Playing as the "evil" guy/girl - Is that possible?

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by Crni Vuk, Dec 11, 2015.

  1. Chromevod

    Chromevod Nope.

    651
    May 25, 2011
    I almost hate to bring the game up again, but Undertale did a pretty good job using a "kill everything" path as the evil route. There are even different forms of it, one is where you just kill everything you encounter through the game and progress as normal otherwise. Doing this gets you one of the "neutral" endings, because it can be argued that everything you did was in self-defense, even if you're a bit gung-ho about the affair. The alternative to that is a genocide run, where you are actively seeking out random encounters and grinding them out until the game stops giving you monsters to fight. Doing the genocide route has the consequence of most of the NPCs in the hub areas evacuating to avoid your wrath, since you're systematically hunting down and killing anyone you can find. The route also has two boss battles that are only available on this particular type of run, and they're also the two hardest boss battles in the game. To go for this route, you have to start in the first area, before you progress and get locked out of it. It's something you have to be deliberately going for to actually get started.

    Not to say every game should try to do this, or that most games don't fall flat with a kill everything route, but it can be done well.
     
  2. Buxbaum666

    Buxbaum666 Heterostructured Nanorod oTO Orderite

    Dec 5, 2003
    *Obligatory Undertale mention*

    Man, that game did not age well. I remember playing it in my teens.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2015
  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Now that you mention it, I think Kane & Lynch go pretty much in the same direction, playing criminals and such. Even with the option of Coop I think?
     
  4. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    I wouldn't count GTA as a "evil" game, any more than Fallout, you can be evil - but you can also be as moral as possible

    Even Trevor has his moral sides, he is against harassment of immigrants, he is against needless mysogynist banter, he has sympathy for the Azerbadjani torture victim

    In GTA4 Nico Belic goes out of his way to defend his homosexual friend, even through the obviously over-the-top gay-flamboyant behavior, that in most other "gangster" settings would have had bad reprecussions

    If you play a pure quest-route, avoid needless civilian casualties, then you litterally are just another criminal - not necesarily evil
     
  5. Mutoes

    Mutoes Mildly Dipped

    519
    Feb 5, 2008
    Yeah i believe so. Havent played that game myself so cant comment on it too much but looking at trailers it seems theyre not exactly upstanding citizens.

    Also, yeah Trevor has his moments of morality and he actually thinks hes defending the people he hangs out with. Still during the some of the sidequests he doesnt seem that bothered about tazing immigrants for money or shouting obscenities and threathening women or killing and maiming people because he finds them irritating, also i dont think he felt for that torture victim, in the ride to airport he says he actually enjoyed the torturing of the guy but hates government so much that he helps the guy out. He seems kinda hypocritical/shallow in his morals and i think its supposed to be that way since hes a psychopath. He doesnt seem like a bad guy tho, i think its because almost every character in gta world is kind of rotten in their own way and only care about them selves, Trevor seems like a believable response to that world. Its hard to say the main characters are "evil" but id say theyre not exactly good people either, even if you follow the main quest only.

    Yeah Gta4 was kinda different tho.
     
  6. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Yeah. It still plays reasonably well, though, and the multiplayer is still awesome (if you can find people to play with).
    It's one of those games where I'd actually like a remake or remaster. Imagine that glorious, dilapidated Art Deco decadence rendered by CryEngine3...
     
  7. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I would love a new King Pin game, or at least something that follows that tradition. Good old shooter fun!

    INSANE IN THE MEMBRANE!
     
  8. mrchaos

    mrchaos Super Orc

    478
    Nov 14, 2015
    How about the Overlord series? Granted, its more of a cartoonish evil but you do play has the bad guy.
     
  9. Mutoes

    Mutoes Mildly Dipped

    519
    Feb 5, 2008
    Oh i remembered another one. Theres this dungeon keeper style game called evil genius where you play as....... evil genius.


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
  10. DVL

    DVL Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    309
    Nov 19, 2015
    I don't subscribe to the good and evil dichotomy in video games. It's putting the cart before the horse.

    You give the player a motivation. You're a gentleman thief. You're a bank robber. You're a feudal warlord.
    You don't decide, "I'm going to be evil in this playthrough" then work your way to the motivation that way.
    It forces the player to rationalize his moral choices through silly abstractions rather than having them become a natural part of the character he's roleplaying.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  11. Vanguardbr

    Vanguardbr First time out of the vault

    66
    Jan 19, 2016
    I think Silent Hill 2 does that as well, in a more subtle way. If I say more its possible a big spoiler, but anyways in this game there is no good guy or bad guy, you can't even say that Pyramid Head, for example, is a bad guy.

    I really like how that game handles moral. Fallout 1 as well, I really like the Master lol, I would love to play as a Super Mutant in his army.
     
  12. ZigzagPX4

    ZigzagPX4 The Swiftness of the Ranger

    Nov 22, 2015
    Working towards Alpha Protocol's Halbech ending is pretty close to being a villain. As close as I've ever gotten in any RPG. Still, it's more of a "lovable rogue becomes a bit more of an asshole" than "good guy goes evil" so I'm not sure how good of an example it is.

    Running off to make your own circle of James Bond villains in an ending is pretty close to being an evil character though, especially when you do it with the help of every companion and faction you befriended through the game, it makes it feels like you've been working towards an evil ending all along. It's like "Bond Villain Origins" in that sense.
     
  13. Ben Soto

    Ben Soto Professional Salt Shaker

    731
    Jul 7, 2014
    I once did a total genocide run in Fallout: New Vegas. I OBLITERATED EVERYTHING! I played on Hardcore mode, killed all my companions, killed all named NPCs, made it a point to clear out every camp of Legionnaires, gangers and raiders out there, and, of course, I ate Caesar, too. Then I did a bad karma run of each of the DLC, and then I did a bad karma Yes Man ending, where my character ends up ruling over a city of bones.
     
  14. punkazzINC

    punkazzINC Grand Poo-Bah of The Great Khans

    8
    Jan 21, 2016
    If I remember correctly, the original Fable and Fable: The Lost Chapters were great at giving you good or evil choices. I haven't played any of the sequels though.
     
  15. ZigzagPX4

    ZigzagPX4 The Swiftness of the Ranger

    Nov 22, 2015
    Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw brought up a good point in his review of Alpha Protocol. There are RPGs that allow you to choose between different shades of good, or between good and bad, but never an RPG that allows you to choose between different shades of bad. ven Fallout games fall into the "good or bad" category. There should be a game that only presents the choices of different types of evil you can be - order and control kind of person? Chaotic, uncontrollable murderer? Manipulative sociopath capable of talking people into suicide?
     
  16. CaptJ

    CaptJ The Rival of Roquefort Hall

    587
    Jan 19, 2016
    The way that I see it there are three problems:
    1. Evil isn't fun when there isn't meaningful consequence. (consequence of evil actions)
    2. People are conditioned not to take the easy way out in video games in fear of not getting a reward or a challenge. (rewards of evil actions)
    3. With two equally difficult and equally rewarded tasks, the less evil one makes more sense. (narrative motivation)
     
  17. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Not taking the easy way out? Maybe my experiences are different to yours. But, even those few games that do give you alternatives, the "good" way is usually the easiest way out. See, let us say you have a problem. And you have two solutions. One that kills everyone, and gives you the reward and one that benefits everyone ... and gives you the reward anyway. What solution would you see as the "easier" one?
    Things would be a lot different, if the evil choice, would actually give you a much bigger reward.

    Most of the time, the options you have don't challange you. Not really. I say, if the good solution, is giving you the same reward as the bad one, it is already the easiest way of solving things. But that's not how it usually works, from a realistic point of view. If you get what I am trying to say here.
     
  18. CaptJ

    CaptJ The Rival of Roquefort Hall

    587
    Jan 19, 2016
    My point is evil actions needs incentives. Being for the sake of being evil get boring, removing consequences of being evil is bad, and making the evil option the easy way out doesn't work. So how do you incentivize evil actions? I guess you can write the victims as assholes.
     
  19. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    That's because you're getting most of the time only the option to play a psychopath. Killing for the sake of killing. What you mean, I guess, are nuances. Not beeing evil for the sake of beeing evil, but with motivations. How do they say? An open door may tempt a saint and opportunity makes a thiev.

    I am arguing, that in most games, you're beeing good for the sake of beeing good, and not because it is more beneficial than beeing evil. What is true, I think, is that it requires a lot more skill and work to write believeable choices, for "evil" characters and situations. Or it can become very fast, pretty boring.
     
  20. Stone Cold Robert House

    Stone Cold Robert House Mojave Rattlesnake

    157
    Jul 6, 2015
    At that point you're not the villain anymore, though, because you're fighting a bigger evil (or at least somebody evil enough to justify your actions). In this kind of narrative you're just a slightly less harmful asshole. But really, it's difficult to make a compelling story where you're 100% undeniably the bad guy, because you're either a complete genocidal psychopath - which plays up to the entertainment people get from killing everything, but makes any character development trivial - or there's no reason to be invested in that character at all. Which is why stories where you are a bad guy but not the villain are more common and typically more interesting.
    .