PC Gamer UK on NMA and AoD

[Sander]

The posts I read did not seem the least bit like stories. Even if they were stories, there is no disclaimer on the site that says “ATTN: Insane, borderline psychotic posts on this may just be stories. Please don’t take them seriously.”

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha.
You took Something Awful, a humour site thriving solely on bashing things, seriously when they posted a quote selection of an internet forum as representative.
That's pretty damn stupid. Did you actually try to look up any of the quotes yourself and see the actual context? No?

See, you came here with a predetermined vision of the site. If you go looking for evidence to support that vision, yep, you'll find it.

You mean the same 11 or so screen shots and 900 previews all on the same 1 HOUR of gameplay footage? Wow, information overload!!

Information that Bethesda has released as representative of their game at this stage.
All we've been doing so far is judging that information. And we don't like that information one bit. It's that simple. You can go all 'But the game's not out yet!!!' on us, but that's horseshit. If this information is not representative of their game (or, more likely, much more positive than the actual game will be as was the case with Oblivion), then why did Bethesda release it as official information about their game? And why is everyone drawing humongously positive conclusions while at the same time deriding us as nutjobs, or people who need to wait before judging (apparently only positive judgements are allowed from previews).

Also, statements like this make the opinion of the community as a whole quite hypocritical. If dialogue, writing, story, and humor all mean sooo much (and I agree they do), then how can you make this determination without seeing the finished product? Oh, you can't.

This 'logic' makes no sense. How does judging information that's been released have anything to do with what we think is important for the game, and how does that make us hypocritical?

 

[Porch Monkey]

I'm kind of curious here, you're all aware this is a game, right?

 

[Tagaziel]

Re: the weigh in lasted 2 secs - world record!!!

Alone not, but combined with a weigh difference in inventory, it does make .223 heavier.

Wait, are you taking the in-game wright measurements as representative?

Except that there aren't 5.56mm Personal Miniguns IRL - military tried to make such weapon, but recoil was too high.
On the other hand, it can work with lighter ammo. 5mm ammo is what makes such thing as a Personal Minigun possible.

What kind of bullshit is this? 5mm ammunition in Fallout is assault rifle class ammunition. 5.56mm ammunition in real life is assault rifle class ammunition. Since they are the same class, they have to share most statistics, to fulfill the role of assault rifle ammunition.

And since real-life XM-214 minigun had damn high recoil, the miniguns in Fallout would also have. Because, you know, it's not the weight of the bullet that really counts, it's the amount of energy the gunpowder releases backwards when it explodes to propell the round,

I have a source that .223 miniguns did exist - Fallout 2. They were Heavy Dual Miniguns mounted on immobile defence turrets.

And? Notice the term "dual" and "heavy". Taking a single example out of context is not correct logic.

You're missing the point - I'm not talking about just adding new RL ammo types, but about removing the old Fallout ones - 5mm, 10mm and 14mm.
The .223 Minigun was .223 because 5mm ammo was no more.
What's the point of such revision?

10mm exists in real life. As for the point, have you thought that maybe California isn't the only state in the United States and what applies here doesn't have to apply elsewhere?

Only for one antique weapon.

Which does not rule out it being used more widely elsewhere. Hello, Fallout takes place only in California.

A new round that is a century old and is less suitable to be fired at extreme rpms?

Oh, so you found the secret military ballistics analysis file in the Sierra Army Depot!

Now, seeing how the round was used in defensive turrets in SAD and the Enclave instead of the 5mm ones, which was widely used for Miniguns and would be easier to use for turrets (less recoil = less stress on the frame = more durability), it's not impropable that indeed, .223 was being accepted as the new standard, seeing as both SAD and the Enclave are some of the most advanced places in the wasteland.

You are worshipping Fallout, and that is highly disturbing.

...you really don't notice that?

Which I said many times.

Yet your actions are directly the opposite.

 

[SuAside]

just a few comments from a resident gunnut:

Numerous real life cartridges exist within the universe of Fallout (.44, 10mm, 5.56mm etc.) alongside fictional ones, so the move to introduce more variety in ammunition (9mm, which existed in Fallout and was used) wasn't all too uncommon.

a lil' nitpicking, but there is no 5.56mm NATO in Fallout, Mr Furry. there is however .223 FMJ.

a rifle capable to fire 5.56mm NATO is usually capable of firing .223 Remington, but that doesn't mean that the opposite is true. so be careful kids! 5.56mm is higher pressure military ammo. .223 Remington is lower pressure civilian (hunting) ammo. so only use 5.56mm military surplus in rifles rated for it. not your average run of the mill .223 Rem rifle. the chamber also differs, so while you can fire .223 Rem in a 5.56mm gun, it might still wear your chamber (the lead differs). most 5.56mm rifles have an intermediate chamber that is able to use both though.

Except that there aren't 5.56mm Personal Miniguns IRL - military tried to make such weapon, but recoil was too high.
On the other hand, it can work with lighter ammo. 5mm ammo is what makes such thing as a Personal Minigun possible.

well, yes and no. the problem with the portable minigun was that is was heavy, bulky and to be able to fire it normally, you needed to bring the cyclic rate down to that of an M249 SAW / FN Minimi, so what would actually have been the use of a minigun? nothing.

however, in a world of Powerarmor and alternate technology, this doesn't matter. their recoil mitigation systems might be enough to fire it even without power armor (as it was in Fallout).


PS: californian commiland gunlaws do not effect Fallout in any way, so drop it. the timeline diverges...

 

[Tagaziel]

just a few comments from a resident gunnut:

Numerous real life cartridges exist within the universe of Fallout (.44, 10mm, 5.56mm etc.) alongside fictional ones, so the move to introduce more variety in ammunition (9mm, which existed in Fallout and was used) wasn't all too uncommon.

a lil' nitpicking, but there is no 5.56mm NATO in Fallout, Mr Furry. there is however .223 FMJ.

a rifle capable to fire 5.56mm NATO is usually capable of firing .223 Remington, but that doesn't mean that the opposite is true. so be careful kids! 5.56mm is higher pressure military ammo. .223 Remington is lower pressure civilian (hunting) ammo. so only use 5.56mm military surplus in rifles rated for it. not your average run of the mill .223 Rem rifle. the chamber also differs, so while you can fire .223 Rem in a 5.56mm gun, it might still wear your chamber (the lead differs). most 5.56mm rifles have an intermediate chamber that is able to use both though.

Damn, I shouldn't use calibers and cartridges interchangeably.

You're damn awesome, by the way.

Except that there aren't 5.56mm Personal Miniguns IRL - military tried to make such weapon, but recoil was too high.
On the other hand, it can work with lighter ammo. 5mm ammo is what makes such thing as a Personal Minigun possible.

well, yes and no. the problem with the portable minigun was that is was heavy, bulky and to be able to fire it normally, you needed to bring the cyclic rate down to that of an M249 SAW / FN Minimi, so what would actually have been the use of a minigun? nothing.

however, in a world of Powerarmor and alternate technology, this doesn't matter. their recoil mitigation systems might be enough to fire it even without power armor (as it was in Fallout).

Good point.

PS: californian commiland gunlaws do not effect Fallout in any way, so drop it. the timeline diverges...

I don't mean the law. I mean preferences. Remember the thing about eleven US commonwealths from Van Buren? California and it's surroundings could've used other weapons than their neighbours, whih is why we get 9mm and .223 as basic ammunition in Van Buren.

 

[d_agra]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b135/paintinggrey/NMA.jpg

Dont know if i can post this but here it is the scan from the article

He has an email if you want to reply to this story and it is

ross.atherton@futurenet.co.uk

 

[Ausir]

Remember the thing about eleven US commonwealths from Van Buren?

There were 13 commonwealths, and they were actually made up for FO1, but it wasn't until Van Buren that J.E. Sawyer actually divided the states into commonwealths.

 

[Tagaziel]

Remember the thing about eleven US commonwealths from Van Buren?

There were 13 commonwealths, and they were actually made up for FO1, but it wasn't until Van Buren that J.E. Sawyer actually divided the states into commonwealths.

There are eleven stars on the flag in Fallout. We have eleven commonwealths.

THIRTEEN COMMONWEALTHS IS A CONSPIRACY I TELL YOU, CONSPIRACY, USE YOUR TIN FOIL HAT TO UNDERSTAND!

 

[Ausir]

There are 14 stars - 13 in the circle and one in the middle.

Tramell Isaac, who rendered the intro cinematic for Fallout said that they just took the old colonial flag with 13 stars and added a new star in the middle.

See:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/United_States#Behind_the_scenes



UNLESS, OF COURSE, T-RAY IS PART OF THE CONSPIRACY!

 

[Tagaziel]

THEY ARE ALL PARTS OF CONSPIRACY, TIN FOIL, USE THE TIN FOIL!

My last posts are not serious. Seriously.

 

[Ausir]

Fnord. TINC.

All right, let's stop with the spamming, I just couldn't resist.

 

[Neamos]

I'm kind of curious here, you're all aware this is a game, right?

What?! Go away, godless heathen!

The posts I read did not seem the least bit like stories. Even if they were stories, there is no disclaimer on the site that says “ATTN: Insane, borderline psychotic posts on this may just be stories. Please don’t take them seriously.”

Are you serious?

 

[Ureshi]

NMA u have the support from a lot of latinamericans Fans.
We dont know to write so good in english but we try

 

[syllogz]

@ the "caliber-battle" of Mr.Furry and Sorrow, with the additional help of SuAside and Ausir:

Thank you guys for this great discussion.
I think this is the best representative discussion you can provide in a thread about why NMA is so "bad". Throwing arguments back and forth, but still respecting knowledge.

Even though I do not know, or worse do not even care, about guns and calibers, it was a great read. I guess most people who lurk here enjoy these kind of conversations.

Thank you again, and carry on.

 

[Morbus]

[...] why in the world would I even consider them to use BIS's work as a basis for their games beyond name only?

Contemplate the irony and, dare I say, stupidity of this question. Do, please. I guess it serves, for me, as a very valid counterpoint. You yourself provided me the argument I needed to refute your own.

They didn't want to start a new IP from scratch, they wanted to resurrect a dead franchise.

Say, profane the corpse of a dead franchise. Some things are better left untouched, and Fallout died for a reason.

Since I don't worship Fallout as my lord and personal savior in life, I don't care if they reinvent things AND it turns out well.

That is also a problem here. It's not turning out well from what we see.

If they change everything and it turns out like shit, then I'll be right there flaming them with everyone else.

Another problem. If you don't care about the name of the game, and you just want the game, why the fuck will you complain about a game that is not yours, let's say? Why?! I don't go and complain about Devil May Cry 4. Why don't I? BECAUSE IT'S NOT MY GAME AND I DON'T CARE. That's why. Now, I am a fan of Fallout, and I have the right (and the duty) to complain if I don't like. I don't have the same right about DMC4.

Strawman, shoo! Go away!

No no, you got me wrong. That was not an argument... I was serious. I HAD the idea you were presenting valid points. Now, it would be a straw-man argument if it WAS an argument, which it wasn't.

...and a strong one at that.

No, it wasn't strong. (STRAW-MAN! XD)

Because you've seen enough of the game to make that determination. I meant setting more as in the general feel of the setting in the originals, not as in west coast - east coast.

I have not seen the game mister. Others have, and from what they said, I know enough to know they are not following the setting. Because different movies DON'T have the same setting, even though they pass on the same time and age. What about that? Prision Break, for example, has not the same setting as, say, 24. So how the hell could Fallout 3 have the same setting as Fallout 1 and 2 when it contradicts some important things of the later? How?

You haven't seen anything, so that counts for a lot.

A valid point.

ha, this is a funny one, because out of everything people gripe about, this is the one I am least optimistic about.

So what? YOU are not, *I* am. What about it?

The dialog in Oblivion was decent, but no where near at the level of Fallout. I'll be very impressed if they can pull this one off.

Me too, although I don't agree that Oblivion's dialog was decent.

Good, let's assume it doesn't, then flame Beth based on that assumption!

I don't flame based on assumptions. Others may and do, but I don't. YOU are flaming me based on assumptions.

No, it may not. I will be happy if I can play most of the game in VATS mode, but then when I'm leveled up, I won't have to wait in TB mode to fight a pack of rats or radscorpions. That was a major annoyance in the first two for me. With VATS, I can blow them away real quick and move on.

I know what you mean, but that doesn't mean VATS is good. A realtime/turn based switch would do much better, given that the game is balanced for turnbased ONLY, not for both (which is impossible) as always happens.

This is another thing you guys always do...understate your opinion after the fact. I can guarantee you there is a lot more "Bethesda fucking sucks. FO3 is going to be a piece of shit." than there is "I'm not liking the way this looks."

Again, that is what Brother None was talking about: it's the way of the interwebs. There's also much more "Halo roxorz!" than "Halo is a pretty nice and fun game"... People tend to extremize (sp?) things. But Fallout 3 sucks anyway and bethesda should be killed with death!

It's pretty rare.

No it's not.

No, I haven't made it my life's work to have a first hand knowledge of every post Roshambo ever made. Good thing you provided a link to it...oh wait.

Straw-man. I don't know every post rosh ever made sir! I know that post (and some others) because it was important, because I frequent NMA, because I am a fan, and because I am a juvenile amateur stupid gaming journalist too I'll post the link after I finish this post and after I read the whole thread.

Oh noeZ!!! My gaming creds are under teh attacks!!

I's sorry, I doesn't speaked english.

My boss just called. He is decreasing my pay 15%, effective immediately, because I don't like the same games you do and I'm an illiterate RPG player.

What?! I mean, my sis likes Ninja Gaiden, so what? Should he call that RPG's too?! Just because you like a game, it doesn't give you the right to call it a decent RPG, y'know?

Gotta love video game elitists. hahaha 2 notches higher than Star Trek elitists.

I AM elitist, but not in this case.

Download a demo.

Oh, you said "play the game", so sorry. My mistake.

BTW, most prison guards earn a lot more than $11 here in the states. haha I suppose you would freak if I told you what I make.

I wouldn't freak, no sir. I have a cousin working in LA that makes more than 10000$ a mouth, or so he told me. I have a slight idea of what is to live in states too, so I wouldn't freak

:EDIT:
(on of) Roshambo's post(s): http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=336795#336795 Enjoy the read.

 

[whirlingdervish]

This is why official previews are something lacking. You can't piss off the devs or publisher. Unfortunate, yes, but I don't see a way around it.

That's quite the fallacy there bro.

You can too piss off the devs and the publisher!
It just requires an ounce of balls.

They can bitch and whine about it later and deny you access to their next game prior to it's release, but then that will just save your from having to destroy your professional credibility by "previewing" a game by not actually playing it, and then making baseless claims about how wonderful it's going to be.


If more gaming mags were interested in credibility instead of the double paycheck they get for writing a preview and then a review, of a game, the world would be a lot better, and people might respect the gaming media.

my $0.02

 

[Morbus]

Problem is everybody knows that but nobody gives a fuck. Well, some people don't know that, but that's just they are too stupid to see what's right in front ot their eyes. Either that or they just don't want to believe it. Either way, they are stupid.

 

[Black]

Anyone who buys a DRMed game shares the crime of its existence.

 

[Sorrow]

Which I said many times.

Yet your actions are directly the opposite.

My actions don't have anything to do with the imaginary worship of Fallout.

What kind of bullshit is this? 5mm ammunition in Fallout is assault rifle class ammunition. 5.56mm ammunition in real life is assault rifle class ammunition. Since they are the same class, they have to share most statistics, to fulfill the role of assault rifle ammunition.

What? So, for example ammo for StG44 and M-16 shares most statistics?

The only thing that they have to share is fulfilling basic requirements of assault rifle - being able of controlled, full-auto fire from the shoulder and have an effective range of at least 300 meters.

Have you ever heard about things like Project Salvo, SPIW, EM-2 or HK36?

As for the point, have you thought that maybe California isn't the only state in the United States and what applies here doesn't have to apply elsewhere?

Yes, it's very logical that California uses modern calibers, while the rest of US got magically got thrown back into XX century with only a few extremely modern calibers like 2mm EC being used.
Also, it's very logical, that the Californian military is the only that uses 5mm Personal Miniguns, while the rest of US uses .223 ones .

A new round that is a century old and is less suitable to be fired at extreme rpms?

Oh, so you found the secret military ballistics analysis file in the Sierra Army Depot!

No, I just used good old common sense - if a round is lighter, has lesser caliber and is weaker, it gives lesser recoil.

Now, seeing how the round was used in defensive turrets in SAD and the Enclave instead of the 5mm ones, which was widely used for Miniguns and would be easier to use for turrets (less recoil = less stress on the frame = more durability), it's not impropable that indeed, .223 was being accepted as the new standard

What it has to do with anything? They are called autocannon turrets - it's logical that they have more firepower than individual weapons.

Now, seeing how the round was used in defensive turrets in SAD and the Enclave instead of the 5mm ones, which was widely used for Miniguns and would be easier to use for turrets (less recoil = less stress on the frame = more durability), it's not impropable that indeed, .223 was being accepted as the new standard, seeing as both SAD and the Enclave are some of the most advanced places in the wasteland.

Stop pulling things out of your ass.
Enclave in Fallout 2 moved to Gauss and Pulse weapons, not to .223.
There were no .223 Personal Miniguns in Fallout or Fallout 2, despite that Fallout 2 had new miniguns.
Security bots on the rig still used 5mm Avenger Miniguns.
Also, it's a total bullshit - 5mm, 10mm and 14mm magically disappearing due to "modernisation" and antique ammo types like .223, .30 and 7,62mm staying?

And what modernisation - US Military was moving to energy weapons, not to higher caliber.

Alone not, but combined with a weigh difference in inventory, it does make .223 heavier.

Wait, are you taking the in-game wright measurements as representative?

Why not? So, for example we can say that in fact Minigun doesn't weight 28 pounds and isn't heavier than Laser Rifle, because in-game measurements aren't representative of anything?

Anyone who buys a DRMed game shares the crime of its existence.

There wouldn't be DRM without people that buy DRMed games.

 

[aronsearle]

Hey gun nuts, answer this one.

Why is the minigun, called the MINI gun?