethorn, ravenbill, warspike, or just possibly a warhammer. This topic is still under debate so someone pass the German beer and black tea. - Colt
Now, where were we? Ah, yes, swords. Indeed the katana shouldn't have made such a widespread appearance in Fallout like it did. It was definatley an unthoughtful nod toward fanboys everywhere who have watched too much bad anime. "omg!!! teh swrdo 0wnz gunz! i want one!!!11!!!1!!!" If there is one at all, it would be a sword picked up from the Japanese and hidden somewhere. Perhaps the Japanese were helping the Chinese, who knows. A very special and very rare item.
The cavalry sword sounds like a good idea along with baseball bats. There needs to be more improvised weapons though. Like an iron rod with a pointed piece of scrap metal welded onto it, like a pick. www.rangerdj.com/clipart/indian/warhammer.jpg]Warhammers [/url] would also be intersting items along with the normal fair of stuff. If you can't get through the Chinese armor with bullets, use your power armor and warhammer to tear through it.
I have been informed by our esteemed comrade, Ashmo, that it might indeed not be called a warhammer. It could be a kriegsdorn/battlethorn, ravenbill, warspike, or just possibly a warhammer. This topic is still under debate so someone pass the German beer and black tea. - Colt
Kahgan said:they had baseballbats in FOT
Why don't you just fucking die?
requiem_for_a_starfury
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
There's one pre-war melee weapon I'd really like to see, and that's the fire axe. There must be millions of them in America, surely some survived.
Good question, there must be hundreds of thousands of fire axes in North America. Probably far more of them than sledgehammers, and far more pervasive.
requiem_for_a_starfury
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I was thinking of the one's you get in public buildings in a glass case (break in case of emergency) next to the fire hoses. Would they have them in vaults? What with their doors being metal.
It'd be nice to enter the basement of a semi destroyed building and find a fire axe still mounted to the wall, or some raider carrying a cut down one as a throwing axe.
It'd be nice to enter the basement of a semi destroyed building and find a fire axe still mounted to the wall, or some raider carrying a cut down one as a throwing axe.
I definitely missed the fire axe, or any kind of axe really. They're very pervasive, almost as much so as baseball bats. In the country you've got woodcutting axes, double-bitted axes, etc. In the cities you have fire axes.
Fire axes would be great weapons because of the spike; two attack modes: Swing (blade) and Swing (Spike). Spike does less damage overall but has armor modifiers. Raider in metal plate got you down? That spike would go right through!
They'd be scattered. There's probably one in nearly every building, many in fire houses (I doubt that a fire house dispatches all its fire axes even when it dispatches all its firemen, doubtless they have MANY spares), and all sorts of other axes scattered about. Few would remain in place, though, since the potential for a devastating weapon is obvious. I once read that if someone was stuck in the wilderness, the most critical tool to have was a good full-size axe. If the handle breaks it can be re-made with just the head (tedious no doubt), and you can craft all manner of things with it, as well as hunt and defend yourself. Axes, especially fire axes, would be practically coveted in a wasteland environment!
Fire axes would be great weapons because of the spike; two attack modes: Swing (blade) and Swing (Spike). Spike does less damage overall but has armor modifiers. Raider in metal plate got you down? That spike would go right through!
They'd be scattered. There's probably one in nearly every building, many in fire houses (I doubt that a fire house dispatches all its fire axes even when it dispatches all its firemen, doubtless they have MANY spares), and all sorts of other axes scattered about. Few would remain in place, though, since the potential for a devastating weapon is obvious. I once read that if someone was stuck in the wilderness, the most critical tool to have was a good full-size axe. If the handle breaks it can be re-made with just the head (tedious no doubt), and you can craft all manner of things with it, as well as hunt and defend yourself. Axes, especially fire axes, would be practically coveted in a wasteland environment!
Ashmo said:
aah! don't lynch me! 
amazing that no one thought of the fire axe before, it's just obvius in my opinion...another thing I missed was the iron pipe, it's common, does pretty much damage, and anyone can use it.
And an other thing, when you run out of ammo for your gun, why not use that to fight with, it's better than nothing. Sure it might end up destroyed, but that's better than dying...
Dark Predator
First time out of the vault
if you're thinkin' about using normal all day items as weapons, how about chainsaws, circlesaws, medical equipment, gardening equipment and drills
RoshRamboThinges wrote:
tis better?
RoshRamboThinges wrote:
tis better?
Dark Predator said:
Visualize with me now, come on, you can do it. It's a couple hundred years after a thermonuclear world war that virtually wiped man from the face of the planet. Most major cities can not even be entered, what's left of them anyway, due to high radiation levels and biological and chemical contaminants. You're walking along on your happy little way to the molerat cave for dinner when you pass a heap of garbage and notice some has shifted. What's that you say? Lo and behold, it's a chainsaw sticking out. Wow, cool man! You pick that sweet, corroded, baby up and watch as the chain falls off from rust. Oh well, might as well rev 'er up anyway, eh? You grab ahold of the cord and give it a good jerk and a few things happen at once. The clutch seizes almost immediately, the cord thus snaps and flys back slapping you rightly in the face, and the gastank comes loose and spills what remains of what was once gasoline all over your lovely molerat foot coverings which does nothing to help the smell. Whee boy, I hope you have fun massacring with that chainsaw.
And thus is the decay of Man.
Man, I need sleep... - Colt
Chainsaws are very, very unwieldy. They'd make great weapons against unarmored targets, but they wouldn't be able to do much to someone in power armor. They're also, as Colt noted, a bitch to maintain as you need gas, motor oil. blade oil, etc, as well as keeping the blade sharp so it doesn't bind up or cause kickback that can kill you. I suppose you could put them in for flavor; a few bezerk raiders wielding chainsaws would be neat, but I doubt you could use it as a primary weapon. Remember "Mad Max beyond Thunderdome"? Max's chainsaw conked out right when he needed it! Had to resort to the old sledgehammer.
I loved the baseball bat and axe suggestion, and the makeshift weapons
IMHO the axe should indded be made from carparts and sticks....
But you don't want TO many of those flooding the wastes, agreed it would propably be more realisticly, but i'd rather see som good old rusty revolvers (more of them in the 50's than pistols I'd imagine)
Maybe som more WW2 guns, like the colt .45 , as most military bases carried those in storage after the war.......
Transportation..... Well, Brahmin drawn carts, maybe a single car later in the game would be viable......
just my 2 cents....
IMHO the axe should indded be made from carparts and sticks....
But you don't want TO many of those flooding the wastes, agreed it would propably be more realisticly, but i'd rather see som good old rusty revolvers (more of them in the 50's than pistols I'd imagine)
Maybe som more WW2 guns, like the colt .45 , as most military bases carried those in storage after the war.......
Transportation..... Well, Brahmin drawn carts, maybe a single car later in the game would be viable......
just my 2 cents....
"Rusty old Revolvers" is a great idea. Revolvers are very durable, simple firearms. They were made in lots of sizes and with cylinders that cold hold from 5 to 12 or more bullets. Revolvers are popular defense weapons because they're simple to use and you can always confirm just by looking if it's loaded or not. They're popular with criminals because they don't leave shell casings. In the 1950s there were lots of truly craptastic firearms made and sold by companies like Sears, as well as through the mail. Little no-name .32-calibre revolvers, singe-shot shotguns, single-shot bolt-action rifles, that sort of thing. I'd like to see a greater variety of revolvers and rifles, in a greater variety of calibres and such, even if the differences between them is small. In Fallout 2 there were too many high-quality firearms, especially non-american firearms. I'd expect to see more domestic weapons, more calibres and types.
Again going back to "Mad Max beyond Thunderdome", remember the scene where Max checks his guns at the town? He hands over several different pistols and shotguns, probably because he's only got so many bullets for each one, and they're all different. In fallout there was also no heavy rifle slug like a 30.30. The hunting rifle use .223 FMJ and the assault rifle used 5.56mm, both of which are small-calibre high speed bullets. Lots and lots of rifles, especially hunting rifles, use big, heavy, slow bullets. So I'd like to see stuff like that. Perhaps not less ammo overall, but more types. Not everybody in the world likes 10mm, or .45cal, or what-have-you. This would force the player to horde more weapons and more guns. More realistic, but I don't think it would detract from the game. If anything it would add to the post-apocalyptic atmosphere; you do what you have to to get by with what you have.
Again going back to "Mad Max beyond Thunderdome", remember the scene where Max checks his guns at the town? He hands over several different pistols and shotguns, probably because he's only got so many bullets for each one, and they're all different. In fallout there was also no heavy rifle slug like a 30.30. The hunting rifle use .223 FMJ and the assault rifle used 5.56mm, both of which are small-calibre high speed bullets. Lots and lots of rifles, especially hunting rifles, use big, heavy, slow bullets. So I'd like to see stuff like that. Perhaps not less ammo overall, but more types. Not everybody in the world likes 10mm, or .45cal, or what-have-you. This would force the player to horde more weapons and more guns. More realistic, but I don't think it would detract from the game. If anything it would add to the post-apocalyptic atmosphere; you do what you have to to get by with what you have.