Ratio of raiders to settlers

Crossfire said:
Woah! Aren't you supposed to be the Bethesda fanboys' token representative here? What are doing criticizing FO4? You're going completely off script!
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I mean I'm seen that way, but I don't actually consider myself a fanboy, I do like the game for what it is, but like all games it has flaws. This is one of its many issues.

Edit: also, I dislike the rabid defenders and fanboys as much as the next guy. I still get shouted at because F3 or F4 are not, and never have been, my favorite Fallout games.
 
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Jubal Quintus said:
Whether or not Harold was a ghoul has been an ongoing debate for as long as I can remember. Whatever Harold is, ghoul or not, he is a special case and not the norm. As such, Harold should never be used as the model for ghoulism.
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Another exception is that ghoul under the Followers of the Apocalypse base. He claims that he was one of the Vault 13 Dwellers sent before the Vault Dweller and was dipped in FEV but was rescued later by the Followers. It's stated that he looks different than conventional ghouls iirc, but it's been a while.
 
I don't take numbers literal. Diamond City probably has thousands of residents but the game engine doesn't show it.
 
CT Phipps said:
Diamond City probably has thousands of residents
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Living where?

The stands are void of housing, and the existing buildings could barely house a couple of hundred if everyone were to sleep standing up.

At most the grounds of the stadium (as it is visually presented) might house about 100 in total, and there are certainly no 'clues' as to a bustling hive of humanity.
 
cratchety ol joe said:
Living where?

The stands are void of housing, and the existing buildings could barely house a couple of hundred if everyone were to sleep standing up.

At most the grounds of the stadium (as it is visually presented) might house about 100 in total, and there are certainly no 'clues' as to a bustling hive of humanity.
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The lore of the setting explicitly says the stands contain the "upper crust" of Diamond City so that's a contradiction of game engine to what's actually supposed to be.
 
Crossfire said:
Woah. Slow down there, cowboy. How exactly are thousands of people feed, watered and housed in Diamond City? I'd believe hundreds (maybe) but thousands is absurd.
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I suppose it depends on how we perceive the issue. Fenway Park can seat 38,000 and the question of how much is devoted to food, housing size, and how much can be built upward is an interesting one. Given Diamond City is right next to Bunker Hill, it's very possible they import the vast majority of their food from the surrounding Commonwealth. This is also questioning how many people live in the tunnels and surrounding concession area.
 
CT Phipps said:
I suppose it depends on how we perceive the issue. Fenway Park can seat 38,000 and the question of how much is devoted to food, housing size, and how much can be built upward is an interesting one. Given Diamond City is right next to Bunker Hill, it's very possible they import the vast majority of their food from the surrounding Commonwealth. This is also questioning how many people live in the tunnels and surrounding concession area.
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How we perceive the issue is irrelevant. This is not a matter of relativity. Does the game make it clear how Diamond City supports thousands of inhabitants? Is the population of Diamond City ever stated, or did you merely extract that figure from the depths of your anal cavity? Do you have any idea what a logistical nightmare it would be to reliably feed, water and house that amount of people right now in the modern world, let alone in a post-apocalyptic hellscape where there is another and and another and ANOTHER camp of mutants, raiders or whatever-the-fuck-else on every second city block?

Like I said, hundreds and that's at a stretch.
 
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Crossfire said:
How we perceive the issue is irrelevant. This is not a matter of relativity. Does the game make it clear how Diamond City supports thousands of inhabitants? Is the population of Diamond City ever stated, or did you merely extract that figure from the depths of your anal cavity?
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The question of it being referred to as a city, the Jewel of the Commonwealth, capable of housing the entirety of Goodneighbors population in addition to its current population, and the fact the Sole Survivor refers to it as a shanty town. It is supposed to be the single largest populated settlement in the Commonwealth (above ground at least) and a center of trade among all of the villages in said Commonwealth. This is also a sustainable population which hasn't resorted to inbreeding over 200 years.

If its hundreds then would any of this apply?

I'm not trying to pull things from my ass but it seems like thousands would be reasonable given its role in the game.

Do you have any idea what a logistical nightmare it would be to reliably feed, water and house that amount of people right now in the modern world, let alone in a post-apocalyptic hellscape where there is another and and another and ANOTHER camp of mutants, raiders or whatever-the-fuck-else on every second city block?

Like I said, hundreds and that's at a stretch.
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Honestly, it wouldn't be a problem when the Minutemen were still around and commerce seems to proceed reliably in the Commonwealth even with the presence of said factors.

Things are dysfunctional NOW but perhaps not always.
 
CT Phipps said:
The question of it being referred to as a city, the Jewel of the Commonwealth, capable of housing the entirety of Goodneighbors population in addition to its current population, and the fact the Sole Survivor refers to it as a shanty town. It is supposed to be the single largest populated settlement in the Commonwealth (above ground at least) and a center of trade among all of the villages in said Commonwealth. This is also a sustainable population which hasn't resorted to inbreeding over 200 years.

If its hundreds then would any of this apply?

I'm not trying to pull things from my ass but it seems like thousands would be reasonable given its role in the game.



Honestly, it wouldn't be a problem when the Minutemen were still around and commerce seems to proceed reliably in the Commonwealth even with the presence of said factors.
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Yes. Thousands would make more sense from a worldbuilding perspective but that would require actual worldbuilding and this is something that can be hard work. Working hard is something that the Bethesda writing staff seem to be taking a moral stance against.
 
Crossfire said:
Yes. Thousands would make more sense from a worldbuilding perspective but that would require actual worldbuilding and this is something that can be hard work. Working hard is something that the Bethesda writing staff seem to be taking a moral stance against.
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True, I suppose we have no idea how many people are actually in these settlements as it's just an extrapolation for our imagination.

The Republic of Dave is actually just the number of people on screen.

Diamond City is presumably not 50 NPCs, most of which are Cops.
 
CT Phipps said:
True, I suppose we have no idea how many people are actually in these settlements as it's just an extrapolation for our imagination.

The Republic of Dave is actually just the number of people on screen.

Diamond City is presumably not 50 NPCs, most of which are Cops.
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Yes, scaling things down is just the price of admission in a lot of video games. But, that said, if we are going to extrapolate the population of Diamond City, you need to set your sights on a figure that is plausible. Even if you were going to build it as a 1:1 scale replica of Fenway Park, you aren't going to sustain a population of thousands of people.

And that's not even to mention the question of WHY diamond city exists at all. What would thousands of people do all day in Diamond City? There aren't any industries, they aren't producing anything. So, what is their economy based on? If they trade with other agrarian communities, what could they possibly have to offer in exchange for food?

None of any of it makes any sense.
 
Crossfire said:
Yes, scaling things down is just the price of admission in a lot of video games. But, that said, if we are going to extrapolate the population of Diamond City, you need to set your sights on a figure that is plausible. Even if you were going to build it as a 1:1 scale replica of Fenway Park, you aren't going to sustain a population of thousands of people.

And that's not even to mention the question of WHY diamond city exists at all. What would thousands of people do all day in Diamond City? There aren't any industries, they aren't producing anything. So, what is their economy based on? If they trade with other agrarian communities, what could they possibly have to offer in exchange for food?

None of any of it makes any sense.
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Actually, my confusion isn't why Diamond City exists but why Bunker Hill does. Diamond City is a fortified town in the middle of Boston which allows the scavengers (which is a vital profession in this setting) to loot Boston of valuables which can then be sold and sent to the rest of the Commonwealth. It's also centrally located so you can have all the various Commonwealth settlements bring their goods there to sell to one another. However, for some reason, they do it at Bunker hill instead.

Diamond City is safe from Super Mutants, raiders, and so on but if they do exist then trade becomes difficult without the Minutemen.
 
CT Phipps said:
Actually, my confusion isn't why Diamond City exists but why Bunker Hill does. Diamond City is a fortified town in the middle of Boston which allows the scavengers (which is a vital profession in this setting) to loot Boston of valuables which can then be sold and sent to the rest of the Commonwealth. It's also centrally located so you can have all the various Commonwealth settlements bring their goods there to sell to one another. However, for some reason, they do it at Bunker hill instead.

Diamond City is safe from Super Mutants, raiders, and so on but if they do exist then trade becomes difficult without the Minutemen.
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Aren't you meant to be defending Toddie's game? Petey they're going to cut your salary if you carry on like this.

But seriously, you come on this forum like a troll and the next minute you're like "well this shit makes no sense!" make up your mind.
 
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