Plot Holes of Fallout 4 - Spoilers

Codsworth is the stupidest thing in the game. If I was modding Fallout 4 I would mod his pulverised remains across the street.
 
Earth said:
Codsworth is the stupidest thing in the game. If I was modding Fallout 4 I would mod his pulverised remains across the street.
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What? He was one of the very few tolerable characters in the game that I didn't want strewn across the street by my sawn-off. I had the impression that a lot of people here agree.

What was stupid about him? Apart from inexplicably making a Mr Handy into an fully-fledged AI rather than a pre-programmed bot, he was one of the characters who the writers presumably spent more than five seconds on.
 
As someone who hasn't played Fallout 4 and has no interest in whether Codsworth is tolerable or not, the teaser Todd Howard presented at E3 prior to the game's release irritated me. You have the stupid intro, where everyone's living in the '50s with robots for some reason, then holy shit, the bombs are falling! Everyone get into the fallout shelter that we may or may have actually signed up for.

Then I assume the cryogenic shit happened because Toddy-boy said, "we can't spoil our super-amazing story" then the protagonist leaves the vault, to discover that he might as well have just stayed in his house because neither it, nor its trusty robot butler was utterly obliterated by an atomic blast. Codsworth's very existence after the bombs fell irritates me, but so does his presence. Apparently he's been bumming around the same house for two hundred years waiting for you, and in all that time he didn't:

get destroyed by monsters/animals/humans/other robots
run out of power/energy/fuel/whatever
go off somewhere, looking for something to do other than wait for his most-definitely dead masters. The fact that he has AI for some reason makes this last point even more stupid.

Like I said, I haven't played the game, so chances are there are far, far stupider things than Codsworth later on. But he's the first piece of idiocy presented to the player in the post-apocalyptic world, thus I hate him, regardless of whether people like his stupid clichéd British butler shtick.

(geez, this reply went on a lot longer than I thought it would)
 
I thought the same thing before I dove into Fallout 4 and subsequently regretted the loss of my money. Trust me when I say this, in comparison to the rest of the game, he's one of the few characters who were halfway decently written. Even the lack of consistency and logic you just mentioned? That's baby levels compared to rather incredibly asinine plot points and characters you encounter later on.

I guess that in retrospect, my description probably makes you very relieved that you didn't even consider getting Fallout 4. :lol:
 
What I don't get is people's obsession with buying games on release. The $60 you spent on Fallout 4 I spent on tens of games on sale on gog.com and steam.
 
Earth said:
What I don't get is people's obsession with buying games on release. The $60 you spent on Fallout 4 I spent on tens of games on sale on gog.com and steam.
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Actually, that's what I usually do. I was aboard the Fallout 4 hype train just like every other mindless dork and broke my usual purchase habits to waste it on release. That's... kind of what lead me to NMA in the first place.

Learned my lessons sixty dollars too late.
 
Here's another plot hole I just remembered. Okay, so first of all, let's assume that the Institute has teleportation technology by the time they kidnap Shaun. Otherwise how would Shaun not become infected with radiation when the Institute themselves say that when their men went outside in FULL RADIATION SUITS they still became infected? It would make no sense.

So anyway, if they had teleportation tech, and the whole reason they took Shaun is because they wanted a pure specimen to test their experiments on, then WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T THEY BRING THE WHOLE VAULT POPULATION? There's at least 30 prime specimens from before the war in there, any of which could have been used to jumpstart gen 3 synth production, none of them affected by radiation, and the adults would probably be able to reveal a lot of things about the past to them, but what do they do instead? Leave literally everyone in there to die but take the baby for no reason outside of plot motivation. Just, what the fuck? First of all they couldn't even experiment on Shaun until he was grown up, so why didn't they just take all the adults? Plus that way they'd have more population to make more pure babies to help repopulate the world!

Second of all, why didn't they just knock out my husband/wife instead of shooting them? If they had kidnapped my husband/wife as well that would've given me much more plot motivation than some baby I don't give a shit about. I actually designed my husband and wife characters, I give way more of a shit about something I spent time designing rather than a baby I don't even know! Or, at the very least, like I said in another thread, make me a synth with my husband/wife's memories! All they need is the brain in order to give a synth someone else's memories, and my husband/wife's bran is fully frozen and perfectly intact! There's no reason they can't do it.
 
Ragemage said:
Here's another plot hole I just remembered. Okay, so first of all, let's assume that the Institute has teleportation technology by the time they kidnap Shaun. Otherwise how would Shaun not become infected with radiation when the Institute themselves say that when their men went outside in FULL RADIATION SUITS they still became infected? It would make no sense.

So anyway, if they had teleportation tech, and the whole reason they took Shaun is because they wanted a pure specimen to test their experiments on, then WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T THEY BRING THE WHOLE VAULT POPULATION? There's at least 30 prime specimens from before the war in there, any of which could have been used to jumpstart gen 3 synth production, none of them affected by radiation, and the adults would probably be able to reveal a lot of things about the past to them, but what do they do instead? Leave literally everyone in there to die but take the baby for no reason outside of plot motivation. Just, what the fuck? First of all they couldn't even experiment on Shaun until he was grown up, so why didn't they just take all the adults? Plus that way they'd have more population to make more pure babies to help repopulate the world!
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I would say "numbers", but the Institute did have teleportation.

At this point, whenever anyone asks for consistency in Fallout, add "The Institute" the same way one would add "magic" in Elder Scrolls.
 
Earth said:
What I don't get is people's obsession with buying games on release. The $60 you spent on Fallout 4 I spent on tens of games on sale on gog.com and steam.
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I hilariously thought that Bethesda could have MAYBE learned a lesson or two from New Vegas. Deep down, I knew it was going to be a shit game right off of the bat from the reveal trailer, but I went ahead and bought it anyway. One of my biggest regrets of 2015 lol
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
What? He was one of the very few tolerable characters in the game that I didn't want strewn across the street by my sawn-off. I had the impression that a lot of people here agree.

What was stupid about him? Apart from inexplicably making a Mr Handy into an fully-fledged AI rather than a pre-programmed bot, he was one of the characters who the writers presumably spent more than five seconds on.
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I hate Codsworth for the very reason you mentioned,now every machine in the commonwealth has achieved sentience and not only that but decided they have enough humanity to criticize the players actions. At the end of the day Dogmeat is the least annoying, he carries your shit and doesn't bitch when you exercise wasteland justice on the more annoying of the Commonwealth citizenry.

Earth said:
What I don't get is people's obsession with buying games on release. The $60 you spent on Fallout 4 I spent on tens of games on sale on gog.com and steam.
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Mine was a gift season pass and all.
 
Ragemage said:
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Because having the story start with you being kidnapped from a vault and used in experiments would be way too interesting and different. Better to just have you start as a guy who comes out of a vault like Fallout and Fallout 3.
 
Spacemunkey said:
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First of all, I feel bad for whoever gave you that gift now that you're probably never going to play it again even when the DLCs come out.

Second of all, yeah, it doesn't make sense for Codsworth to be sentient. None of the other robots besides Codsworth and Curie are sentient. The rest simply go along their programmed routines, such as being greeters, farmers, etc. Codsworth and Curie are, for whatever reason, the only exceptions to this rule it seems like and it makes no sense. I wish there'd been at least some sort of explanation, like maybe Codsworth was their newest model with improved AI or some shit, I don't know, just something to explain why those 2 are the only truly sentient robots in the wastes.
 
Ragemage said:
Second of all, yeah, it doesn't make sense for Codsworth to be sentient. None of the other robots besides Codsworth and Curie are sentient. The rest simply go along their programmed routines, such as being greeters, farmers, etc. Codsworth and Curie are, for whatever reason, the only exceptions to this rule it seems like and it makes no sense. I wish there'd been at least some sort of explanation, like maybe Codsworth was their newest model with improved AI or some shit, I don't know, just something to explain why those 2 are the only truly sentient robots in the wastes.
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Spacemunkey said:
The named robots at the robot farm all had AI as well, and so did that kind of skanky assaultron in goodneighbor.
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Alright, let's assume none of them are sentient and that they're all actually a result of very complex programming. What leaps in logics are still present?
 
Spacemunkey said:
The named robots at the robot farm all had AI as well, and so did that kind of skanky assaultron in goodneighbor.
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The named robots at that farm don't really have AI. It just kinda seems like it. They're all programmed to act like movie stars. Kinda like.. what's her face. Mr. House's Securitron lady friend. Jane I think. She isn't really sentient either, they're just programmed to be more human-like than other robots. Those guys at least make sense. Codsworth and Curie don't.

Those 3 at the farm were also pet projects by the creator of the Mr. Handy bots himself, so them having that sort of starlette personality makes sense.
 
I would say those robots at the farm have more than enough human like behavior to pass a Turing Test so that qualifies them as in game AI as far as I'm concerned. This is further solidified by any of the non-sentient robots in the game such as random encounter Mr. Gutsy.
 
Ragemage said:
The named robots at that farm don't really have AI. It just kinda seems like it. They're all programmed to act like movie stars. Kinda like.. what's her face. Mr. House's Securitron lady friend. Jane I think. She isn't really sentient either, they're just programmed to be more human-like than other robots. Those guys at least make sense. Codsworth and Curie don't.

Those 3 at the farm were also pet projects by the creator of the Mr. Handy bots himself, so them having that sort of starlette personality makes sense.
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Bring Codsworth with you to any other named Mr Handy, and they start conversing, with the other Mr Handy as speech capable as Codsworth is. In all senses, Codsworth's sentience is pretty questionable, since it appears every Mr Handy does have the capability. Certain ones, like Brotherhood Gutsies and Geezer at Covenant are pre-programmed to be less so, but in most other cases, Codsworth doesn't seem like too much of a leap.

Now, Curie was specifically designed to be much more complex and more superior than other robots, as evidenced by her backstory. Now, while that's acceptable, I refuse to believe that in the Fallout universe, that much could be fitted into such a small robotic body. It would've made more sense for you to find her as a ZAX unit under Vault 81, processing calculations in the making of a cure for the (ridiculously inane) mole rat disease that was present in Vault 81's questline, and you would have to bring a synth body to her directly to upload her onto it, somehow.

Hell, Curie's upload into a synth would've been more impactful if that was the case. It had all the impact of a water drop because all robots were near-sentience already, and being transferred into a human body actually seemed like a step down.

Spacemunkey said:
I would say those robots at the farm have more than enough human like behavior to pass a Turing Test so that qualifies them as in game AI as far as I'm concerned. This is further solidified by any of the non-sentient robots in the game such as random encounter Mr. Gutsy.
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I don't think Emil Pagliarulo would've ever even heard of the Turing Test. He likely wrote them to be not-AIs without realising that they have no limitations in freedom of thought, or at least not enough limitations for a pre-programmed robot.
 
I'm surprised at the use of ZAX super computers when it seems that Mr Handy's have an advanced AI equal to the ZAX. This a retcon that devalues the ZAX and the toughness of AI use. It also ruins my mod dream, where a scientist attempts to put a ZAX worthy AI into a Mr Handy, now it seems that they all have it!
 
Dr Fallout said:
I'm surprised at the use of ZAX super computers when it seems that Mr Handy's have an advanced AI equal to the ZAX. This a retcon that devalues the ZAX and the toughness of AI use. It also ruins my mod dream, where a scientist attempts to put a ZAX worthy AI into a Mr Handy, now it seems that they all have it!
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Well without that bethesdas idea for a whole synth morality dilemma would fall flat. They're thinking with their elder scrolls logic, being that machines growing sentience is "magical", like some damn pixar movie. They don't even want the technology to actually be there, they just want it to simply be so that it can be an amazing feat.
 
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