Olympics thread

Well, yes and ... no ... it is a rather complex and sadly very often overlooked chapter of WW2. Since this is really getting off topic ...

(...) since the collapse of the Soviet Union, a trickle of information has emerged from archives in Moscow, shedding new light on the subject. While much of the documentary evidence remains classified “secret” in the Central Archives of the Ministry of Defense and the Russian State Archive of the Economy, Western and Russian researchers have been able to gain access to important, previously unavailable firsthand documents. I was recently able to examine Russian-language materials of the State Defense Committee—the Soviet equivalent of the British War Cabinet—held in the former Central Party Archive. Together with other recently published sources, including the wartime diaries of N. I. Biriukov, a Red Army officer responsible from August 1941 on for the distribution of recently acquired tanks to the front lines, this newly available evidence paints a very different picture from the received wisdom. In particular, it shows that British Lend-Lease assistance to the Soviet Union in late 1941 and early 1942 played a far more significant part in the defense of Moscow and the revival of Soviet fortunes in late 1941 than has been acknowledged.
http://www.historynet.com/did-russi...ase-helped-the-soviets-defeat-the-germans.htm

There have been a few very crucial battles that the Soviets won in 1941 and 42, and British supplies played a crucial role here, it might have been THE life saver for the Soviets in those engagements. Who knows?. Particularly those two first years against the Germans have been the heaviest in losses for the Sovietunion, in terms of men and material. For example, during Barbarossa the Soviets lost more then 20 500 tanks in 1941! That's 7 times the size of the whole German tank army in just 6 months!

If you take a closer look at the battle of Moscow for example, it shows how important the British aid was for the Soviets in this short period, before their own production and industry took over, which was in mid/late 1942. Moscow was a turning point for the Soviets in the war. And it is hard to say, what would have happend Moscow and other key battles on the east front without the British support.

(...)The tanks reached the front lines with extraordinary speed. Extrapolating from available statistics, researchers estimate that British-supplied tanks made up 30 to 40 percent of the entire heavy and medium tank strength of Soviet forces before Moscow at the beginning of December 1941, and certainly made up a significant proportion of tanks available as reinforcements at this critical point in the fighting. By the end of 1941 Britain had delivered 466 tanks out of the 750 promised.

The point is, I am not saying that British supplies won the war on the east. But if the Brits did nothing to support their Soviet ally? Who knows what might have happend ... Lend Lease as a whole played a huge role for the Soviet war machine, but I think the Brits, played the most important role, simply beacuse they have been so quick with their support! Beating the Germans in 1941 and 42 seemed like a very difficult task and a gamble, particularly as the US faced a very serious adversary with the Empire of Japan in 1941 and 42!. But After 1943? Beating both Japan and germany, was just a matter of when, not if. So the supplies that the Soviets received in 1941 and 42 have been proably a lot more crucial to their war efforts. You know, if the american supplies have been like a sledge hammer blowing at the German body, then the British ones have been like a needle, but to the heart.

(...)Once again, raw figures do not tell the whole story. Although British shipments amounted to only a few percent of Soviet domestic production of machine tools, the Soviet Union could request specific items which it may not have been able to produce for itself. Additionally, many of the British tools arrived in early 1942, when Soviet tool production was still very low, resulting in a disproportionate impact. The handing over of forty imported machine tools to Aviation Factory No. 150 in July 1942, for example, was the critical factor in enabling the factory to reach projected capacity within two months.


Lend-Lease aid did not “save” the Soviet Union from defeat during the Battle of Moscow. But the speed at which Britain in particular was willing and able to provide aid to the Soviet Union, and at which the Soviet Union was able to put foreign equipment into frontline use, is still an underappreciated part of this story. During the bitter fighting of the winter of 1941–1942, British aid made a crucial difference.
 
www.sbs.com.au/topics/zela/article/2016/08/08/why-i-now-stand-caster-semenya
An old discussion, but still rather interesting and important: The sex segregation in sports, and where the line should be drawn. This whole ordeal around Caster Semenya has been highly embarassing not only for her, but for everyone involved. Should we just lift all the segregation or at least add mixed competitions? Let's face it, even elite (and somewhat intersex) athletes like Semenya wouldn't stand a chance in a mixed competition. Opening the competition would simply erase women completely from the ranks. Semenya's best was 1:55 for 800 m, which wouldn't even give her a spot in the Top 50 among men. So where should the line be drawn? Mixed rankings would be equivalent to men's rankings in most sports down to the Top 100, most likely.
Still, mixed competition could work in some disciplines like shooting (where it did work for the longest time, actually), archery, and maybe even fencing.
What's your opinion?
 
When will you stop obsessing with tyrannical communist states?
Because we need them.

Well we need to change them to a totalitarian state, where each area is divided into a semi-independent administrative body called the Soviet, which decides the amount of food, water and other needs go to the people under their jurisdiction depending on how hard and well they work, with local democracy as different people can be elected onto a Soviet. These Soviet's powers are checked by the government, who control the means of production and deal out materials depending on how well a Soviet's area works, and due to the total control there's no currency... blah, blah, blah.
 
Because we need them.

Well we need to change them to a totalitarian state, where each area is divided into a semi-independent administrative body called the Soviet, which decides the amount of food, water and other needs go to the people under their jurisdiction depending on how hard and well they work, with local democracy as different people can be elected onto a Soviet. These Soviet's powers are checked by the government, who control the means of production and deal out materials depending on how well a Soviet's area works, and due to the total control there's no currency... blah, blah, blah.
Russians need them. You guys enjoy that kind of shit.
We dont.
 
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE OLYMPICS?
I hate the way these things are graded, gold should = 3 points, silver = 2 and bronze = 1, instead it's just a tally of medals won.
 
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Wrong, through a controlled state with no currency, you could drop crime, corruption and with the local Soviets, bring a democracy to the workers while easing the logistical burden on the government.
Currency is good. You can drop crime and corruption in normal society. And why not just make government smaller instead of "easing the logistical burden"?
HAHAHAHAHA DEMOCRACY TO THE WORKERS.
I fucking love that puppet democracy thing you have going. it means fuck all, the general secretaries in charge.
 
Currency is good. You can drop crime and corruption in normal society. And why not just make government smaller instead of "easing the logistical burden"?
HAHAHAHAHA DEMOCRACY TO THE WORKERS.
I fucking love that puppet democracy thing you have going. it means fuck all, the general secretaries in charge.
Why not? It's perfectly workable, just have elections for members of the Soviets. They help decide who gets what depending on their work quality and living situations. The government checks their power, but it ensures that there's less of a mess in terms of logistics.

A smaller government? How the fuck does that solve anything?
 
Why not? It's perfectly workable, just have elections for members of the Soviets. They help decide who gets what depending on their work quality and living situations. The government checks their power, but it ensures that there's less of a mess in terms of logistics.

A smaller government? How the fuck does that solve anything?
So I cant be bothered with a debate this morning so lets tie this up here.
Why not? It's perfectly workable, just have elections for members of the Soviets.
Who are basically worthless people.
Anyway, this democracy to the workers thing is weird. We have it in normal societies.
A smaller government? How the fuck does that solve anything?
 
So I cant be bothered with a debate this morning so lets tie this up here.

Who are basically worthless people.
Anyway, this democracy to the workers thing is weird. We have it in normal societies.

How? These so called 'worthless' people decide who gets what under their jurisdiction. No we don't, our elections are a sham, and are rife with corruption.

You need a big government to have no currency.
 
They aren't though.

Currency is good.

So these people decide who gets basically nothing under there jurisdiction?
They are, or the people elected have no power.

Except it's the single biggest motivation for crime and corruption.

What? Don't you get it? They decide who get's what food supplies, medical aid and other items depending on how hard they work and their conditions. This ensures that the government doesn't have the strain of feeding millions of people, and give power to the worker. The government just makes sure everything is dandy and how much these Soviets get depending on their achievement of working quotas.
 
They are, or the people elected have no power.
What?
Except it's the single biggest motivation for crime and corruption.
And success.
What? Don't you get it? They decide who get's what food supplies, medical aid and other items depending on how hard they work and their conditions. This ensures that the government doesn't have the strain of feeding millions of people, and give power to the worker. The government just makes sure everything is dandy and how much these Soviets get depending on their achievement of working quotas.
So basically the government spends stupid amounts of money handing out food, something companies could do? Sounds like a pretty shit system.
 
What?

And success.

So basically the government spends stupid amounts of money handing out food, something companies could do? Sounds like a pretty shit system.
Just look at Australian government. Prime Ministers are so worried about being kicked out, they're more worried with pleasing their fellow politicians then the people.

Yes we have that incentive. The harder and better you work, the more food you get, the better living conditions you're assigned and so on.

:wall:

That's not... THE SOVIETS are not a direct part of the government. They're local councils that deal with the resources the government gives them, to reasonable guidelines. They're aim is to reach quotas given by the government, so that they get more and they reward hard work by giving more ration points and other items.
 
Just look at Australian government. Prime Ministers are so worried about being kicked out, they're more worried with pleasing their fellow politicians then the people.
Shit gets done in Australia still though. Anyway all Australia needs to do is use FPTP and it'll be fine.
That's not... THE SOVIETS are not a direct part of the government. They're local councils that deal with the resources the government gives them, to reasonable guidelines. They're aim is to reach quotas given by the government, so that they get more and they reward hard work by giving more ration points and other items.
So basically shit tons of glutinous awful inefficient government.
Yes we have that incentive. The harder and better you work, the more food you get, the better living conditions you're assigned and so on.
Whats wrong with the system now? The harder you work, the more you earn, the more you can buy.
 
Shit gets done in Australia still though. Anyway all Australia needs to do is use FPTP and it'll be fine.
Barely, and usually badly.

So basically shit tons of glutinous awful inefficient government.
But they're not... oh god the ignorance. Don't you get it? The government doesn't have a lot of direct control, it's up to the local councils to decide most things. The government decides general decisions for the nation, but the Soviets are the most direct 'government' you will have.

Do I have to smack in logic and evidence into your brain? Evidence supports that the poor people work hardest for the least earnings.
 
Why don't you guys make a thread about that topic? I thought this was for Olympics :confused:. If I was a moderator I would have Vatted :vatted: this at the bud :lmao:.

Sorry, I had a bad day and I am a bit grumpy :irked:.
 
Why don't you guys make a thread about that topic? I thought this was for Olympics :confused:. If I was a moderator I would have Vatted :vatted: this at the bud :lmao:.

Sorry, I had a bad day and I am a bit grumpy :irked:.
You're right sorry...

Ugh, I hate and love moderators. They can be saviours from trolls and assholes, but banning dicks means they can get corrupted... and become dicks themselves.
 
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