Repairing Fallout's story from Bethesda

Change the combat from Fallout 1 to something cover based, turn based and dangerous (quick kills), add more quests and expand the locations while keeping it consistent and cohesive then you've got best Fallout game, hell best game.
 
Comparing Junktown and New Reno is unfair anyway. Reno's the biggest city in 2 while Junktown's just a little resting point in 1; it's fairer to compare The Hub and Reno, they're roughly the same size.
San Francisco I don't get why people got so many problems with this place
Chinese stereotypes make up a solid half of San Francisco and scientology makes up its other half, also a lack of quality quests.
 
Comparing Junktown and New Reno is unfair anyway. Reno's the biggest city in 2 while Junktown's just a little resting point in 1; it's fairer to compare The Hub and Reno, they're roughly the same size.
I don't know how to say this, but while I love New Reno, many locations in Fallout 1 are becoming more and more my favourites. I prefer the Hub over New Reno.
 
I don't know how to say this, but while I love New Reno, many locations in Fallout 1 are becoming more and more my favourites. I prefer the Hub over New Reno.
Reno definitely suffers from being a big Godfather/Goodfellas/whatevermobstermovie reference, I always felt as though the Hub had more substance.
 
I guess it helps that the conflict is a result of a situation that could take place in a post-apocalyptic setting (greed, control and water) rather than one based on mobster fiction.
True, not to forget that the town itself had a reason to exist and that it worked well in the post apocalypse.
 
...They are expies of Nazis. They want to exterminate all life outside the Wasteland regardless of reason or logic. They can't possibly rebuild humanity with their plans and even if one points this out to them, they generally would not care to listen. At least New Vegas did something with the Enclave by making their remnants into expies of former Nazi soldiers and exploring that idea in the world of Fallout.

The reason and logic is they want to resettle the United States after eliminating the mutants and all resistance to their reign. The Vault Dwellers and Enclave will be the new humanity while the mutants are gone. Is it a workable plan? No, but it has the air of feasibility and will be able to eliminate their opposition completely without any casualties.

I also see them as EXPYs of not just the Nazis but American exceptionalism and the Brotherhood of Steel.

Paging @hag because somebody here clearly does not understand the Master here. In short, he is a well-intentioned extremist who came up with his own plan to save the Wasteland. It was insane but he can be convinced of the flaws of his plans and has a very human reaction once he realises the madness of his schemes unlike the Enclave who are generally unwilling to listen. There is a very good reason why the Master is considered one of the best antagonists of Fallout 1 and the franchise.

I'm aware of the Master. He's a transhumanist "villain" who commits suicide and destroys his home base when you bring up that all of the horrible things he's done were for nothing due to the fact his Super Mutants can't breed. He's not even "genocidal" in that he plans to sterialize those humans who surrender and put them in camps so they can die out peacefully of old age. So, just genocidal in the United States to Native Americans way than Nazi way. Even so, he's still effectively a Nazi EXPY with his Master Race plans (which he explictly calls Super Mutants).

Honestly, I have little sympathy for either his or the Enclave's ultimate goals and don't see them as fundamentally disimilar. Dick Richardson won't repent of his goals unlike the Master but the Enclave's plan is far more feasible.

I will say, for his time and even by present standards, The Master was a better realized character than most video game antagonists.

The goofiness of the game (I liked the game but understand why the goofiness is a problem and in light of Bethesda's decisions, am part of the group that criticises the goofiness of the game) is often criticised around here and the Enclave were regarded as the most shallow villains in the main franchise (until Bethesda came along and proved us wrong).

Like I said, I don't find the Enclave very shallow but then again I'm a big fan of critiquing American military-industrial policy as well as Illuminati conspiracy theories (even if they're dumb).
 
The reason and logic is they want to resettle the United States after eliminating the mutants and all resistance to their reign. The Vault Dwellers and Enclave will be the new humanity while the mutants are gone
Not Vault Dwellers. Just them and it's still similar to what the Nazis wanted: Purging an entire race (or group to be prescise). Only one Enclave character ever grows a conscious and it takes effort to even convince him to grow a conscious. The rest are comically evil villains that are highly exaggerated.

the Enclave's plan is far more feasible.
You do realise that the Unity may have actually succeeded if it was not for the Vault Dweller? A vast mutant army armed with military grade weapons, each at peak condition (even if some were stupid). Those numbers alone would wipe out any community in that time period.

The Enclave's plan may be feasible but don't sell the Unity short too to prove your point. The Lieutenant actually knew what he was doing tactically and Morpheus knew how to manipulate the masses who flock to the Unity.
 
Not Vault Dwellers. Just them and it's still similar to what the Nazis wanted: Purging an entire race (or group to be prescise). Only one Enclave character ever grows a conscious and it takes effort to even convince him to grow a conscious. The rest are comically evil villains that are highly exaggerated.

The scientist you can convince to turn against his people is one. Sergeant Rock's group of soldiers is another. Also, all of the Enclave soldiers you meet on the military base just appear to be people doing their job. You can even have a funny conversation with them at the Power Plant. They seemed very humanized to me with just an evil leader and goal. In fact, aside from Frank Horrigan and Dick Richardson, they don't seem all that evil at all.

You do realise that the Unity may have actually succeeded if it was not for the Vault Dweller? A vast mutant army armed with military grade weapons, each at peak condition (even if some were stupid). Those numbers alone would wipe out any community in that time period.

The Super Mutant army would have easily washed over California, it's true, but I point out a bioweapon is pretty effective.

The Enclave's plan may be feasible but don't sell the Unity short too to prove your point. The Lieutenant actually knew what he was doing tactically and Morpheus knew how to manipulate the masses who flock to the Unity.

Now Morpheus is a comical villain.

latest
 
Sergeant Rock's
He does not exist. Do you mean these folks, Granite and the EC company? Fact-check before you spout fallacies.(http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Granite + http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Enclave_Control_Company)
By the way, they don't really join you out of the goodness of their hearts. They join you because you are their best ride out of there.

You can even have a funny conversation with them at the Power Plant.
They threaten to kill you after that. How is that properly humanizing? All it does it make them seem more willing to devolve into angrish or indicates that many of them are inclined towards homicide.

The Super Mutant army would have easily washed over California, it's true, but I point out a bioweapon is pretty effective.
I acknowledged that. My point is that you were trying to sell the Unity short so that you could make the Enclave look good in comparison. Don't do that since any of us can throw a wrench in that argument instantly.

Now Morpheus is a comical villain.
He is and is not at the same time. He is the kind of manipulative preacher one can actually encounter in real life, one who spouts nonsense that people take faith in and believe to the point of fanaticism. He's still not as comical when compared to Dick Richardson, Schreber or Fallout 3's President Eden.
 
He does not exist. Do you mean these folks, Granite and the EC company? Fact-check before you spout fallacies.(http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Granite + http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Enclave_Control_Company)

That would be a mistake if I was referring to them by their actual name versus the nickname. Being as they're a reference to these guys.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easy_Company_(comics)

By the way, they don't really join you out of the goodness of their hearts. They join you because you are their best ride out of there.

Yep and they're not comical villains because of it.

They threaten to kill you after that. How is that properly humanizing? All it does it make them seem more willing to devolve into angrish or indicates that many of them are inclined towards homicide.

Well, you DID just help blow up their home.

I acknowledged that. My point is that you were trying to sell the Unity short so that you could make the Enclave look good in comparison. Don't do that since any of us can throw a wrench in that argument instantly.

The Enclave is awesome and I much prefer it as an antagonist than the UNITY which I think get overly forgiven in fandom and the game. I never warmed to the Marcus character, for instance, due to the fact he's an unrepentant Radiation Nazi who talks about the good old days of murdering innocents.

He and Myron should form a club.

He is and is not at the same time. He is the kind of manipulative preacher one can actually encounter in real life, one who spouts nonsense that people take faith in and believe to the point of fanaticism. He's still not as comical when compared to Dick Richardson, Schreber or Fallout 3's President Eden.

What is remotely comical about Dick Richardson? He's a lucid, competent, and subdued individual who just so happens to have the mentality of "you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs." Frank Horrigan is a ludicrous cartoon but Dick Richardson is a real life sort of bad guy.
 
Sergeant Rock's group of soldiers is another.
They rebel because if they don't they'll blow up, not exactly a deep character arch.
Also, all of the Enclave soldiers you meet on the military base just appear to be people doing their job. You can even have a funny conversation with them at the Power Plant. They seemed very humanized to me with just an evil leader and goal. In fact, aside from Frank Horrigan and Dick Richardson, they don't seem all that evil at all.
That means absolutely nothing. I'm sure James Bond has had some fine conversations with henchmen himself, doesn't make the characters any less cartoonishly evil.
The reason and logic is they want to resettle the United States after eliminating the mutants and all resistance to their reign.
But to them everyone that left the vaults is a mutant. That's the problem with their logic, and when you highlight it to a scientist he instantly sees how pointless the whole endeavour has been.
So, just genocidal in the United States to Native Americans way than Nazi way.
That's not really how the Americans killed the Indians, it was more about handing out dirty blankets and burning huts, but whatever.
they don't seem all that evil at all.
The first time you see the Enclave they shoot innocent people waving at them.
Next they kill a small family.
Then they slaughter your tribe. (depending on the order you play the game.)
Then they perform inhumane experiments on animals.
Then they kill a cool Brotherhood dude and go to get lunch afterwards.
Then they help a criminal organisation by trading with them.
Then they vivisect a whole bunch of people so that they can put a plan in effect that will result in the death of millions.
But hey, that guy you talk to on the computer at Gecko was nice (until he sends an attack squad to kill you), so all's forgiven.
Fact-check before you spout fallacies.
Don't be a prick. He got a name wrong, get over it.
Well, you DID just help blow up their home.
At Gecko? You haven't really interacted with the Enclave at that point.
I never warmed to the Marcus character, for instance, due to the fact he's an unrepentant Radiation Nazi who talks about the good old days of murdering innocents.
I'd post that gif of the hispanic (?) man pulling his hair out again, but I'm too lazy.
 
Well, you DID just help blow up their home.
You're remembering it wrong. That conversation has nothing to do with blowing them up since that call was at Gecko, long before you even reach their Oil Rig. It was essentially a prank call that ends with them threatening to trace the call and kill you over a perceived insult. In the Restoration Mod, it actually results in a hostile Enclave encounter .

The Enclave is awesome and I much prefer it as an antagonist than the UNITY which I think get overly forgiven in fandom and the game. I never warmed to the Marcus character, for instance, due to the fact he's an unrepentant Radiation Nazi who talks about the good old days of murdering innocents.

He and Myron should form a club.
You clearly did not understand Marcus then or never bothered to play New Vegas properly. The Unity was an evil faction but it was trying to find a way to ensure survival in the Wasteland. The Enclave wanted to wipe it all out.

What is remotely comical about Dick Richardson? He's a lucid, competent, and subdued individual who just so happens to have the mentality of "you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs."
He's a brainwashed loon who also adheres to the Enclave's plans of genocide without ever questioning them about it. He is plainly obvious about being evil.

Don't be a prick. He got a name wrong, get over it.
You're right and fair point, that was a disproportionate response on my part. I should focusing on how much he misunderstood Marcus instead.
 
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You're remembering it wrong. That conversation has nothing to do with blowing them up since that call was at Gecko, long before you even reach their Oil Rig. It was essentially a prank call that ends with them threatening to trace the call and kill you over a perceived insult. In the Restoration Mod, it actually results in a hostile Enclave encounter .

You're confusing two different scenes. Granite and his group help against Horrigan because they want to escape the place. The prank call is hilarious and humanizes the Enclavers some more. You also get to wander around their military base and see they're just dudes.

You clearly did not understand Marcus then or never bothered to play New Vegas properly. The Unity was an evil faction but it was trying to find a way to ensure survival in the Wasteland. The Enclave wanted to wipe it all out.

The Unity faction murders the personalities of all humans they convert into Super Mutants. The Enclave planned to rebuild humanity while the Unity wanted to replace it.

He's a brainwashed loon who also adheres to the Enclave's plans of genocide without ever questioning them about it.

Because he believes in the plan. He doesn't need to be brainwashed, just utterly ruthless in his plan. Which will work and destroy all opposition to the Enclave's dominance of the Earth.

Fair point, that was a disproportionate response on my part. I should focusing on how much he misunderstood Marcus instead.

I believe Nicole about the Unity, personally.



0:57

"We know there's evil there."

And you're right, Nicole. There is.
 
The prank call is hilarious and humanizes the Enclavers some more. You also get to wander around their military base and see they're just dudes.
No, you clearly said "You can even have a funny conversation with them at the Power Plant" in the same line. I pointed out that the conversation still ends with the soldiers threatening to kill you for a perceived insult.

I also pointed out earlier how Granite and his group only sided with you to escape with you and that can only be done with a proper speech check.

The Unity faction murders the personalities of all humans they convert into Super Mutants. The Enclave planned to rebuild humanity while the Unity wanted to replace it.
With what? Inbreds and people unsuited to life in the Wastes? At least the Unity knew what they were doing despite the fatal flaw in their plan.

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You also get to wander around their military base and see they're just dudes.
Dudes who clearly do not understand life out in the Wastes and are mostly close-minded.

Because he believes in the plan. He doesn't need to be brainwashed, just utterly ruthless in his plan. Which will work and destroy all opposition to the Enclave's dominance of the Earth.
But if you try to argue against the merits of his plans, he, in essence, plugs his ears while silently calls the guards to kill you. It's not ruthless extremism, it's the approach of a typical James Bond villain. The Master at least is wiling to listen and actually listens if you bring him evidence.


Seriously, you don't need to defend your points all the time and post like crazy. Let some be savaged and simply concede if you know you were wrong about something.
 
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Phipps, you do know the Enclave's plan is to exterminate everyone on the planet (excluding themselves) with a gas that causes the head to explode, right? You do know that when they say 'mutant' they mean 'everyone else', right? They want to kill everyone but the, let's say, 50,000 people they deem pure.
To you turning everyone on the planet into what the Master believes is the Ubermensch, and allowing those that refuse to die of old age without ever reproducing, is worse than killing everybody?
 
Well, allow me to concede that Dick Richardson's plan won't work and will lead to the extinction of humanity.

:)

Which I suppose DOES make him less competent than the Master.

Phipps, you do know the Enclave's plan is to exterminate everyone on the planet (excluding themselves) with a gas that causes the head to explode, right? You do know that when they say 'mutant' they mean 'everyone else', right? They want to kill everyone but the, let's say, 50,000 people they deem pure.
To you turning everyone on the planet into what the Master believes is the Ubermensch, and allowing those that refuse to die of old age without ever reproducing, is worse than killing everybody?

Essentially, I think they're both variations on Nazis only the Enclave is more interesting.

But yes, the Enclave will exterminate humanity with their plan and then the human race will die out because there's no ecology in the world they're creating and humanity's evolutionary bottleneck will hit a deadend.

Oh, plus the world still being eradiated thing. Can't forget that.
 
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