Real question: Does it bother you that Fallout 3 is canon?

[TorontoReign]

Wow you can use the GECK to fix all the problems that bother you, so Fallout 3 is such a great game, yet even with 50 good mods running I could barely tolerate Fallout 3. Of course YOU don't care about the facepalming absurdity that is Fallout 3, obviously we do, and that is not going to change anytime soon. I think it is very telling that the problems that bother you are relatively minor compared to the other glaring issues with the game, moreover I'm wondering if you even have a fucking point to all of this? So was your point to just tell everyone that they're wrong and you don't care? Great post bro.

 

[Deleted member 62454]

You mentioned not liking Terminator: Salvation. Why don't you use a video editing program to recut the movie the way you would want to view it? It's the same sort of logic you're applying here.

It's very far from being the same logic.

I'm sorry, but you don't have a logical point in any of this, again every one of your responses is based on emotion and an utter lack of thought. I understand that you enjoy the game for your own reasons, but you fail to understand that I don't, and expect me to respect your opinion, when you've not stated anything to my satisfaction.

I don't fail to understand nothing, well, only 1 thing, why you guy bash every single one Fallout 3 fan that comes here to defend the game because it has problems that not everyone cares about? this is what I'm trying to say in my first post with all the CS stuff. You are the one that isn't getting my point.

Resuming, I'm wrong about subjective things because I think different than this community, great argument guys. I'm done with this, try to being more tolerant guys, is an advice.

 

[TorontoReign]

It is pretty easy to be tolerant if you state your case clearly enough to be understood, understand that others might not agree with you, and answer questions that are asked, so that a debate can continue, instead of saying that the entire community is one way or the other, cares about problems that don't matter, and we don't get your point. The fact is: We get your point. It's been made plenty of times before. Do you get what ours is though? The entire NMA community is very diverse and not as closed minded as you might think. You say, "you guys bash every single Fallout 3 fan", when in fact, many Fallout 3 fans are members in NMA, and are treated fairly on a daily basis. What do you really know dude? I've been here since 2005 and know this community better than you do. I've read every damn Fallout 3 thread on this board, and countless other boards, and we have brought up very valid complaints about Fallout 3 and still, countless tards come here and say we are unreasonable, and complaining about nothing. Bollocks. We are not the only ones who dislike Fallout 3. Check out RPG Codex if you don't believe me.

 

[White Knight]

Hypocrite.

You took two problems 100% subjective to construct an argument against me and I am the hypocrite?

Aren't all arguments based upon subjectives? That is the entire point of an argument, to try and convince the other side/person that your subjective opinion is correct, isn't it? So how exactly am I hypocrite for trying to convince you that my opinion is right? I can't create an objective argument, because objective means it is true, it will remain the same as it is outside human perception, i.e. A is A. This why you are a hypocrite, you give your opinion, and then call others hypocrites for giving theirs. Yes, I may have used what are subjective facts and said they were objective, but that at worst makes me ignorant or misinformed, not a hypocrite.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

why you guy bash every single one Fallout 3 fan that comes here to defend the game because it has problems that not everyone cares about?

Uh...because the FO3 fans try to dismiss the problems as something that not everyone cares about? Flaws are flaws, that not everyone has a problem with them is secondary.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

You mentioned not liking Terminator: Salvation. Why don't you use a video editing program to recut the movie the way you would want to view it? It's the same sort of logic you're applying here.

It's very far from being the same logic.

How is it different, hrm?

I don't fail to understand nothing, well, only 1 thing, why you guy bash every single one Fallout 3 fan that comes here to defend the game because it has problems that not everyone cares about? this is what I'm trying to say in my first post with all the CS stuff. You are the one that isn't getting my point.

Have you defended anything about Fallout 3? No. You have completely failed to get any sort of point across, except that we are harsh towards people with an uninformed opinion.

Again, you don't like that there's a common opinion that Fallout 3 is overrated. That's about as much as you've said. You like Fallout 3 because you can explore things. That's it?

That's all you have to say about it? Again, you haven't undone anything that hasn't been said.

Why do we seem to slam every Fallout 3 fan? An application of simple logic utterly undoes every defense of Fallout 3's lackluster design. Every Fallout 3 fan tries to appeal to an emotional hook rather than an educated, informed, or intelligent rationale.

Resuming, I'm wrong about subjective things because I think different than this community, great argument guys. I'm done with this, try to being more tolerant guys, is an advice.

Again, you're wrong because you aren't saying anything of value.

The fact is, again, you don't have a leg to stand on, and are just trying to take a high ground that isn't there.

 

[Deleted member 62454]

Every Fallout 3 fan tries to appeal to an emotional hook rather than an educated, informed, or intelligent rationale.

You talk about education and rationalism?, let's look at these quotes...

Being wrong is no reason to be an asshole

Yes, because we are not mentally retarded like you.

Stupid kids. What can you do?

....besides ban their dumb asses of course. HEY FELLOW BETHESTARDS! WANNA GO TROLL OVER IN NMA!!!!11? I MADE THIS ACCOUNT AFTER FALLOUT 3 CAME OUT BECAUSE IT WAS THE FIRST GAME I PLAYED IN THE SERIES AND THE BEST ROFL LULZ...

From what I see you have posted 9 times with half of those being disrespectful , ignorant, and trollish, so you get what you give. Plenty of reason has been given for Fallout 3 being a shit game, but it's so beyond beating a dead horse it's not even a horse anymore, it's a pile of slush where a body used to be, so kindly shove off with your dumbass comments.

Honestly though, you struck the first blow Bethtard, but don't presume that I give a fuck. You won't stick around long enough to matter.

Typical LARPy "explorefag". I don't, like, care about the story, but I like to explore shit, so you guys are weird for being that way.

Yeah, getting BoS, Enclave, Super-mutants, Harold etc. is sooo subjective... damn trolls.

I'm wondering if you even have a fucking point to all of this?

Let me laugh, please.

This why you are a hypocrite, you give your opinion, and then call others hypocrites for giving theirs.

Keep putting in my mouth words that I haven't said.

Yes, I may have used what are subjective facts and said they were objective, but that at worst makes me ignorant or misinformed, not a hypocrite.

You're an hypocrite because you are using those arguments against me as a truth, when you perfectly know that aren't, only because you want to be right.

I point again at this quote from DevilTakeMe, because it summarizes very well the causes behind this kind of discussions.

One has to remember that is not unique or new at all, as it's the default mindset for most of humanity.

The problem is that before say this, you must learn to apply to yourself.

 

[Ohaimerk]

Like I said, being wrong is no reason to be an asshole. You'll get your point across better if you start attacking the ideas instead of the people.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

I point again at this quote from DevilTakeMe, because it summarizes very well the causes behind this kind of discussions.

One has to remember that is not unique or new at all, as it's the default mindset for most of humanity.

The problem is that before say this, you must learn to apply to yourself.

I have asked you for an actual argument on your behalf several times. You have willingly ignored this very simple request in order to attempt to show ignorance where it does not exist.

Now, answer with something other than misquoting other people (show the whole quote if you're going to quote me), and present your own informed opinion rather than snippy implications.

 

[Deleted member 62454]

Like I said, being wrong is no reason to be an asshole. You'll get your point across better if you start attacking the ideas instead of the people.

Many people act like as if you were attacking them personally when you attack his ideas, just look at TorontRayne posts, so your argument is invalid.

I have asked you for an actual argument on your behalf several times. You have willingly ignored this very simple request in order to attempt to show ignorance where it does not exist.

Now, answer with something other than misquoting other people (show the whole quote if you're going to quote me), and present your own informed opinion rather than snippy implications.

I'm done with you, you seem the only rational person in this thread, but you make trash of whatever argument that I say, so I'm sorry, but I don't like to loose time like this.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

I'm done with you, you seem the only rational person in this thread, but you make trash of whatever argument that I say, so I'm sorry, but I don't like to loose time like this.

If you feel I am making your argument is trash, perhaps it is because there is no argument. You have not clearly defined what your point was supposed to be. I have asked you to state your case, to which you have only replied that you are done and you don't want to spend more time on it.

Backing out with such vitriol only suggests that you had no worthwhile point to begin with.

FO1, FO2, FONV, all are far superior in many aspects, but Fallout 3 is also a good game, just consider it as a reboot and it's done.

If this was your point, then it begins with your basic misinterpretation of what a "reboot" actually consists. A reboot means the complete elimination of all continuity within that specific franchise. It's not a reset button: while those revert the continuity to a previous state, a Reboot erases it, providing the authors with a new clean slate to work on.

The basic problem here is that Fallout 3 embraces what came from Fallout 1 and 2. The Vault system, the Enclave, specifically mentioning Navarro, President Richardson, F.E.V. and including Harold and Herbert.

Is so hard for you guys to ignore those plot holes and enjoy the game?

If this was your point, then it was already answered with Moff's Law: "At some point during a discussion on a work in pop culture, the probability of someone stating a variation of "Why can't you just enjoy it for what it is?" in order to dismiss critical analysis is high."

Essentially what you've asked is for us to stop thinking about these things so much and just ignore the problems or go and fix a few bugs or a few things yourself and not rest the blame on the people who gave you the flawed product in the first place.

It just means that you have gone out of your way to suggest that people should be thinking less — that not using one’s capacity for reason is an admirable position to take, and one that should be actively advocated — you are not saying anything particularly intelligent.

You understand it that way because you guys are incapable to understand what "subjective" means, I'm not saying that you're wrong, the plot holes and inconsistences are evident, but once again, I DON'T CARE, because I play Fallout for other things.

Here is where you lose any clarity of a point. You agree that Fallout 3 has plot holes and inconsistencies, but choose not to pay attention to those problems because that's not what you play Fallout 3 for?

Well, I'm sorry for not being so analytic for the story, I'm talking behind my point of view. I don't play Fallout for the story, if I want a "good" story I'll go and play Deus Ex or Planescape. I play Fallout for it's freedom and setting, I enjoy some companion background, but the main plot is just an excuse for me to go and do whatever I want in the wasteland.

I'm not trying to excuse Bethesda in the first place, moreover, I have problems with gameplay, I'm tired of essential characters, useless quest items, ridiculously overpowered player character, lazy unique items, and more, but all I have to do is go to GECK, untick some boxes and change some values and meshes, and TA DA!, problem solved.

Here is where you completely lose any sense of a point. You don't play for the story, you don't like the gameplay - which includes the setting and exploring. You are telling me that you aren't happy with the game and tired of all those problems with the game as it is presented by Bethesda.

What I don't understand is that you clearly see the problems that I do, you even agree that Fallout 3 has a tremendous number of flaws, but then you turn right around and tell me that we should ignore all of those things at the same time and "fix it ourselves" because 80% of those problems are fixable or can be ignored, instead of saying we could have 80% fewer problems to begin with.

Does this make any sense? What was the point if you didn't even have a steady point of view?

 

[Deleted member 62454]

You clearly don't understand my point. Just leave it.

Actually, I lied before about which was the first Fallout game I played. I knew about the saga, but like I stated, I never liked TB combat. I always knew to appreciate old gems, in fact, I had played Deus Ex for the first time 2 years ago, so, when Fallout 3 was released and before finish it, I decided to try the old ones despite the combat system, it was a so amazing experience that I put aside the new game until I finished the old one. So, technically, Fallout 2 isn't the first FO game I have played, but it was the first I finished. It's clearly the best, al least for me, then I would choose NV and then FO3, I havent played the first one, I think is too limited.

The truth is that I have a certain affection for FO3, even with all his annoying flaws, after all is the game that showed me the gem that FO2 was. That's because I'm tryin to fix some of the things that I consider an obstacle to the game's liberty with the GECK.

This is so simply as that you can't understand my point because FO1 or 2 was your first Fallout.

You guys doesn't seem to be bad people like in other communities, but regarding FO3, you are very intolerants.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

You clearly don't understand my point. Just leave it.

Again, what point? You keep saying that I "clearly don't understand" when you have yet to establish a point.

Actually, I lied before about which was the first Fallout game I played.

Does it matter which game you played first to understand that there are fundamental flaws? It's not about which game you played first.

The truth is that I have a certain affection for FO3, even with all his annoying flaws, after all is the game that did me saw the gem that FO2 was. That's because I'm tryin to fix some of the things that I consider an obstacle to the game's liberty with the GECK.

And if that is true, you are welcome to like Fallout 3. As I said, I like Fallout Tactics. But again, you cannot use "just because you like it" as a defense against those flaws. I would never try to defend what I saw in Tactics.

This is so simply as that you can't understand my point because FO1 or 2 was your first Fallout.

I understand your point clearly. Here's your point: you don't have a point, you just don't want people hating on your favorite game.

 

[Deleted member 62454]

Don't ever talk to me about misquoting when you has ignored this:

I always knew to appreciate old gems, in fact, I had played Deus Ex for the first time 2 years ago, so, when Fallout 3 was released and before finish it, I decided to try the old ones despite the combat system, it was a so amazing experience that I put aside the new game until I finished the old one. So, technically, Fallout 2 isn't the first FO game I have played, but it was the first I finished. It's clearly the best, al least for me, then I would choose NV and then FO3, I havent played the first one, I think is too limited.

To say this:

I understand your point clearly. Here's your point: you don't have a point, you just don't want people hating on your favorite game.

That's not true, mainly because it's not my favorite, LOL, you are starting to be trollish.

This is not about favorite games anyway, it's about respecting people that think different than you, that's all.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

I understand your point clearly. Here's your point: you don't have a point, you just don't want people hating on your favorite game.

That's not true, mainly because it's not my favorite, LOL, you are starting to be trollish.

Argumentum ad hominem. You are using a logical fallacy to try and turn around an argument to make it about me. I've been talking about your favorite game. The one you enjoy playing because you can do whatever the hell you want and explore even though you hate everything about it and want to change it with the GECK, remember? You only think the others are better, but they're not your favorite, are they?

This is not about favorite games anyway, it's about respecting people that think different than you, that's all.

Actually, this is about whether or not you have an issue with Fallout 3 being considered canon, which you did not even answer.

Your first post in this thread showed an utter disrespect for people who think different than you.

This is like when Valve releases a new Counter-Strike: OMG AK47 SPREADING IS A THOUSANDTH OF A MILLIMETER TO THE RIGHT!!!, I HATE YOU VALVE!!!, THIS GAME IS SHIT!!!
It happened with 1.5, 1.6, CSS and is happening now with CSGO, the same overreacting every new version.

I believe you were saying something about people overreacting, when you're the person making sweeping generalizations in an insulting manner.

You know, like a troll.

 

[Walpknut]

DevilTakeMe (no homo) why are you even wasting your time replying to this guy? he is the typical FO3 fanboy that register just to write that exact message on the first thread they can find. He has nothing to say, and replying to him only validates his pointless messages.

 

[Deleted member 62454]

Argumentum ad hominem. You are using a logical fallacy to try and turn around an argument to make it about me. I've been talking about your favorite game. The one you enjoy playing because you can do whatever the hell you want and explore even though you hate everything about it and want to change it with the GECK, remember? You only think the others are better, but they're not your favorite, are they?

Yes, FO2 is my favourite, TROLL.

Actually, this is about whether or not you have an issue with Fallout 3 being considered canon, which you did not even answer.

I'm talking about my apportation, TROLL.

Your first post in this thread showed an utter disrespect for people who think different than you.

This is like when Valve releases a new Counter-Strike: OMG AK47 SPREADING IS A THOUSANDTH OF A MILLIMETER TO THE RIGHT!!!, I HATE YOU VALVE!!!, THIS GAME IS SHIT!!!
It happened with 1.5, 1.6, CSS and is happening now with CSGO, the same overreacting every new version.

I believe you were saying something about people overreacting, when you're the person making sweeping generalizations in an insulting manner.

I have to go and count how many disrespectful posts against FO3 fans you and your friends have written before?

You know, like a troll.

Yes you are a good teacher, thanks

DevilTakeMe (no homo) why are you even wasting your time replying to this guy? he is the typical FO3 fanboy that register just to write that exact message on the first thread they can find. He has nothing to say, and replying to him only validates his pointless messages.

Very opportune, but that's not true, again, you haven't read my registered date, TROLL.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

I'm not even trying to troll. You would make it too easy.

Actually, I lied before about which was the first Fallout game I played. I knew about the saga, but like I stated, I never liked TB combat. I always knew to appreciate old gems, in fact, I had played Deus Ex for the first time 2 years ago, so, when Fallout 3 was released and before finish it, I decided to try the old ones despite the combat system, it was a so amazing experience that I put aside the new game until I finished the old one. So, technically, Fallout 2 isn't the first FO game I have played, but it was the first I finished. It's clearly the best, al least for me, then I would choose NV and then FO3, I havent played the first one, I think is too limited.

I don't think I have to say anything else. I said you think the other three are the best, but this and your other posts clearly point out that you do in fact, favor Fallout 3 more than the other games.

You're willing to overlook all the problems and just go ahead and "fix" them because you show affection towards Fallout 3, despite all the flaws you agree are there. That's favoritism, is it not? Hence, does that not make this game your favorite?

Particularly, considering the next part:

The truth is that I have a certain affection for FO3, even with all his annoying flaws, after all is the game that showed me the gem that FO2 was. That's because I'm tryin to fix some of the things that I consider an obstacle to the game's liberty with the GECK.

So clearly, Fallout 3 is your favored game. As I said before, you might think the other games are better, but there's difference between what you think is the best, and which is your favorite.

Again, you just don't want people hating on Fallout 3.

 

[Brother None]

Yeah, this thread is a huge mess. Continuing headache. It was well-intentioned initially, but keeps being a problem, sadly. So, locked.

kyojinmaru, you're definitely out of line by the end here. You're really just being a troll here, and one that backbench moderates too. The debate in general is bad, but you are being the worst offender here. Not giving out strikes here to the various offenders (you're strawmanning pretty bad, DevilTakeMe), just saying, do better guys. Goes for all of you, if kyo a little bit more than others.