Perception Fallout 4 SPECIAL video

[Crni Vuk]

I take comfort in the fact that mods will come and fix what Beth has done to perks, skills, and SPECIAL.

Yeah, like the thousands of "ISO/Turnbased mod that will Fix Fallout 3".

Let us be honest, it will require to much work. More than the guys that actually enjoy the old styles of games are willing to throw in to such a project. Not that I am saying it is impossible, but if you think about it, why should someone spend no clue months of work in to a game that he doesn't even like to begin with? People adore Killaps mods for example, but he made those for a game that he already saw as a nice game and just added his flavor to it. I don't see the same really going for Fallout 4.

Some tried it with Skyrim and regardless how much I respect their effort I have to say that from the mods which tried to give Skyrims skills system more depth they all have a few serious flaws or simply could quite not deliver on the expectation. So I would not hold my breath with Fallout 4.

 

[GarouxBloodline]

You are a pretty stubborn fellow. No the Vault experiment being a retcon is no "My opinion man" it's a fact. Like it's an easily6 verified fact that the Social Experiment thing was a retcon.

Narcissist? You don't even know what that is, now do you?

Don't know if I want to read your aticles on lore when you don't even seem to know the basics of it like the Social Experiment retconor Vault 8 not even being in Fo1.

1) I made a slight error in vault mention, which I corrected right around the time you replied to me. Get over it. Latching onto an excuse to denounce anything I say, is exactly that - narcissistic.

2) I am not saying that the retcons do not exist - you are putting words into my mouth. What I am saying, is that the retcons do not detract from the evidence of vault experiments and their results seen since the 1st game. Observable information, such as each of the raider tribes that were a result of V15, being from a different ethnicity. Or when clicking on the V12 door for information, exploring the abandoned vault, and seeing the vault dwellers as ghouls in Necropolis.

 

[Hassknecht]

Any mod that attempts to fix what they did to the Special system would need to basically redesign the whole game and quests from the core. They might even need to rewrite a lot of shit.

I will explain where you are wrong:

1. Vault 15 was present in Fallout 1, and its vault experiment involved the sociological impact of shoving together various cultures, and seeing how well they would get along with each other. The result was a violent schism, which eventually led to the creation of multiple high-profile raider tribes, and the peaceful Shady Sands village.
2. Vault 12 was a Fallout 1 vault, which experimented upon radiation exposure, and led to the creation of Necropolis.
3. Vault 8 was a Fallout 1 vault, and their experiment involved re-population of the post-War wastes, as they were tasked with using the G.E.C.K.

Again, thos weren't experiments in FO1, they were switched to experiments by a Retcon later on. Vault 12 was an accident originally and Vault 15 wasn't an experiment, they just had a diverse population because they did.
Vault 8 also wasn't in Fo1, it's Vault City's original name and it was a Control Vault. The Social Experiment Retcon came in FO2 via the Enclave. Better check your sources before "proving someone wrong". I am having that "This person didn't play Fallout 1 and it's pretending they did" sensation, wonder why.

You are right about V8 - I had to double-check that, and I replaced it with another vault example. As for suggesting that these experiments did not exist in Fallout 1, that is just you imposing your opinion as fact. What is not opinion, is that these experiments did exist, the effects of which could be directly observed within Fallout 1 itself. While it is true that many experiments were not wholly elaborated upon until the Fallout Bible releases, this still does not detract from the fact that the experiments and results existed in the first place.

Again, nothing in Fallout 1 suggests that those vaults were anything but genuine fallout shelters. The idea that the vaults were social experiments was developed in the early stages of Fallout 2's development.
The fact that the vaults in Fallout 1 are experiments is a retcon. If Fallout 2 hadn't been made (or had been made differently) the vaults would not be experiments, they would just be shelters.

/edit: Continuing to get ninja'd.

You are a pretty stubborn fellow. No the Vault experiment being a retcon is no "My opinion man" it's a fact. Like it's an easily6 verified fact that the Social Experiment thing was a retcon.

Narcissist? You don't even know what that is, now do you?

Don't know if I want to read your aticles on lore when you don't even seem to know the basics of it like the Social Experiment retconor Vault 8 not even being in Fo1.

1) I made a slight error in vault mention, which I corrected right around the time you replied to me. Get over it. Latching onto an excuse to denounce anything I say, is exactly that - narcissistic.

2) I am not saying that the retcons do not exist - you are putting words into my mouth. What I am saying, is that the retcons do not detract from the evidence of vault experiments and their results seen since the 1st game. Observable information, such as each of the raider tribes that were a result of V15, being from a different ethnicity. Or when clicking on the V12 door for information, exploring the abandoned vault, and seeing the vault dwellers as ghouls in Necropolis.

I'm not sure if you properly understand what "retcon" really means. Fallout 1 had raiders. Nothing about them suggests that they are the result of some ethnical mismatch in Vault 15. That was added in Fallout 2. In Fallout 1 the Khans are just raiders. Nothing about Vault 12's door in Fallout 1 suggests that its faulty mechanism was intentional and planned. It's just a faulty mechanism, nothing more. The intention was added in Fallout 2, after the fact.
If you never played Fallout 2, nothing in Fallout 1 would tell you that the vaults are social experiments. Nothing. Because the vault experiment is a RETroactive change in CONtinuity made in Fallout 2.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Garoux, I get what those two guys are trying to explain here and really I am not the smartest guy around here. So please, don't be so obtuse.

 

[Walpknut]

You are a pretty stubborn fellow. No the Vault experiment being a retcon is no "My opinion man" it's a fact. Like it's an easily6 verified fact that the Social Experiment thing was a retcon.

Narcissist? You don't even know what that is, now do you?

Don't know if I want to read your aticles on lore when you don't even seem to know the basics of it like the Social Experiment retconor Vault 8 not even being in Fo1.

1) I made a slight error in vault mention, which I corrected right around the time you replied to me. Get over it. Latching onto an excuse to denounce anything I say, is exactly that - narcissistic.

2) I am not saying that the retcons do not exist - you are putting words into my mouth. What I am saying, is that the retcons do not detract from the evidence of vault experiments and their results seen since the 1st game. Observable information, such as each of the raider tribes that were a result of V15, being from a different ethnicity. Or when clicking on the V12 door for information, exploring the abandoned vault, and seeing the vault dwellers as ghouls in Necropolis.

Nothing really implied they were experiments at all. All the "evidence" is mostly digging up for justification and embracing the new retcon information. Also you just changed your line of argument, your initial premise was "proving me wrong about the Vault experiment not existing in FO1", did you read back on the wiki and realized I was right? They weren't experiments in FO1, they became so in FO2 and the details of the experiment weren't explained until the Fallout Bibles did it.

 

[GarouxBloodline]

Any mod that attempts to fix what they did to the Special system would need to basically redesign the whole game and quests from the core. They might even need to rewrite a lot of shit.

I will explain where you are wrong:

1. Vault 15 was present in Fallout 1, and its vault experiment involved the sociological impact of shoving together various cultures, and seeing how well they would get along with each other. The result was a violent schism, which eventually led to the creation of multiple high-profile raider tribes, and the peaceful Shady Sands village.
2. Vault 12 was a Fallout 1 vault, which experimented upon radiation exposure, and led to the creation of Necropolis.
3. Vault 8 was a Fallout 1 vault, and their experiment involved re-population of the post-War wastes, as they were tasked with using the G.E.C.K.

Again, thos weren't experiments in FO1, they were switched to experiments by a Retcon later on. Vault 12 was an accident originally and Vault 15 wasn't an experiment, they just had a diverse population because they did.
Vault 8 also wasn't in Fo1, it's Vault City's original name and it was a Control Vault. The Social Experiment Retcon came in FO2 via the Enclave. Better check your sources before "proving someone wrong". I am having that "This person didn't play Fallout 1 and it's pretending they did" sensation, wonder why.

You are right about V8 - I had to double-check that, and I replaced it with another vault example. As for suggesting that these experiments did not exist in Fallout 1, that is just you imposing your opinion as fact. What is not opinion, is that these experiments did exist, the effects of which could be directly observed within Fallout 1 itself. While it is true that many experiments were not wholly elaborated upon until the Fallout Bible releases, this still does not detract from the fact that the experiments and results existed in the first place.

Again, nothing in Fallout 1 suggests that those vaults were anything but genuine fallout shelters. The idea that the vaults were social experiments was developed in the early stages of Fallout 2's development.
The fact that the vaults in Fallout 1 are experiments is a retcon. If Fallout 2 hadn't been made (or had been made differently) the vaults would not be experiments, they would just be shelters.

Here are a couple of questions:

1) Why did Vault 12 not have an Overseer office?

2) Why was Vault 15 the only vault, then and now, to throw together such a huge culture and ethnicity clash? The schism is confirmed in-game, and the various tribes are of a different ethnicity than the others.

I do agree that the retcons exist. That cannot be disputed - but the experiments did exist, and the results of said experiment can be observed in-game without the need of Fallout Bible explanations.

 

[GarouxBloodline]

You are a pretty stubborn fellow. No the Vault experiment being a retcon is no "My opinion man" it's a fact. Like it's an easily6 verified fact that the Social Experiment thing was a retcon.

Narcissist? You don't even know what that is, now do you?

Don't know if I want to read your aticles on lore when you don't even seem to know the basics of it like the Social Experiment retconor Vault 8 not even being in Fo1.

1) I made a slight error in vault mention, which I corrected right around the time you replied to me. Get over it. Latching onto an excuse to denounce anything I say, is exactly that - narcissistic.

2) I am not saying that the retcons do not exist - you are putting words into my mouth. What I am saying, is that the retcons do not detract from the evidence of vault experiments and their results seen since the 1st game. Observable information, such as each of the raider tribes that were a result of V15, being from a different ethnicity. Or when clicking on the V12 door for information, exploring the abandoned vault, and seeing the vault dwellers as ghouls in Necropolis.

Nothing really implied they were experiments at all. All the "evidence" is mostly digging up for justification and embracing the new retcon information. Also you just changed your line of argument, your initial premise was "proving me wrong about the Vault experiment not existing in FO1", did you read back on the wiki and realized I was right? They weren't experiments in FO1, they became so in FO2 and the details of the experiment weren't explained until the Fallout Bibles did it.

I never argued, at all, that the retcons/elaborations did not happen. My argument, is that even with the Fallout Bibles, the experiments are still seen and suggested towards in-game. You could argue that these in-game observations are coincidence after coincidence, but at that point, you are giving Interplay as little credit as you give Bethesda. In the end, the retcons/elaborations that the Fallout Bibles imposed, do not detract from previously established lore/canon. Retcons do not even inherently mean changes so drastic that the facts change entirely - all the retcons did, was elaborate upon what was happening, since so little was explained in the games.

 

[Hassknecht]

Any mod that attempts to fix what they did to the Special system would need to basically redesign the whole game and quests from the core. They might even need to rewrite a lot of shit.

I will explain where you are wrong:

1. Vault 15 was present in Fallout 1, and its vault experiment involved the sociological impact of shoving together various cultures, and seeing how well they would get along with each other. The result was a violent schism, which eventually led to the creation of multiple high-profile raider tribes, and the peaceful Shady Sands village.
2. Vault 12 was a Fallout 1 vault, which experimented upon radiation exposure, and led to the creation of Necropolis.
3. Vault 8 was a Fallout 1 vault, and their experiment involved re-population of the post-War wastes, as they were tasked with using the G.E.C.K.

Again, thos weren't experiments in FO1, they were switched to experiments by a Retcon later on. Vault 12 was an accident originally and Vault 15 wasn't an experiment, they just had a diverse population because they did.
Vault 8 also wasn't in Fo1, it's Vault City's original name and it was a Control Vault. The Social Experiment Retcon came in FO2 via the Enclave. Better check your sources before "proving someone wrong". I am having that "This person didn't play Fallout 1 and it's pretending they did" sensation, wonder why.

You are right about V8 - I had to double-check that, and I replaced it with another vault example. As for suggesting that these experiments did not exist in Fallout 1, that is just you imposing your opinion as fact. What is not opinion, is that these experiments did exist, the effects of which could be directly observed within Fallout 1 itself. While it is true that many experiments were not wholly elaborated upon until the Fallout Bible releases, this still does not detract from the fact that the experiments and results existed in the first place.

Again, nothing in Fallout 1 suggests that those vaults were anything but genuine fallout shelters. The idea that the vaults were social experiments was developed in the early stages of Fallout 2's development.
The fact that the vaults in Fallout 1 are experiments is a retcon. If Fallout 2 hadn't been made (or had been made differently) the vaults would not be experiments, they would just be shelters.

Here are a couple of questions:

1) Why did Vault 12 not have an Overseer office?

2) Why was Vault 15 the only vault, then and now, to throw together such a huge culture and ethnicity clash? The schism is confirmed in-game, and the various tribes are of a different ethnicity than the others.

I do agree that the retcons exist. That cannot be disputed - but the experiments did exist, and the results of said experiment can be observed in-game without the need of Fallout Bible explanations.

1) I don't know. It's not explained in-game. Vault 15 also doesn't have an overseer's office in Fallout 2, maybe it's just inconsistency by the designers? Maybe Vault 12 and 15 were lot smaller than Vault 13 and 8 and didn't need a dedicated Overseer (remember that the graphical representation of Fallout is limited and should not be taken as all there is to the world).

2) There no mention of any ethnical clash or even any connection between Shady Sands, Vault 15 and the raiders that I know of. Where in Fallout 1 is it mentioned?


/edit: Look at it this way: When making Fallout 1, nobody thought of the vaults as experiments. That idea came later. So how could there possibly be any mention or suggestion that those vaults are experiments in Fallout 1?
Lemme make it clear: There was no intention by the developers, when making Fallout 1, to suggest any experimental nature of the vaults. Unless Tim Cain is a time traveller, or had the idea of the experiments before Fallout 2 but simply never mentioned it to anyone and did nothing with it but add some very minor hints (basically nothing but the lack of Overseer's office in Vault 12).

 

[GarouxBloodline]

Any mod that attempts to fix what they did to the Special system would need to basically redesign the whole game and quests from the core. They might even need to rewrite a lot of shit.

I will explain where you are wrong:

1. Vault 15 was present in Fallout 1, and its vault experiment involved the sociological impact of shoving together various cultures, and seeing how well they would get along with each other. The result was a violent schism, which eventually led to the creation of multiple high-profile raider tribes, and the peaceful Shady Sands village.
2. Vault 12 was a Fallout 1 vault, which experimented upon radiation exposure, and led to the creation of Necropolis.
3. Vault 8 was a Fallout 1 vault, and their experiment involved re-population of the post-War wastes, as they were tasked with using the G.E.C.K.

Again, thos weren't experiments in FO1, they were switched to experiments by a Retcon later on. Vault 12 was an accident originally and Vault 15 wasn't an experiment, they just had a diverse population because they did.
Vault 8 also wasn't in Fo1, it's Vault City's original name and it was a Control Vault. The Social Experiment Retcon came in FO2 via the Enclave. Better check your sources before "proving someone wrong". I am having that "This person didn't play Fallout 1 and it's pretending they did" sensation, wonder why.

You are right about V8 - I had to double-check that, and I replaced it with another vault example. As for suggesting that these experiments did not exist in Fallout 1, that is just you imposing your opinion as fact. What is not opinion, is that these experiments did exist, the effects of which could be directly observed within Fallout 1 itself. While it is true that many experiments were not wholly elaborated upon until the Fallout Bible releases, this still does not detract from the fact that the experiments and results existed in the first place.

Again, nothing in Fallout 1 suggests that those vaults were anything but genuine fallout shelters. The idea that the vaults were social experiments was developed in the early stages of Fallout 2's development.
The fact that the vaults in Fallout 1 are experiments is a retcon. If Fallout 2 hadn't been made (or had been made differently) the vaults would not be experiments, they would just be shelters.

Here are a couple of questions:

1) Why did Vault 12 not have an Overseer office?

2) Why was Vault 15 the only vault, then and now, to throw together such a huge culture and ethnicity clash? The schism is confirmed in-game, and the various tribes are of a different ethnicity than the others.

I do agree that the retcons exist. That cannot be disputed - but the experiments did exist, and the results of said experiment can be observed in-game without the need of Fallout Bible explanations.

1) I don't know. It's not explained in-game. Vault 15 also doesn't have an overseer's office in Fallout 2, maybe it's just inconsistency by the designers? Maybe Vault 12 and 15 were lot smaller than Vault 13 and 8 and didn't need a dedicated Overseer (remember that the graphical representation of Fallout is limited and should not be taken as all there is to the world).

2) There no mention of any ethnical clash or even any connection between Shady Sands, Vault 15 and the raiders that I know of. Where in Fallout 1 is it mentioned?

I will have to delve back into the game when I get the chance - but when speaking to a couple of the residents of Shady Sands, their history is mentioned, which includes the schism, where they got their G.E.C.K. from, and where the raiders came from. That is how Shady Sands was even founded - through the use of V15's G.E.C.K.

 

[Hassknecht]

I will have to delve back into the game when I get the chance - but when speaking to a couple of the residents of Shady Sands, their history is mentioned, which includes the schism, where they got their G.E.C.K. from, and where the raiders came from. That is how Shady Sands was even founded - through the use of V15's G.E.C.K.

There was no mention of the GECK in Fallout 1 either, that a McGuffin made entirely for Fallout 2. I think you're confusing Fallout 1 and 2 a little here.

 

[GarouxBloodline]

I will have to delve back into the game when I get the chance - but when speaking to a couple of the residents of Shady Sands, their history is mentioned, which includes the schism, where they got their G.E.C.K. from, and where the raiders came from. That is how Shady Sands was even founded - through the use of V15's G.E.C.K.

There was no mention of the GECK in Fallout 1 either, that a McGuffin made entirely for Fallout 2. I think you're confusing Fallout 1 and 2 a little here.

You know what? I believe that you are right. I am sitting here and thinking about it, and collecting my thoughts, I seem to recall that while the Shady Sands/G.E.C.K. relation was confirmed by a guy living in Shady Sands, that this was during the events of Fallout 2.

 

[Hassknecht]

I will have to delve back into the game when I get the chance - but when speaking to a couple of the residents of Shady Sands, their history is mentioned, which includes the schism, where they got their G.E.C.K. from, and where the raiders came from. That is how Shady Sands was even founded - through the use of V15's G.E.C.K.

There was no mention of the GECK in Fallout 1 either, that a McGuffin made entirely for Fallout 2. I think you're confusing Fallout 1 and 2 a little here.

You know what? I believe that you are right. I am sitting here and thinking about it, and collecting my thoughts, I seem to recall that while the Shady Sands/G.E.C.K. relation was confirmed by a guy living in Shady Sands, that this was during the events of Fallout 2.

Yes, Mikey Frazier in NCR tells you about it.

 

[Zumbs]

I take comfort in the fact that mods will come and fix what Beth has done to perks, skills, and SPECIAL.

Not even modders will be able to fix this shit. BCs betty fanboys don't like skills anyway, so unless someone from here attempts to re-add the skill system into the game(most likely impossible with the GECK) I don't see that happening.

If lack of skills is the largest problem with Fallout 4, I will count myself lucky, and applaud the impressive improvement in writing and world building of the dev team at Bethesda.

Adding skills back is likely to be quite a lot of work. Starting with the basic design and balancing, continuing with the actual additions. Depending on how perks and attributes have been implemented, it could possibly be implemented in GECK and scripting or require script extender support and a lot of manual changes.

 

[Zerginfestor]

-Watches vid-........did he just...took the magazine out of a weapon and the guy pulls the trigger with nothing coming out?...haven't the writers heard of "one in the chamber"? Pretty sure his head would have a nice hole if he attempted this.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Yeah I'm sure if they practice with weapons(like me ) they'd realize you have to chamber a round before firing, how the hell does that raider not know about firearm basics? Amateurs.

 

[TheChosen1]

The animation really reminds me of turn-based combat from the originals though.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Regarding the Vaults experiments the Fallout Wiki has this to say:

"The vault experiment was an idea created by Tim Cain during the initial stages of Fallout 2 development."

So...yeah. And it was obvious anyway, there was absolutely nothing in FO1 that hinted at soemthing else behind the vaults.

 

[Mettle]

Yeah I'm sure if they practice with weapons(like me ) they'd realize you have to chamber a round before firing, how the hell does that raider not know about firearm basics? Amateurs.

[CHA 8]It's an open bolt, clearly.

 

[Zerginfestor]

Yeah I'm sure if they practice with weapons(like me ) they'd realize you have to chamber a round before firing, how the hell does that raider not know about firearm basics? Amateurs.

I'd actually laugh my ass off if the Vault boy did the entire action with a smug look on his face, only to get bullet hole right between the eyes, with the narrator going. "Easy there, sport, REMEMBER! 'There's always one in the chamber!~'"

 

[MercenarySnake]

Yeah I'm sure if they practice with weapons(like me ) they'd realize you have to chamber a round before firing, how the hell does that raider not know about firearm basics? Amateurs.

I'd actually laugh my ass off if the Vault boy did the entire action with a smug look on his face, only to get bullet hole right between the eyes, with the narrator going. "Easy there, sport, REMEMBER! 'There's always one in the chamber!~'"

That would be satisfying and LOGICAL. They should of hired someone like you for the video.