Repairing Fallout's story from Bethesda

CT Phipps said:
I think they're both variations on Nazis only the Enclave is more interesting.
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Master's plan is about making everyone equal, while Enclave's plan is kill everyone is not them, you don't really understand nazi's ideology do you?
 
CT Phipps said:
Well, allow me to concede that Dick Richardson's plan won't work and will lead to the extinction of humanity.
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Well, his plan works if not for the Chosen One but it's more about the morality of the thing.
a721402 said:
Master's plan is about making everyone equal, while Enclave's plan is kill everyone is not them, you don't really understand nazi's ideology do you?
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I thought the Nazi's ideological plan was to get rid of everyone that wasn't them, or the other races of Western Europe.
 
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a721402 said:
Master's plan is about making everyone equal, while Enclave's plan is kill everyone is not them, you don't really understand nazi's ideology do you?
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I also believe the Railroad's brain wipes effectively murders the Synth. As for making everyone equal, it's about replacing humanity with his Master Race. It's like Hitler had a magic tub which could turn everyone white, blue-eyed, and remove all memory of their past lives.

The Master recanted of his actions but I don't feel the need to think of them with anything but the harshest of beliefs. I think he's a great deal below Caesar, who at least only wants to conquer the Wasteland.
 
CT Phipps said:
Caesar, who at least only wants to conquer the Wasteland.
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As an aside, didn't we have a discussion on how this is not the entire case? That there is more to Caesar and the Legion than meets the eye?

Please try to be more open-minded. Many here are capable of doing so when discussing the Legion...
 
a721402 said:
Made up some science fiction story will not stronger your point in an argument, only make it weaker
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I don't see how I need to defend my point turning people into hulking rage monsters against their will out of a desire to destroy humanity as a species is....bad. :)

CerberusGate said:
As an aside, didn't we have a discussion on how this is not the entire case? That there is more to Caesar and the Legion than meets the eye?

Please try to be more open-minded. Many here are capable of doing so when discussing the Legion...
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I'm not exaggerating when I say if I have to choose between Caesar and the Master, I'll very reluctantly side with Caesar. Your arguments help me believe that.

So you win that one handily. :thumbs up:
 
CT Phipps said:
I'm not exaggerating when I say if I have to choose between Caesar and the Master, I'll very reluctantly side with Caesar. Your arguments help me believe that.
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As a massive Caesar fan, I'll side with the Master every time. Caesar will kill your family, brainwash you and turn you into one of his rabid fanboys. The Master will either dip you if you want (he'll only force it if you're a Vault Dweller and have a higher chance of success) or sterilize you and let you live your last days in peace.
 
Dr Fallout said:
As a massive Caesar fan, I'll side with the Master every time. Caesar will kill your family, brainwash you and turn you into one of his rabid fanboys. The Master will either dip you if you want (he'll only force it if you're a Vault Dweller and have a higher chance of success) or sterilize you and let you live your last days in peace.
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Dipping is worse than death. :)
 
CT Phipps said:
Dipping is worse than death. :)
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Why? Remember, that only people who have the perfect conditions are forced to dip which gives them the larger chance of more intelligence, strength, resistance and ability.

It's not a forced decision, and you can just live your life in a camp, well cared for.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Why? Remember, that only people who have the perfect conditions are forced to dip which gives them the larger chance of more intelligence, strength, resistance and ability.

It's not a forced decision, and you can just live your life in a camp, well cared for.
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Forced sterialization and internment camps are RL war crimes. It's basically the same thing done to many RL minorities.

And as Lily shows, dipping destroys your original identity so it's effectively murder.

Just saying.
 
CT Phipps said:
Forced sterialization and internment camps are RL war crimes. It's basically the same thing done to many RL minorities.

And as Lily shows, dipping destroys your original identity so it's effectively murder.

Just saying.
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Except they're not going to abuse you, kill you or repress you. It's implied that once they'll sterilize you they merely leave you alone and let you be to do what ever you want, AS LONG as it does not harm or endanger the Unity. That's not the worst thing in the world, as the only difference is that they make it so you can't have kids.

Again, it's a decision and let me remind you that your identity is formed not by your personal characteristics but your surroundings and environment. Being born in Soviet Russia would make your identity totally different if you were born in Classical Greece. He's merely restarting that process and speeding it up.
 
CT Phipps said:
And as Lily shows, dipping destroys your original identity so it's effectively murder.
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Lily clearly remembers her family and still cares about them so her identity is still there, it's just her physical appearance does not represent her but it's clear she's the same lovable grandma beneath it all.

The schizophrenia and the violent personality shifts she experiences is a result of the excessive Stealth Boy use, not the dipping.
 
CerberusGate said:
Lily clearly remembers her family and still cares about them so her identity is still there, it's just her physical appearance does not represent her but it's clear she's the same lovable grandma beneath it all.

The schizophrenia and the violent personality shifts she experiences is a result of the excessive Stealth Boy use, not the dipping.
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Heh, yeah there is that.

And the schizophrenia is the fault of the Stealth Boy, as that was apparently a side effect in Humans before the Great War.
 
CerberusGate said:
Lily clearly remembers her family and still cares about them so her identity is still there, it's just her physical appearance does not represent her but it's clear she's the same lovable grandma beneath it all.

The schizophrenia and the violent personality shifts she experiences is a result of the excessive Stealth Boy use, not the dipping.
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Actually, isn't that WHY she remembers her family? None of the other Super Mutants show any sign of remembering their past lives.
 
CT Phipps said:
None of the other Super Mutants show any sign of remembering their past lives
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Why would they? And no, the schizophrenia does not preserve identity. We can clearly see that the other Nightkin differ from Lily in their schizophrenia which meant that her identity survived the dipping and was not conditioned out of her (she did refer to the Master as a very bad man after all in contrast to the other Nightkin).

As @Dr Fallout points out, they have no need to. The ones in the Master's Army have adjusted to their new conditions happily and learned to live with it. Some may even find their new forms preferable since they are all in peak condition, are more suited to surviving in the post-apocalyptic world (aside from being sterile but I imagine an elder person with a full life may not oppose dipping if they want to live longer and do not mind the loss of intelligence) and may now have actual purpose in life.
 
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