Old School weaponry

I agree, personally, I'd like to see shotguns more usefull, and the possibility to fire both barrels at once. It may be a waste of ammo, but in some situations it could be a matter of life and death. Mybe there could also be a "fast loader" -perk that lets you reload using one less action point.

speaking of mad max, I remember in the 2nd one he walked around for quite a while threatening this guy with his shotgun. later on when he found a shell for it, we got to see that he had no ammo in it :lol:
 
Hey Colt, ever heared about the Brotherhood of Steel. I'm pretty sure that they can repear it and provide it with fuel.
Double barrel-shotgun shooting would be very good, and shooting at point blank on some people that stand in a row would let the bullet go thru al of them, andthat it even can blast thu tents and thin wooden walls. That would increase it's power very good.
And if you can't get in or out some building you could use a fireaxe to get thru, using it at wooden walls or doors. It even could be used to "unlock" doors and lockers.

With gardening equipment i ment scythes and pitchforks
ley1.jpg

pitchfork.jpg

I should have said it earlier
 
I think scythes would much rather be turned into lances. They may look impressive, but in combat the angle of the blade can easily become counterproductive.

Pitchforks have been used as simple tridents before, so I guess they'd have a point. With all those brahmin it's very likely you'd find some somewhat usable pitchforks anyway.

I'm not sure how an American '50s sci-fi novelist would feel about them, though, because I can hardly judge that (having never read any American '50s sci-fi).

As for the chainsaws -- I think that some more technically skilled folks might manage to fix one up and bring it back to life (in games realism is only a minor issue anyway -- just look at the miniguns), but the real question is whether it fits the setting at all. How widespread were chainsaws in the '50s and did they play any role as a weapon in fiction or did they only become popular with the zombie movies a few decades later?
 
Chainsaws are not very "fallouty" in my opinion, since they a mostly a invention that appeared later than the 50's.....
 
I think that gardening tools and stuff should appear in the game, at the very least, and while not "weapons" per say they should have attack modes so that if Peasants or farmers get attacked, and not all of them have proper weapons, which is likely, they'd use their farming implements to defend themselves.

I'm not sure when chainsaws were invented or anything like that but I think they predate the 1950s. A quick Google reveals that the modern chainsaw was invented in the 1920s and the modern chipper chain in the 1940s, so we have modern chainsaws in the 1950s for certain. Add some fallout retro-tech to make it run on Small energy cells (or micro fusion cells if you prefer) and you've got a chainsaw that fits the setting. If someone could fix one, or find a preserved one, the I think it would probably see more use as a tool than a weapon. Even in the players hands, if the game was written correctly. Imagine being able to open ANY wooden door? Cut through some walls, even. This would use up 20 or 30 units of "ammo" but you could do it. Like the farming tools I mentioned, though, it should definitely have an attack mode. Probably a high AP cost since it's so unwieldy, and a low chance to hit, but if you have the luck or Melee skill to connect, you can do devastating damage.
 
Lord 342 said:
"Rusty old Revolvers" is a great idea. Revolvers are very durable, simple firearms. They were made in lots of sizes and with cylinders that cold hold from 5 to 12 or more bullets. Revolvers are popular defense weapons because they're simple to use and you can always confirm just by looking if it's loaded or not. They're popular with criminals because they don't leave shell casings.

Revolvers are indeed reliable and easy to use. Simply pull the trigger. However, their benefits don't outweighed their costs. For carrying they are bulky and have a much shorter barrel compared to automatic pistols of the same length. Automatic pistols almost always have a larger capacity, reload faster, and a longer barrel. However, for the Fallout setting, there shouldn't be THAT many of them around. The thing about leaving casings behind is kind of pointless. It's by the slug that they usually match a gun to a bullet, not the casing.

In the 1950s there were lots of truly craptastic firearms made and sold by companies like Sears, as well as through the mail. Little no-name .32-calibre revolvers, singe-shot shotguns, single-shot bolt-action rifles, that sort of thing. I'd like to see a greater variety of revolvers and rifles, in a greater variety of calibres and such, even if the differences between them is small. In Fallout 2 there were too many high-quality firearms, especially non-american firearms. I'd expect to see more domestic weapons, more calibres and types.

These weapons weren't necessarily horribly made or anything. They were simply cheap firearms meant for the common man to keep pests under control and to practice with. They still produce these simple weapons today. A single barrel topbreak shotgun is a very reliable and durable thing.

Again going back to "Mad Max beyond Thunderdome", remember the scene where Max checks his guns at the town? He hands over several different pistols and shotguns, probably because he's only got so many bullets for each one, and they're all different. In fallout there was also no heavy rifle slug like a 30.30. The hunting rifle use .223 FMJ and the assault rifle used 5.56mm, both of which are small-calibre high speed bullets. Lots and lots of rifles, especially hunting rifles, use big, heavy, slow bullets. So I'd like to see stuff like that. Perhaps not less ammo overall, but more types. Not everybody in the world likes 10mm, or .45cal, or what-have-you. This would force the player to horde more weapons and more guns. More realistic, but I don't think it would detract from the game. If anything it would add to the post-apocalyptic atmosphere; you do what you have to to get by with what you have.

First, .223 Remington is the same thing as 5.56x45mm NATO. Essentially anyway. :P There does need to be heavier calibers in the game, I agree. The .30-30 is a good example since it's a very common hunting cartridge and will operate in leveraction arms with no problems (which should be around, not a bunch of MGs). However, there should be a lot of boltaction rifles in .30-06 and .308 Remington which are also very popular. What other pistols cartridge do you want? 10mm Auto is the 9mm Parabellum of the Fallout world (and makes more sense, setting-wise) and .45 ACP is THE American cartridge. It would be nice to see more revolvers in .357 Magnum though. That one revolver could use three different cartridges with absolutely no problems.

Dark Predator said:
Hey Colt, ever heared about the Brotherhood of Steel. I'm pretty sure that they can repear it and provide it with fuel.
Double barrel-shotgun shooting would be very good, and shooting at point blank on some people that stand in a row would let the bullet go thru al of them, andthat it even can blast thu tents and thin wooden walls. That would increase it's power very good.
And if you can't get in or out some building you could use a fireaxe to get thru, using it at wooden walls or doors. It even could be used to "unlock" doors and lockers.

The bullet from a shotgun? Yeah, if you're using slugs in it which isn't all that common... And wouldn't go through a bunch of people since it isn't very high velocity. As far as the BoS fixing up chainsaws, what use would they have for them? They're already pumped up with power armor so why not just use normal swords on the unarmored raiders? Either way, they would be more useful as tools in the end. It's doubtful the BoS would waste time fixing one or producing them when there are more important, and practical, weapons to be made. A simple axe will suffice for cutting down trees which there aren't a lot of if you hadn't noticed.


There should be more farming implements like axes, crowbars, hoes, mattocks, etc. As Ashmo said, scythes would be better put to use as makeshift lances or just left as the original tool which is more useful. - Colt
 
Rippers make much more sense than chainsaws and fit in better as well. This collective dementia seems like an evil conspiracy to get closer to having swords.

Tactics had too many close combat weapons, so you would have to be careful as to how many 'tool' weapons you had.
 
Damnit, sorry. I knew I forgot something in my post. I was going to say that a sword-zied version of the Ripper would be more appropriate for the BoS then them running around with chainsaws like so many Bruce Campbell fanatics.
 
Colt said:
Lord 342 said:
"Rusty old Revolvers" is a great idea. Revolvers are very durable, simple firearms. They were made in lots of sizes and with cylinders that cold hold from 5 to 12 or more bullets. Revolvers are popular defense weapons because they're simple to use and you can always confirm just by looking if it's loaded or not. They're popular with criminals because they don't leave shell casings.

Revolvers are indeed reliable and easy to use. Simply pull the trigger. However, their benefits don't outweighed their costs. For carrying they are bulky and have a much shorter barrel compared to automatic pistols of the same length. Automatic pistols almost always have a larger capacity, reload faster, and a longer barrel. However, for the Fallout setting, there shouldn't be THAT many of them around. The thing about leaving casings behind is kind of pointless. It's by the slug that they usually match a gun to a bullet, not the casing.

Shell casings make it easier to tell where the shooter was, how many rounds were fired, etc. Everything you said is true, but leaving no shell casings just makes it harder to re-construct a crime scene.

Lord 342 said:
In the 1950s there were lots of truly craptastic firearms made and sold by companies like Sears, as well as through the mail. Little no-name .32-calibre revolvers, singe-shot shotguns, single-shot bolt-action rifles, that sort of thing. I'd like to see a greater variety of revolvers and rifles, in a greater variety of calibres and such, even if the differences between them is small. In Fallout 2 there were too many high-quality firearms, especially non-american firearms. I'd expect to see more domestic weapons, more calibres and types.

These weapons weren't necessarily horribly made or anything. They were simply cheap firearms meant for the common man to keep pests under control and to practice with. They still produce these simple weapons today. A single barrel topbreak shotgun is a very reliable and durable thing.

True. Some really were actively bad, while others where just simple.

First, .223 Remington is the same thing as 5.56x45mm NATO. Essentially anyway. :P There does need to be heavier calibers in the game, I agree. The .30-30 is a good example since it's a very common hunting cartridge and will operate in leveraction arms with no problems (which should be around, not a bunch of MGs). However, there should be a lot of boltaction rifles in .30-06 and .308 Remington which are also very popular. What other pistols cartridge do you want? 10mm Auto is the 9mm Parabellum of the Fallout world (and makes more sense, setting-wise) and .45 ACP is THE American cartridge. It would be nice to see more revolvers in .357 Magnum though. That one revolver could use three different cartridges with absolutely no problems.

Fallout 2 .45cal is significantly underpowered; .45 round is very powerful in real life. There should be more guns that use it. Regarding the .357 Magnum and its ability to use different shell types, I remember reading about a pistol that I think was called the "Hydra" or the "Medusa" or something like that, and it could fire several types of bullets, from 9mm to .45 and most in between. It is a relatively modern invention, though. The lack of rifle rounds (If .223 is the same as 5.56, then the fallout people must've stuffed up because they are two distinct ammo types in the games...) is conspicuous and definitely needs to be fixed. Hunting rifles use big slow rounds like 30.30 and the others you mentioned. Americans have lots of hunting weapons. It's part of our culture, so the hunting weapons would be prevalent.

As to chainsaws and swords, chainsaws should be in the game but like a tool more than a weapon. Sure, anything can be a weapon, but realistically a chainsaw isn't a good weapon except against unarmored and preferably unarmed targets. Terrifying, yes, but it's heavy and slow to bring around so the user could be easily flanked and taken out. As was already determined, swords themselves aren't bad, but they can't break the setting. Katanas falling from the sky doesn't work, but a few US-made cavalry sabres or WWII antiques wouldn't ruin things. Swords of any type should be rare, especially non-american swords.
 
The problem with a bunch of guns using .45 ACP is that in a game, they're all pretty much the same. Reliability and ergonomics dont' matter. They're all going to have basically the same hitting power, ammo capacity, and weight so... And yeah, they messed up with .223/5.56mm As far as hunting weapons go, boltactions should be all over the place along with leveraction firearms. These are very, very prevalent and common hunting firearms.


I looked up this Medusa thing. It's actually a six-chamber revolver that's able to fire quite a number of cartridges... And it uses a system to do that which is a a lot like something I had an idea for about a year ago but for .45 ACP and .45 Colt. Oh well. I would love to have one. It can apparently fire everything from .380 ACP, 9mm Parabellum, .38, and on to .357 Magnum. That would be very useful. There should still be a lot of .357 Magnum revolvers that can fire different .38 cartridges. Common and powerful. - Colt
 
quietfanatic said:
Rippers make much more sense than chainsaws and fit in better as well. This collective dementia seems like an evil conspiracy to get closer to having swords.

I never understood the mentality that every single medieval weapon should be represented in a post-apocalyptic setting. On the same note, Rippers had a design that gave reason as to why they are still around; chainsaws and drills otherwise are of no use.

Swords are comparatively harder to make/maintain than most other weapons types, and can't really be crafted; they must be forged for strength and repaired often, as would any other long-bladed item. Axes made from scrap and sharpened against other metal into a blade are far easier to grind into sharpness than a long blade. An axe head starts to chip badly, attach a new one.

It also comes down to which one is more useful in the wasteland as well, and what fits. A sword is useless for anything other than stick and move, and is the sign of more civilized times as the metal needs to be very specific. An axe will let you get firewood in a matter of seconds, and can be cobbled together from just about anything. :)
 
How about bayonets? I'm not sure how common it is to use bayonets on assult rifles nowadays but I know it was before and I think it would fit well in fallout.
 
Bayonets are still a requirement on modern rifles. They're not meant to be used most of the time but when you're entering a building or are low on ammo, a spear is far better than trying to club someone to death with your rifle. Some people argue against them, that they're not needed... But when it comes down to it, why not? The bayonets now are multi-purpose tools that just happen to mount on your rifle as well. It's not hard to mount one on a rifle either so... Why not?


One thing I always expected to turn up in the games was an old bayonet mounted on the end of a pole. End of stick goes through muzzle ring on bayonet and handle is lashed down. A good improvised lance that can be taken apart to have a knife and a walking staff.

This is the Colt M7 bayonet I own which would be perfect for this.

-Colt
 
Bayonets are an excellent idea. The idea of a "Utility Bayonet" is far from new; I've seen a civil-war era rifle with a bayonet that's got a broad, trowel-shaped blade and a blood groove. In addition to *really* fucking someone up if you stick him with it; it can be used to dig trenches, foxholes, graves, etc. I've also seen more modern bayonets that mount to the front of the rifle and make a cutters for wire fences. Some are even insulated for electric fences.

Rosh is right about swords; nobody much would be making swords unless they had a lot of time and resources to burn. The BOS might have some nice ceremonial broadswords, but even they wouldn't *use* them. That doesn't mean that one or two wouldn't turn up. If someone were using a sword, it would be a prewar item; either a ceremonial or novelty piece, or a real weapon (like my 1906 US Cavalry sabre, the last type made intended as a weapon), but prewar nonetheless.

Colt, about different firearms being largely the same; this is a good thing in my mind, because it enhances the "wasteland" feel. People using all the same type of firearms suggest a high degree of organization, like a military or constabulary. In places like NCR and the Brotherhood this is feasible, but your average wasteland gang or such wouldn't have that option. If they were luck they'd all get .45 guns or 9mm guns so they could share ammo, but odds are they'd all have different guns. I'd like to see even variants within the same model, like perhaps your first gun is really shitty and rusty, and then you get a local tinkerer to clean it up a bit and it gets better, but it's still the same model gun. A raider might not take exemplary care of his piece, but someone else might take better care.
 
i think the only times you would see your calvery sword is when taking valts that housed officers. go into the main vault with the generals, i'm sure you would find at least half a dozen swords they had for cerimonies and such

roah about this era, would it make you happier if they had anti-communism and such posters/paintings on walls to add to the enviroment - as in this threat i have seen alot of bagging about whats not right, you should state what is right so people can pick up, nothing like an ovious example to bring people around.
 
grindedstone said:
i think the only times you would see your calvery sword is when taking valts that housed officers. go into the main vault with the generals, i'm sure you would find at least half a dozen swords they had for cerimonies and such

Then those would be ceremonial swords, nothing that anyone outside of a 12 year-old would think of using for combat outside of an impromptu weapon. Real calvary swords (look calvary up if you need to understand what a calvary sword is) have not been forged in a decades, even by a 50's science-fiction perspective. About the best you might find IN a Vault as a piece of a general's uniform would be a ceremonial sword for a tank division. A better place would be at a retired calvary soldier's house (or basement) set a bit in the wilderness so it escapes from the nuclear bombs and possibly has something to deter raiders (possibly the descendents of the vet and others in the area), and the sword holds an honored place in which the PC has to either prove their worth to earn it; or steal it, possibly for someone who wanted to demoralize the area and invade afterwards - a scenario a lot more likely and suitable for use within the setting.

roah about this era, would it make you happier if they had anti-communism and such posters/paintings on walls to add to the enviroment - as in this threat i have seen alot of bagging about whats not right, you should state what is right so people can pick up,

Uh, I have. Repeatedly. I pointed out precisely what era of science-fiction Fallout was styled upon, which even the Art Director pointed out in his Fallout profile, so I really doubt I can do much more to help the stupid understand the setting much more. If they aren't going to bother doing the research and want to sound like a White Trash Ninja, that's their problem. As I am not willing to hold someone's hand to learn the forum rules hit-and-miss, I am loathe to do the same for the Fallout universe when...

nothing like an ovious example to bring people around.

...there is nothing quite like PLAYING the game to give people an idea of the setting. :)
 
I think the use of classic weapons in the next game is a great idea. It helps keep that retro-futuristic view in the first two games. Some of the neatest guns were the thompson "tommy gun" and the 9mm Mauser, which I happen to own. Some that they should add are a Maxim,Lewis,Vickors,Lugers, and then throw in some silencers.
 
Bakerboy246 said:
I think the use of classic weapons in the next game is a great idea. It helps keep that retro-futuristic view in the first two games. Some of the neatest guns were the thompson "tommy gun" and the 9mm Mauser, which I happen to own.

So, instead of a couple of old guns of note, there should be more ~1940's weapons +160 years after the Great War. Maybe you should also look up when the Great War happened.

Some that they should add are a Maxim,Lewis,Vickors,Lugers, and then throw in some silencers.

Ever get the feeling that you've just brought yourself into a thread without even bothering to read what was written before, or that some things you mention might have already been discussed at length?
 
The problem with all of the ones you listed just now , aside from the Luger and Thompson, is that they are very obsolete by the time of the war in Fallout. The Luger and Thompson would mainly be around due to their popularity and history. The Thompson is still a good SMG that is reliable and simpleso it would have some utility... The Luger never was a good combat pistol to begin with and I wouldn't want to carry one.


Edit: Argh, Rosh beat me to it... This is what I get for starting a reply and going to get something to drink. - Colt
 
Back
Top