Real question: Does it bother you that Fallout 3 is canon?

[DevilTakeMe]

Don't consider it canon then, it's easy!, who cares about what Bethesda says.

There's a difference between "official" continuity and personal fan-based opinion.

Who cares? Fans of the works do. While we can debate all of the games as being official because they exist, we tend to listen to those who own and produce content.

And since Bethesda owns Fallout, we tend to pay more attention to what they do to expand what we all accept as the common understanding.

My personal vision of Fallout is different than others. For example, there are people who have their own personal rendition of Fallout which includes My Little Pony (see that bit in the New Vegas forum).

Our personal tastes are different, but when we come together to discuss Fallout, we aren't talking about our personal tastes, we talk what is 'official' and canon.

Whatever personal feelings I have on the matter, the core is based on a common understanding, and that's the canon.

I like Terminator and I have to deal with Salvation, what I can do?, go Hollywood and kill those bastards? no, I ignore the movie and I respect if other people like it.

I like Highlander and I hated Highlander 2 with a passion. It certainly helped when the people who made it disowned it and don't consider it part of that canon. Would it have been harder for me to remain a fan if every subsequent Highlander referred to 2 and it's alien immortals?

 

[TorontoReign]

Don't consider it canon then, it's easy!, who cares about what Bethesda says.

I like Terminator and I have to deal with Salvation, what I can do?, go Hollywood and kill those bastards? no, I ignore the movie and I respect if other people like it.

Sure, but when the very canon breaking shit that they bring about is praised? Even said to be superior or more relevant? It provokes a lot of resentment. New Vegas was tolerable at least, but Bethesda didn't make it.

 

[Deleted member 62454]

And you guys can't enjoy the first games and at the same time respect the people who likes FO3?, Bethesda doesn't point you with a gun in the head to play it, Fallout 2 will be always there to enjoy it.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

And you guys can't enjoy the first games and at the same time respect the people who likes FO3?, Bethesda doesn't point you with a gun in the head to play it, Fallout 2 will be always there to enjoy it.

Ah the old 'the old games will always be there' argument.

We aren't saying that the old games are suddenly gone, but when a sequel is made in a series fans of it rather expect that its also made to appeal to them as well as new gamers, and not just mostly to new gamers who couldn't give a damn about the series previously because of the graphics and the gameplay.

 

[Deleted member 62454]

You have NV then.

 

[Joelzania]

You have NV then.

I just want another isometric game.

 

[Deleted member 62454]

You have NV then.

I just want another isometric game.

You will have Wasteland 2 then.

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

You have NV then.

I just want another isometric game.

Can't see one developed in the foreseeable future. If isometric games have a resurgence, and Bethesda feels like it could be profitable and wouldn't damage the brand, I'd expect them to try fund a low-budget title, though they wouldn't develop it themselves. But we're talking about... years in the future.

So, yeah, for now let's hope that stuff like Wasteland 2 and Underrail is good.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

And you guys can't enjoy the first games and at the same time respect the people who likes FO3?, Bethesda doesn't point you with a gun in the head to play it, Fallout 2 will be always there to enjoy it.

If you like Fallout 3, that is your opinion. Again, there are people who like FOBOS, Twilight and My Little Pony.

I like Fallout Tactics.

That's the nature of forums and discussion. If you believe that Fallout 3 is a positive game in the grand scheme, state your case, but don't be surprised that people will question your opinion.

But if the only response you have is "it's because you guys hate Fallout 3" and putting words into other people's mouths, then you have to understand that now you're questioning the people, and not the ideas. I'd hate to point out that you have been doing exactly what you have accused the members of this forum of doing. Argumentum ad hominem.

 

[Deleted member 62454]

But if the only response you have is "it's because you guys hate Fallout 3" and putting words into other people's mouths, then you have to understand that now you're questioning the people, and not the ideas.

I'm questioning people because of all the FO3 "famous problems", 80% are subjective or fixable, only plot holes/inconsistencies and hard coded things (very few) are a real problem.

In another post you said this:

One has to remember that is not unique or new at all, as it's the default mindset for most of humanity.

Well, try to apply it to yourself.

I'd hate to point out that you have been doing exactly what you have accused the members of this forum of doing. Argumentum ad hominem.

That's simply not true. You guys are the ones that want a game out from the existance because you don't like it.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

That's simply not true. You guys are the ones that want a game out from the existance because you don't like it.

And it's because:

only plot holes/inconsistencies and hard coded things (very few) are a real problem.

 

[White Knight]

But if the only response you have is "it's because you guys hate Fallout 3" and putting words into other people's mouths, then you have to understand that now you're questioning the people, and not the ideas.

I'm questioning people because of all the FO3 "famous problems", 80% are subjective or fixable, only plot holes/inconsistencies and hard coded things (very few) are a real problem.

Right, Fallout 3 obviously has very few flaws. Like all the main factions being taken from Fallout 1 and 2, which almost no original factions in the game, with explanations that don't really make sense? That's only a small problem, easily fixable. Or how the main story takes a lot of elements from the first 2 games as well? That's only a small problem as well. And this 33 page long thread pointing out all those inconsistencies and flaws: http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49627&start=0 ? That's all subjective. You're entitled to your own opinion of Fallout 3, but don't downplay the games flaws and inconsistencies while accusing us of exagerrating them. Hypocrite.

 

[Deleted member 62454]

Like all the main factions being taken from Fallout 1 and 2

Subjective problem.

Or how the main story takes a lot of elements from the first 2 games as well?

Subjective problem.

Hypocrite.

You took two problems 100% subjective to construct an argument against me and I am the hypocrite?

Man, it's called PERSPECTIVE.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

I see you like numbers, but you got "80% subjective or fixable" from? Just some random number to prove you're right? Fair argument.

If there was no reason, there wouldn't be criticism. Obvious

Subjective problem.

Yeah, getting BoS, Enclave, Super-mutants, Harold etc. is sooo subjective... damn trolls.

 

[Joelzania]

Like all the main factions being taken from Fallout 1 and 2

Subjective problem.

Or how the main story takes a lot of elements from the first 2 games as well?

Subjective problem.

So... Subjective = Laziness, then?

 

[DevilTakeMe]

I'm questioning people because of all the FO3 "famous problems", 80% are subjective or fixable, only plot holes/inconsistencies and hard coded things (very few) are a real problem.

Actually, the plot holes/inconsistencies are so numerous, that would be exactly why I would prefer it stricken from lore.

I have zero personal issues with game play issues, as I started this thread dedicated trying to smooth over many of those atmospheric and gameplay-related problems through mods. But again, seeing this is a fan-based attempt to do so, it cannot be used to excuse Bethesda from the problems in the first place.

My problems are entirely with the plot holes and inconsistencies.

In another post you said this:

One has to remember that is not unique or new at all, as it's the default mindset for most of humanity.

Well, try to apply it to yourself.

Once again, state your case. You have yet to actually say anything aside from "You guys are wrong, and I'm right because I say so."

That's the unfortunate problem of trying to defend Fallout 3. There's nothing within the game itself or exterior logic to allow yourself to defend it.

You're allowed to like Fallout 3, but it's another thing entirely to try and defend that it has a place within the logical construction of a universe without a good reason other than "just because you like it."

 

[Deleted member 62454]

Yeah, getting BoS, Enclave, Super-mutants, Harold etc. is sooo subjective... damn trolls.

Yes it is, get a dictionary. I haven't answered your first post because it was obvious trolling bullshit.

So... Subjective = Laziness, then?

No, subjective = a problem FOR YOU, not a problem for me.

I have zero problem with game play issues, as I started this thread dedicated trying to smooth over many of those atmospheric and gameplay-related problems through mods. But again, seeing this is a fan-based attempt to do so, it cannot be used to excuse Bethesda from the problems in the first place.

My problems are entirely with the plot holes and inconsistencies.

I'm not trying to excuse Bethesda in the first place, moreover, I have problems with gameplay, I'm tired of essential characters, useless quest items, ridiculously overpowered player character, lazy unique items, and more, but all I have to do is go to GECK, untick some boxes and change some values and meshes, and TA DA!, problem solved.

Once again, state your case. You have yet to actually say anything aside from "You guys are wrong, and I'm right because I say so."

You understand it that way because you guys are incapable to understand what "subjective" means, I'm not saying that you're wrong, the plot holes and inconsistences are evident, but once again, I DON'T CARE, because I play Fallout for other things.

 

[Joelzania]

So, why are you so invested in your argument?

 

[Deleted member 62454]

So, why are you so invested in your argument?

What is invested in my argument?

 

[DevilTakeMe]

I'm not trying to excuse Bethesda in the first place, moreover, I have problems with gameplay, I'm tired of essential characters, useless quest items, ridiculously overpowered player character, lazy unique items, and more, but all I have to do is go to GECK, untick some boxes and change some values and meshes, and TA DA!, problem solved.

Can't have it both ways. You cannot say that you are tired of these issues in the game and then use being able to fix it yourself as a way to dissuade the problem in the first place.

You mentioned not liking Terminator: Salvation. Why don't you use a video editing program to recut the movie the way you would want to view it? It's the same sort of logic you're applying here. But you're choosing to ignore the entire movie, but still say that you "respect" those who prefer it.

Again, what you do to the product after you buy it is your business, and if you choose to modify the base product, that's your business, and not the business of everyone else who also sees the finished product.

Why should I have to fix it myself when I paid money to someone else for a product that I am not at least satisfied with? Just because you want to tinker around under the hood doesn't mean I want to. That's 'subjective', a word you don't seem to understand.

You understand it that way because you guys are incapable to understand what "subjective" means, I'm not saying that you're wrong, the plot holes and inconsistences are evident, but once again, I DON'T CARE, because I play Fallout for other things.

Isn't that subjective? That you enjoy Fallout for "otther things" and not for the reasons that I play it and have an issue with? I'm not you, and it's illogical to expect others to think the way you do.

But then, you care enough to question why we don't respect Fallout 3's contribution. You care enough to continually rail against an entire community with no particular argument except to generalize everyone on a forum as having the same mentality.

I'm sorry, but you don't have a logical point in any of this, again every one of your responses is based on emotion and an utter lack of thought. I understand that you enjoy the game for your own reasons, but you fail to understand that I don't, and expect me to respect your opinion, when you've not stated anything to my satisfaction.