PC Gamer UK on NMA and AoD

[Tagaziel]

Which I said many times.

Yet your actions are directly the opposite.

My actions don't have anything to do with the imaginary worship of Fallout.

Do they? Remember your sigs and extremism concerning Fallout 3?

What kind of bullshit is this? 5mm ammunition in Fallout is assault rifle class ammunition. 5.56mm ammunition in real life is assault rifle class ammunition. Since they are the same class, they have to share most statistics, to fulfill the role of assault rifle ammunition.

What? So, for example ammo for StG44 and M-16 shares most statistics?

The only thing that they have to share is fulfilling basic requirements of assault rifle - being able of controlled, full-auto fire from the shoulder and have an effective range of at least 300 meters.

Have you ever heard about things like Project Salvo, SPIW, EM-2 or HK36?

Yes. Intermediate ammunition is similiar to each other more or less, as it is designed specifically for the features you mentioned. Also, stop drawing false analogies before you make a fool of yourself.

We are comparing 5mm assault rifle ammo to 5.56mm assault rifle ammo, not 7.92mm Kurz to 5.56mm NATO.

As for the point, have you thought that maybe California isn't the only state in the United States and what applies here doesn't have to apply elsewhere?

Yes, it's very logical that California uses modern calibers, while the rest of US got magically got thrown back into XX century with only a few extremely modern calibers like 2mm EC being used.
Also, it's very logical, that the Californian military is the only that uses 5mm Personal Miniguns, while the rest of US uses .223 ones .

On what you base the assumption that 5mm ammunition is modern? Do you remember the AK-112? Which was an obsolete design, as was the CZ-53?

We do not *know* which one is more modern. Also, check the latest developments in assault rifle technology - smaller, lightweight rounds are less effective in modern combat than bigger rounds due to their decreased lethality.

A new round that is a century old and is less suitable to be fired at extreme rpms?

Oh, so you found the secret military ballistics analysis file in the Sierra Army Depot!

No, I just used good old common sense - if a round is lighter, has lesser caliber and is weaker, it gives lesser recoil.

What? A smaller caliber and lightweight ammunition means less recoil? Tell that to .357.

Now, seeing how the round was used in defensive turrets in SAD and the Enclave instead of the 5mm ones, which was widely used for Miniguns and would be easier to use for turrets (less recoil = less stress on the frame = more durability), it's not impropable that indeed, .223 was being accepted as the new standard

What it has to do with anything? They are called autocannon turrets - it's logical that they have more firepower than individual weapons.

You did not counter the argument about lighter ammunition being more suited for such cannons.

Now, seeing how the round was used in defensive turrets in SAD and the Enclave instead of the 5mm ones, which was widely used for Miniguns and would be easier to use for turrets (less recoil = less stress on the frame = more durability), it's not impropable that indeed, .223 was being accepted as the new standard, seeing as both SAD and the Enclave are some of the most advanced places in the wasteland.

Stop pulling things out of your ass.
Enclave in Fallout 2 moved to Gauss and Pulse weapons, not to .223.
There were no .223 Personal Miniguns in Fallout or Fallout 2, despite that Fallout 2 had new miniguns.
Security bots on the rig still used 5mm Avenger Miniguns.
Also, it's a total bullshit - 5mm, 10mm and 14mm magically disappearing due to "modernisation" and antique ammo types like .223, .30 and 7,62mm staying?

And what modernisation - US Military was moving to energy weapons, not to higher caliber.

What? I'm pulling stuff out of my ass? Where did you get the "US Military moving to energy weapons" note? Winchester P94 was an industrial-grade weapon, pulse rifles were bulky and inefficent and the only remotely useful weapons for the military were laser rifles and laser and plasma pistols, all of which are very delicate and not suited for frontline combat.

Also. Where do you get the notion that 10mm, 14mm and 5mm are modern calibers? Seriously. Where did you pull that out?

Also, what makes .308 and .223 antique in Fallout? Is there any indication WHATSOEVER that they are antique?

Alone not, but combined with a weigh difference in inventory, it does make .223 heavier.

Wait, are you taking the in-game wright measurements as representative?

Why not? So, for example we can say that in fact Minigun doesn't weight 28 pounds and isn't heavier than Laser Rifle, because in-game measurements aren't representative of anything?

Given the base unit of inventory is one pound (0.45 kilograms) they aren't the most precise or representative measurement.

 

[Sorrow]

Hey gun nuts, answer this one.

Why is the minigun, called the MINI gun?

Because it's smaller than 20mm Vulcan cannon made by the same manufacturer?

Do they? Remember your sigs and extremism concerning Fallout 3?

My extremism has nothing to do with worship and all to do with conflict of interests.

 

[pnutz]

I seem to remember not too long ago that when people came here, as many recent trolls have, with problems that could described as... "obvious", they sometimes could not be persuaded to leave either from flames or logical deconstruction.

No, instead there was a simple step taken to notify others of the poster's "obvious problems" with a simple visual metaphor. I would for one nominate this system of notification to be reinstated immediately and applied to any appropriate posters in the future.

That is all.

 

[SuAside]

Hey gun nuts, answer this one.

Why is the minigun, called the MINI gun?

the minigun used onboard choppers etc in Vietnam was nicknamed the "minigun" because it was a scaled down version of the bigass mofos they used in airplanes etc.

the originals were 20mm Vulcan's. the Minigun was 7.62x51mm NATO. hence mini in comparison, but far from being puny, ye know.

 

[fallout ranger]

7.92mm Kurz

Nic to see some people know their ammo types.

What? A smaller caliber and lightweight ammunition means less recoil? Tell that to .357.

Actually bullet weight is more directly linked to recoil than is charge weight. Although not a rule, a 100 gr bullet propelled by a 50gr charge will generally kick less than a 150 gr bullet propelled by the same charge. It's called the third law of motion.

 

[Per]

The posts I read did not seem the least bit like stories. Even if they were stories, there is no disclaimer

It's awesome to know that the people who openly state that they're lying or prevaricating aren't going to put one across you in a hurry.

 

[jfreund]

On the topic of cartridges, calibers, etc, I always found it odd that the hunting rifle in Fallout was .223 and the .223 handgun was more powerful than, say, 44 mag, 45 ACP, and 10mm. My own hunting rifle is .270 and the state in which I was raised does not allow deer hunting with any caliber under .243, though I do have a friend who got a wild boar with a single (very well-placed) shot from an AR-15.

 

[EuphoricOneTriesAgain]

Also, Fallout really deserves its own engine. Its like a Mack truck of a game being powered by a ford tempo engine. It just isn't going to make it 15 feet. (Poor analogy perhaps, but im not a car guru)

I 100% agree. A lot of you folks may be getting the wrong idea, too. I was disappointed and pissed off when I watched the Van Buren trailer because I know that would have been 1000x better than anything Bethesda could put out...but that's because the greatest developers maybe ever (in my not so humble opinion) were making the game. I am also of the belief a decent-to-good Fallout game is better than no Fallout game at all.

...and I also think, who knows, maybe it will be great, but most likely not FO and FO2 great.

This same old PR fallacy again when a previewed game takes flak. The demo is not representative of the game.
The funny thing is that this flawed argument is only used to dodge bad critics. Unless you took time to actually leave comments on overexcited previews to temperate people about their irrational praises of the game too ? Yep, sure you did

Now if you aren't able or don't want to judge the direction Fallout 3 is taking based on released informations that's your call. But don't pretend noone should, because between Beth past games, the demo, good and not so good previews and actual statements of the devs there are far enough informations to do so. [/i]

Good counterpoint, but my original bitch wasn't that you guys were bashing the game, it's that NMA was pretending to wonder how they get the rep they have.

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha.
You took Something Awful, a humour site thriving solely on bashing things, seriously when they posted a quote selection of an internet forum as representative.
That's pretty damn stupid. Did you actually try to look up any of the quotes yourself and see the actual context? No?

See, you came here with a predetermined vision of the site. If you go looking for evidence to support that vision, yep, you'll find it.

You people really need to make an attempt to make this harder for me instead of readily providing me with fresh examples of all my bitches about this place.

Again, you took a tiny morsel of info (my statements about the posts by Alec), made a baseless assumption (that I read that on something awful), then treated that assumption as fact. Back in reality, I read the posts in question by Alec as he was making them since I was closely reading most of the threads on this site in the days after the release of the teaser trailer.

The SA thread wasn't until weeks later, wasn't it? Remove e-foot from e-mouth now.

Also, I absolutely game here with a predetermined vision of the site; that it was a Fallout fansite. This was well before news of Van Buren was even on the net. I developed my current opinion after continuing to visit over the years.

Information that Bethesda has released as representative of their game at this stage.
All we've been doing so far is judging that information. And we don't like that information one bit. It's that simple. You can go all 'But the game's not out yet!!!' on us, but that's horseshit. If this information is not representative of their game (or, more likely, much more positive than the actual game will be as was the case with Oblivion), then why did Bethesda release it as official information about their game? And why is everyone drawing humongously positive conclusions while at the same time deriding us as nutjobs, or people who need to wait before judging (apparently only positive judgements are allowed from previews).

Again, good counterpoint.

This 'logic' makes no sense. How does judging information that's been released have anything to do with what we think is important for the game, and how does that make us hypocritical?

Because people are not judging information that has been released, they are making assumptions, then judging based on those assumptions.

Idiotic car analogies aside, the script for this game has not been released to the public, and thus, nobody can say whether or not the story, humor, dialogue trees, and writing will be worth a shit or not.

...

Morbus, no offense, but I'm done with you for now. There is no point in debating with someone who treats a videogame like a first born son and damn near worships it. I think you might want to get some sunlight and another hobby or two.

That's quite the fallacy there bro.

You can too piss off the devs and the publisher!
It just requires an ounce of balls.

They can bitch and whine about it later and deny you access to their next game prior to it's release, but then that will just save your from having to destroy your professional credibility by "previewing" a game by not actually playing it, and then making baseless claims about how wonderful it's going to be.


If more gaming mags were interested in credibility instead of the double paycheck they get for writing a preview and then a review, of a game, the world would be a lot better, and people might respect the gaming media.

my $0.02

Unless you're an editor for a videogame magazine or a publisher, I'm going to ASSUME you have no clue what you're talking about. Since I'm not sure of that though, I'm going to leave it at that.

It's awesome to know that the people who openly state that they're lying or prevaricating aren't going to put one across you in a hurry.

Better believe it.


Also, I'm searching through Alec's post to try to find the one I'm talking about and I can't seem to find it. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else?

 

[Wooz]

Also, I'm searching through Alec's post to try to find the one I'm talking about and I can't seem to find it. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else?

Dunno, let me telepathically scan your brain for the answer.

You people are really need to make an attempt to make this harder for me instead of readily providing me with fresh examples of all my bitches about this place.

Why, dude?

Please, explain us why would we give a damn about your problems with this site's community?

This 'logic' makes no sense. How does judging information that's been released have anything to do with what we think is important for the game, and how does that make us hypocritical?

Because people are not judging information that has been released, they are making assumptions, then judging based on those assumptions.

Idiotic car analogies aside, the script for this game has not been released to the public, and thus, nobody can say whether or not the story, humor, dialogue trees, and writing will be worth a shit or not.

Well, what we *do* know are the reason why the player is sent into the wasteland, the silly way the BOS fights, NUKULAR KATAPULTS, nuclear-exploding cars, a flaming sword, toilet drinking, nuclear exploding cars, the ticket-bot scripted joke aaaaand relatively short dialogues shown in the demo.

So no go. True, we don't have the final product, only a pretty good idea of what's wrong with it in its current stage. That doesn't mean we can't criticize the bloopers we've seen so far.

So uh, "People are not judging information that has been released"?

 

[EuphoricOneTriesAgain]

Dunno, let me telepathically scan your brain for the answer.

I think you'll need a more powerful scanner.

Why, dude?

Please, explain us why would we give a damn about your problems with this site's community?

Because I rule and people should always care what I think of them?

Well, what we *do* know are the reason why the player is sent into the wasteland, the silly way the BOS fights, NUKULAR KATAPULTS, nuclear-exploding cars, a flaming sword, toilet drinking, nuclear exploding cars, the ticket-bot scripted joke aaaaand relatively short dialogues shown in the demo.

So no go. True, we don't have the final product, only a pretty good idea of what's wrong with it in its current stage. That doesn't mean we can't criticize the bloopers we've seen so far.

So uh, "People are not judging information that has been released"?

Fair enough.

 

[Paladin Solo]

...and I also think, who knows, maybe it will be great, but most likely not FO and FO2 great.

If only it didn't have Fallout 3 in the title, I'd be less scrutinizing, and might even pre-order it. But, the corporate wolves at Bethesda decided to buy the broad and dump the baggage she carried with and wants to whore the broad out to trigger-happy, eye-candy-loving kids who think Bethesda is revolutionising RPGs. And they wonder why many Fallout fans hate them. Then again, many Fallout fans wonder how the self-proclaimed fans of Fallout who happen to work for major gaming magazines happen to have the same exact tastes in gaming. And Gamestop wonders why I always turn down their free magazine subscription offers...

...Good counterpoint, but my original bitch wasn't that you guys were bashing the game, it's that NMA was pretending to wonder how they get the rep they have.

Maybe some members are pretending, but we didn't adopt the "glimmering gems of hatred" and "twelve angry guys" for no reason. I find it amusing actually. Especially when users of the other forums I visit find out I'm from NMA (congratulations, they can check profiles) and start trolling me up and down the forums. It's really amusing how those people say I should get a life and not complain about how Bethesda is raping the franchise, when they seem to be content to waste their time complaining about complainers. Too bad they don't understand the concept that I'm in no way obligated to have the same, boring tastes in games as they do. I'm not sorry for not being easily amused by shiny graphics that hog valuable system resources and a plot that a monkey can contemplate. I'm not sorry for being a consumer in a consumer-based economy.

...I was closely reading most of the threads on this site in the days after the release of the teaser trailer.

The SA thread wasn't until weeks later, wasn't it? Remove e-foot from e-mouth now.

Did you happen to notice that there are a decent amount of members who happened to like the trailer?

...I developed my current opinion after continuing to visit over the years.

I actually liked Bethesda until Oblivion was released. The lies and spin that stole my hard-earned money will not be easily forgiven. Then they decided they felt like capitalizing on a dead corpse and cared very little about the bastard children that came with it.

Because people are not judging information that has been released, they are making assumptions, then judging based on those assumptions.

Idiotic car analogies aside, the script for this game has not been released to the public, and thus, nobody can say whether or not the story, humor, dialogue trees, and writing will be worth a shit or not.

I guess people who have been to the demos can, or do you think they should be ridiculed as well for all the assumptions they're making, even if they're paid to make assumptions? Either way, Brother None and SuAside have seen it in person, and divulged their valuable information with us already. Ironically, it was a better preview than anything the top gaming magazines have shat out so far.

...Morbus, no offense, but I'm done with you for now. There is no point in debating with someone who treats a videogame like a first born son and damn near worships it. I think you might want to get some sunlight and another hobby or two.

Why do you care how he feels about anything? Because there is no point in it for you, does not negate him being able to have one. You seem to care a lot about what everyone else thinks about Fallout. Either that, or you like to waste time in something there is no point in doing, other than satisfying your desire to bitch and moan about a bunch of bitchers and moaners.

It's also very stupid to generalise an entire community based on some half-assed post. The hard-headed editor who wrote that article should take into account the dumbasses that troll this forum on a usual basis* and consider he's just adding to that garbage pile. Congratulations on his only pathetic contribution to humanity. He must feel quite proud of himself for being able capitalize on his magazine's valuable page space with something of no measurable point whatsoever, other than to pout like a two-year-old girl.

Anyways, remember kids, we must all conform to be a bunch of jackasses who are easily entertained as long as we cough up money for games and booster packs. All who do not comply are branded "fuck-wits" and "pricks". Do your part to make sure those people hear your words about their words. Freedom of speech be damned, this is the internets! Death to the consumer-based economy! You will not dare speak herecy about this crap, because I like crap and want to give it a chance so you have to shut up or you'll hurt my feelings!

*see NukaColaClassic

 

[Eoz]

Good counterpoint, but my original bitch wasn't that you guys were bashing the game, it's that NMA was pretending to wonder how they get the rep they have.

No one is wondering why NMA is getting a bad rep. What is more disturbing is that NMA is getting a bad rep because there are actually more demanding consumers who use their brain per square meter than in your average gaming site. Throw in the fact NMA is a Fallout fan site and Fallout 3 is getting next-gen fucked with everything that it does imply in terms of gameplay and literary quality and you have your answer.
Now if you want to be the fool to look at the finger that points to the sky, go on, but don't expect to convince anyone that NMA behavior is responsible of their bad rep. Hell, you are not even arguing about the released information. You are basically telling people to shut up until they have played (and bought of course) the game.

 

[SuAside]

On the topic of cartridges, calibers, etc, I always found it odd that the hunting rifle in Fallout was .223 and the .223 handgun was more powerful than, say, 44 mag, 45 ACP, and 10mm.

because it is a unique easter egg item that is a tribute to the "2019 Detective Special" aka the "Plager Katsumate Series-D" (or P.K.D., a tribute to Philip K. Dick) as wielded by Rick Deckard (Harrison Ford) in Blade Runner.

My own hunting rifle is .270 and the state in which I was raised does not allow deer hunting with any caliber under .243, though I do have a friend who got a wild boar with a single (very well-placed) shot from an AR-15.

but it cannot do so reliably every time. far too many screwups and todays hunting regulations say the animal has to suffer as little as possible. hence the rules.

 

[Bezimek]

What is more disturbing is that NMA is getting a bad rep because there are actually more demanding consumers who use their brain per square meter than in your average gaming site.

You are right


So far F3 looks very good (graphic only), but the real question of quality depends on something we can't take a closer look at :
A) dialogue,
B) storyline,
C) quests.

IMHO saying that F3 will be superb game is premature.

 

[Edge386]

We have gotten an appetizer for the storyline. Which can be compared to stale fries from McDonalds. "Welcome to Disney Land's Vault, your father is missing, now go find him!"

Dialogue may be trying to reach that bar that the previous Fallout titles set, but ultimately I fear it will knock that bar over as Morrowind and Oblivion did not even seem to show they had any knowledge of good dialogue. (If Oblivion gave you lines to say that applied to intimidating, complimenting, bragging, or joking, instead of that stupid wheel they might have been able to reach the bar) The "Calamity Jane" line seems to be around that area.

Quests, still don't know enough about how good ol B S is doing on those, but they better run run run from Oblivion's style of questing. "Destroy these 16 Oblivion gates where the maps all look the same!" Like that director in the Simspons shooting the new Radioactive Man movie. "But we need different angles! Again and again, and again and again!"

 

[whirlingdervish]

<snip>

That's quite the fallacy there bro.

You can too piss off the devs and the publisher!
It just requires an ounce of balls.

They can bitch and whine about it later and deny you access to their next game prior to it's release, but then that will just save your from having to destroy your professional credibility by "previewing" a game by not actually playing it, and then making baseless claims about how wonderful it's going to be.


If more gaming mags were interested in credibility instead of the double paycheck they get for writing a preview and then a review, of a game, the world would be a lot better, and people might respect the gaming media.

my $0.02

Unless you're an editor for a videogame magazine or a publisher, I'm going to ASSUME you have no clue what you're talking about. Since I'm not sure of that though, I'm going to leave it at that.

<snip>

You know what generally happens when you ASSUME don't you?

well in this case, you'd just be making an ASS out of U and not ME.

Try and refute my point instead of making personal attacks and attempting to disregard my post because im not a "gaming magazine publisher".

You don't have to publish a gaming magazine to have your own personal opinon about the total lack of ethics in the video game media.
(notice the $0.02 above)

If you have some proof that people would not stop looking down on the media as the scum of the earth, should they manage to show a bit of ethical behavior and not be money grubbing liars 90% of the time, then please bring it forth.

 

[Silencer]

We have gotten an appetizer for the storyline. Which can be compared to stale fries from McDonalds. "Welcome to Disney Land's Vault, your father is missing, now go find him!"

That is perhaps the thing that might surprise us (positively or negatively) the most, so I won't be making a judgement as of yet. "Your village needs a super-fertilizer" or "Get us a hydrothingamajig" don't sound to good on their own either.

As for quests, well, we've got Emil at the wheel, don't we?

 

[EuphoricOneTriesAgain]

You know what generally happens when you ASSUME don't you?

well in this case, you'd just be making an ASS out of U and not ME.

Try and refute my point instead of making personal attacks and attempting to disregard my post because im not a "gaming magazine publisher".

You don't have to be a publish a gaming magazine to have your own personal opinon about the total lack of ethics in the video game media.
(notice the $0.02 above)

If you have some proof that people would not stop looking down on the media as the scum of the earth, should they manage to show a bit of ethical behavior and not be money grubbing liars 90% of the time, then please bring it forth.

So my assumption was correct. Fantastic!

 

[Kyuu]

As for quests, well, we've got Emil at the will, don't we?

I presume you mean "wheel" and not "will?"

But anyways, the only credit Emil has that I'm aware of is being the designer of the Dark Brotherhood series of missions in Oblivion. Granted, that was probably the best quest line in the game, though that's not saying much, since most the other quest lines were pretty lackluster. However, it was also 100% linear. I found myself repeatedly wishing that I could do something different, choose to tell someone to get out of town and cover it up rather than kill them. Nope, not an option. It's either kill 'em or never finish the quest. Also, when you're being misdirected, and told to kill higher ups in the guild rather than your actual targets, it doesn't matter if you notice the change in your instructions, you can't talk to your "handler" and point it out, or anything.

So I suppose it could've been much worse than getting Emil at the wheel, it's still not anything resembling good or reassuring. And if that Megaton "blow up the town for no good reason, or don't blow up the town" is his idea of good, branching quest lines with choices and consequences, I'm not too optimistic. Then add on the sorts of things he's said in his interviews about FO3, and...

'Course, that might've been a sarcastic comment in the first place...

Edit:

So my assumption was correct. Fantastic!

Well, I assume you're not a psychologist, game developer, doctor, politician, physicist, philosopher, or theologist. So, therefore, any opinion you might have about people and their thoughts, behaviors, or relationships; how a game is made and/or its merits; medicine or healthcare; anything that's in any way related to politics; the way anything in the universe works or behaves; morals, ethics, or any sort of philosophical belief; or religion and faith is, obviously, not valid or worth consideration. Right?

 

[EuphoricOneTriesAgain]

I presume you mean "wheel" and not "will?"

But anyways, the only credit Emil has that I'm aware of is being the designer of the Dark Brotherhood series of missions in Oblivion. Granted, that was probably the best quest line in the game, though that's not saying much, since most the other quest lines were pretty lackluster. However, it was also 100% linear. I found myself repeatedly wishing that I could do something different, choose to tell someone to get out of town and cover it up rather than kill them. Nope, not an option. It's either kill 'em or never finish the quest. Also, when you're being misdirected, and told to kill higher ups in the guild rather than your actual targets, it doesn't matter if you notice the change in your instructions, you can't talk to your "handler" and point it out, or anything.

So I suppose it could've been much worse than getting Emil at the wheel, it's still not anything resembling good or reassuring. And if that Megaton "blow up the town for no good reason, or don't blow up the town" is his idea of good, branching quest lines with choices and consequences, I'm not too optimistic. Then add on the sorts of things he's said in his interviews about FO3, and...

'Course, that might've been a sarcastic comment in the first place...

That is somewhat encouraging because I agree, the Brotherhood quests are the best in the game. The storyline had a nice hook, even if it was rather simplistic.

Well, I assume you're not a psychologist, game developer, doctor, politician, physicist, philosopher, or theologist. So, therefore, any opinion you might have about people and their thoughts, behaviors, or relationships; how a game is made and/or its merits; medicine or healthcare; anything that's in any way related to politics; the way anything in the universe works or behaves; morals, ethics, or any sort of philosophical belief; or religion and faith is, obviously, not valid or worth consideration. Right?

Can you guys knock it off with the dumbfuck analogies already? I posted an opinion based on common sense and backed up by professional gaming journalists, then some kid comes on here and says "that's a fallacy. you just need balls, bro." To call something a fallacy, then provide an overly simplistic (i.e. ignorant) alternative is pretty bold unless you have some credentials to back it up.

If I walked into one of our powertrain engineering buildings and said "dude, you guys can up the compression from 11:1 to 13:1 in our high output 5.4L, you just need balls bro," they would first ask who the fuck I was, then throw me out when I told them I was from the IT department. It's the same type of situation.

Sweet analogy on my part BTW.