Repairing Fallout's story from Bethesda

Dr Fallout said:
Lou Tenant is seemingly content with his role, and Marcus has no problem with being a Super Mutant.
Click to expand...

Pretty much my view that they don't remember their past lives and are effectively new people.

But that's just my take on the subject.

CerberusGate said:
INB4 the uneducated "Marcus is an evil character" comment by Phipps.
Click to expand...

Forgive me if I have not enough eye rolls for Master apologia.

"Oh, he was just going to put you off into camps to be sterialized and die off!"

:-p
 
CT Phipps said:
Pretty much my view that they don't remember their past lives and are effectively new people.

But that's just my take on the subject.
Click to expand...
As I've said, they're not new people it's just that their identity has been restarted and sped up to accept their change.
 
CT Phipps said:
Pretty much my view that they don't remember their past lives and are effectively new people.

But that's just my take on the subject.
Click to expand...
The Lieutenant is clearly an intelligent mutant so it can be deduced that he remembers who he was but prefers his new superior condition.

As for Marcus, he already has enough time to accept that the change was good for him. It's why he remarks that dipping is not completely bad (though is wise enough to recognize the flaws of dipping everyone).

If they are new people, it's only because they prefer and chose their new selves rather than have it taken away through the dip.

EDIT:
CT Phipps said:
Forgive me if I have not enough eye rolls for Master apologia.

"Oh, he was just going to put you off into camps to be sterialized and die off!"

:-p
Click to expand...
How droll, petty mockery over a position you don't agree with.

There's the trollish behavior I expected from you; took you long enough.
 
Last edited:
CerberusGate said:
The Lieutenant is clearly an intelligent mutant so it can be deduced that he remembers who he was but prefers his new superior condition.
Click to expand...

Intelligence in no way shape or form indicates a person remembers their previous life. The idea they're the same people with new loyalties seems strange as we see no indication of them ever referring to their past life and Lily's ending makes clear she struggles to remember her family.

Encouraged by the Courier to take her medication regularly, Lily's mind eventually attained a semblance of clarity. Her memories dulled by the pills, she cast aside the recording of her grandchildren, no longer remembering its significance.

As for Marcus, he already has enough time to accept that the change was good for him. It's why he remarks that dipping is not completely bad (though is wise enough to recognize the flaws of dipping).
Click to expand...

It's the nostalgia for the general kidnapping and destruction of settlements for a forced transhumanist upgrade which I see no reason to look back fondly on, any more than I do the Enclave Remnant.

Marcus may have peacefully integrated into human society but that doesn't mean his past actions are suddenly fine.
 
CerberusGate said:
How droll, petty mockery over a position you don't agree with.

There's the trollish behavior; took you long enough.
Click to expand...

Tone policing is hardly worthwhile of a poster of your experience. I don't particularly like the character of Marcus in-universe while recognizing him to be a fascinating and interesting character with a lot of moral grays out of universe. I find no reason to defend his nostalgia for the Master and find the idea we're supposed to agree with his mourning of him to be ridiculous. Even so, it makes the setting more interesting.

Certainly, I hope you're of the mind there's no need to get personally invested in the defense of the Master or his actions.
 
CT Phipps said:
Intelligence in no way shape or form indicates a person remembers their previous life. The idea they're the same people with new loyalties seems strange as we see no indication of them ever referring to their past life and Lily's ending makes clear she struggles to remember her family.

Encouraged by the Courier to take her medication regularly, Lily's mind eventually attained a semblance of clarity. Her memories dulled by the pills, she cast aside the recording of her grandchildren, no longer remembering its significance.
Click to expand...
One ending. The alternative is her schizophrenia destroying her as a thinking individual or retaining her memories at half-doses. The medicine makes it easier to handle her condition while making her lucid (and IIRC, her condition has hints of dementia added onto it). Even in 4 of all places, you can clearly see Virgil retains memory of his prior identity even after dipping. I presume that the reason why West Coast Mutants don't recall their past lives is because they've voluntarily, been conditioned to, or can only (if they are one of the dumb mutants) accept the change. It's not the dipping alone.

CT Phipps said:
It's the nostalgia for the general kidnapping and destruction of settlements for a forced transhumanist upgrade which I see no reason to look back fondly on, any more than I do the Enclave Remnant.
Click to expand...
But weren't you the one defending the Enclave's genocidal plans as being beneficial for humanity? The Master's plans were simply to upgrade humanity to a form suited to the Wasteland. The Enclave wanted to wipe out almost all life and resort to repopulation through people ill-suited for surviving in the post-apocalyptic world.

CT Phipps said:
Tone policing is hardly worthwhile of a poster of your experience. I don't particularly like the character of Marcus in-universe while recognizing him to be a fascinating and interesting character with a lot of moral grays out of universe. I find no reason to defend his nostalgia for the Master and find the idea we're supposed to agree with his mourning of him to be ridiculous. Even so, it makes the setting more interesting.

Certainly, I hope you're of the mind there's no need to get personally invested in the defense of the Master or his actions.
Click to expand...
Nah, I just find it hilarious how you could dislike Marcus and yet still be okay with the Enclave when the Enclave were even worse than him and even more insane than him.

The fact you considered my points to be mere Master apologia and mocked me for it (eye-rolls much) is similar to typical troll response to points raised.
 
Last edited:
CT Phipps said:
I love the Enclave.

I love them so much I would love to shoot them in every game they make.

:)
Click to expand...
Which is probably why Bethesda will always remake Enclave expies.

Since people 'lurve' the Enclave so much (the amount of clamoring for Enclave in 4 speculation was reaching a ridiculous high at one point).
 
CerberusGate said:
Which is probably why Bethesda will always remake Enclave expies.

Since people 'lurve' the Enclave so much (the amount of clamoring for Enclave in 4 speculation was reaching a ridiculous high at one point).
Click to expand...

Everyone wants to shoot the Enclave.

They're awesome at it.

Better than the Legion.
 
CT Phipps said:
Better than the Legion.
Click to expand...
I'd rather deal with facing a civilization that can logically be made in a post-apocalyptic environment than constantly resurrecting and recycling an already deceased group over and over again.

After all, I don't like reanimating corpses all the time.

EDIT: You do realize people wanted the Enclave back because they wanted to join the Enclave and only were drawn in by the 'kewl' factor?
 
hag said:
or if it's merely the conditioning of the Unity. it would certainly seem that they're made more aggressive, but Marcus claims otherwise.
Click to expand...
Perhaps both? I was under the impression that the Super Mutants of the West Coast were conditioned to act like violent soldiers though that does not account for the heightened aggression at times though that part was clearly being ironed out of mutant portrayals in New Vegas.
 
hag said:
after all, they might be (ostensibly) superior physically, but that doesn't guarantee they won't arbitrarily pick fights or start wars, making Unity kind of useless.
Click to expand...
Perhaps that would have been one of the long term flaws of the Unity though this flaw can be hand-waved by its leaders as temporary or capable of being fixed.
 
The Master wasn't really able to finish his experiments, and required the Vault Dwellers to continue. So that while there are problems in the Unity, it can be solved through further experimentation and full control.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hag
CerberusGate said:
Could be, not exactly can be. We'll never truly know if the experiments would be successful unless the inevitable reboot takes place.
Click to expand...
True, true but I trust the Master even though he did fail to realize his mutants were sterile... I guess he was too busy looking for Vault Dwellers and planning the rise of the Unity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hag
Dr Fallout said:
The Master wasn't really able to finish his experiments, and required the Vault Dwellers to continue. So that while there are problems in the Unity, it can be solved through further experimentation and full control.
Click to expand...
Sometimes a problem just can't be solved, all we can do is live with it.
Master maybe actually able to let Super Mutants start to reproduce through further experimentation, yes, but there also a chance something like that can not be done, and when that been revealed it may already been too late for everyone.
Perhaps stop the plan of the Master is for the best of all.
 
a721402 said:
Sometimes a problem just can't be solved, all we can do is live with it.
Master maybe actually able to let Super Mutants start to reproduce through further experimentation, yes, but there also a chance something like that can not be done, and when that been revealed it may already been too late for everyone.
Perhaps stop the plan of the Master is for the best of all.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you allow Humans that can breed, but they have to be members of the Unity. The first born child is taken to be a Mutant and the other kids become more Unity fanatics. If you disagree with the Master you can live your life out in peace, but if you agree with him you can help.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Perhaps you allow Humans that can breed, but they have to be members of the Unity. The first born child is taken to be a Mutant and the other kids become more Unity fanatics. If you disagree with the Master you can live your life out in peace, but if you agree with him you can help.
Click to expand...
It's a possible, but remember what Master want is make everyone equal, which mean he want everyone to become super mutant as soon as possible, and he won't realize super mutant can not reproduce until the moment vault dweller tell him about it, and you know what he do next when he finally know the true.
Maybe vault dweller can try convince Master to left normal human as the meaning of reproduce, but we know most normal human have no trust to super mutant back there, and by allowing normal human along with super mutants, there is difference, not just it opposed to equal, difference also cause conflict, conflict cause unstable to the Unity, three of them all are something Master don't want to see.
 
a721402 said:
It's a possible, but remember what Master want is make everyone equal, which mean he want everyone to become super mutant as soon as possible, and he won't realize super mutant can not reproduce until the moment vault dweller tell him about it, and you know what he do next when he finally know the true.
Maybe vault dweller can try convince Master to left normal human as the meaning of reproduce, but we know most normal human have no trust to super mutant back there, and by allowing normal human along with super mutants, there is difference, difference cause conflict, conflict cause unstable to the Unity, three of them all are something Master don't want to see.
Click to expand...
They have to members of the Unity to breed. Aka: People who admire and look up to Super Mutants as the next step. I'm sure they will be happy to provide their child for 'ascending'.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top