Repairing Fallout's story from Bethesda

Dr Fallout said:
CT Phipps, we're working from different histories. One is presented by Bethesda and the other by the original games and is helped partly by New Vegas. Also, one of the reasons the Chinese invasion of Alaska stalls, as does the American invasion of China is because BOTH factions run out of gear and equipment. The ENTIRE point of the Chinese invasion was a last ditch attempt to stop the Americans from 'winning' as they had the best industry (albeit plagued by disease, dissent and death) and were running out fast. Hence from the history presented by the Bible China CANNOT invade the East coast, as they attacked from a position of weakness.
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I think the problem we're having is the fact that China attacking the East Coast is one they cannot win with or sustain but which, nevertheless could very well have happened as history is full of people not surrendering and attacking despite not having the resources to wage attacks.

The Chinese government and American fascist government both displayed a willingness to suffer nuclear attack if it meant victory.

In short:

"Yes, you're absolutely right it was an idiotic move to attack the East Coast. However, so was nuking America."

SarcasticGoodGuy said:
@CT Phipps You need to know when to give up. Like you make some good points on other threads but you're so wrong here :shrug:
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No fictional military commander can be as stupid as some of the ones in RL. :)
 
SarcasticGoodGuy said:
@DirtyOldShoe You're a savage. :clap:

@CT Phipps You need to know when to give up. Like you make some good points on other threads but you're so wrong here :shrug:
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I took a break from the forum for a moment. I shit in a bag and started huffing it. I thought, "Am I back online talking with @CT Phipps Am I playing Fallout 4? I was resuscitated by a local paramedic and I'm back. What did I miss?
 
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CT Phipps said:
We don't know the level of technology the Chinese are capable of as our only example of their technology in battle is the Yangtze Submarine, the weapons they left behind, and the highly inaccurate Operation: Anchorage.
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Have no information about china is not a excuse to believe china can afford to install expensive nuclear reactor to every single of their military transport ship.
 
a721402 said:
Have no information about china is not a excuse to believe china can afford to install expensive nuclear reactor to every single of their military transport ship.
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America can afford to install them in their cars and a large section of their infantry suits. We're dealing with a strange strange world. Codsworth runs for 200 years without battery recharging. We're dealing with technology which renders the whole concept of "running out of power" redundant.

I think this underlines how pointless and wasteful the war was rather than contradicts it.
 
CT Phipps said:
America can afford to install them in their cars and a large section of their infantry suits. We're dealing with a strange strange world.
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You totally forgot US is the only country holding most of the natural oil resources on earth back there, which give they economic advantage to every other countries.
 
DirtyOldShoe said:
I took a break from the forum for a moment. I shit in a bag and started huffing it. I thought, "Am I back online talking with @CT Phipps Am I playing Fallout 4? I was resuscitated by a local paramedic and I'm back. What did I miss?
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Someone basing their theory on Bethesda's lore.
Nothing surprising like this on places like Sugarbombed, but NMA? He's really dedicated with whatever he's doing (still don't know if he's a troll)
 
a721402 said:
You totally forgot US is the only country holding most of the natural oil resources on earth back there, which give they economic advantage to every other countries.
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At the risk of pointing it out, I believe China must have enough resources to be a comparable state if not as many since it is capable of fighting America to a standstill.

And all other nations have collapsed.
 
CT Phipps said:
We're dealing with alternate history so I think it's important to try to separate ourselves from RL history. We don't know the level of technology the Chinese are capable of as our only example of their technology in battle is the Yangtze Submarine, the weapons they left behind, and the highly inaccurate Operation: Anchorage.

I would also question the use of the term "Outdated Bomb" because we do see that the results of the atomic bombs they use are effectively neutron bombs in that they're designed to Cathargian "salt the Earth" and have centuries of radioactive mutated Fallout versus pure destruction. While this is outdated compared to an ICBM, I remind you the US is having Liberty Prime literally THROW their bombs.

Obviously, there's more than submarines being used as the Chinese would need aircraft carriers for their bombers (unless they're some kind of nuclear powered variant which doesn't need conventional fuel). As for hostile waters, the Fall of Europe means that the patrol roots of the US Navy are the only things the Chinese have to worry about.
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Actually the Fallout Bible does well as a source... anyway, the weapons the Chinese leave are consistently outdated and weaker in comparison to US gear, which should act as general evidence of their overall military technology being outdated. The only example of being advanced in a field is with their stealth suits, everything else is implied to be old and weak in comparison to the US. Firstly it's outdated because there's the obvious presence of ICBM's and also, DON'T USE FALLOUT 3 AS EVIDENCE FOR ANY OF FALLOUT'S HISTORY!!!

CT Phipps said:
They could have been and probably were. Of course, the nature of the conflict is that it is a conflict between militant war-hungry resource-starved expanionist powers deeply involved in ideological power games. Also, that the world was already collapsing into anarchy. Furthermore, the assumption that wise military decisions will be made in times of chaos, paranoia, and global conflict do not reflect history or the human mindset.

As released Soviet documents stated, generals were stunned at the assumption the United States believed a conflict would be a conventional war which escalated to a nuclear one while Soviet plans were first strike with nuclear weapons with no plans for a conventional war.

This shows the Chinese and Americans in this universe were on the same page until the end.
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:roffle:
Stop, please stop. You literally said 'they could' and 'probably' while leaving it there. You consistently fail to provide support and logical arguments about a fleet based East coast invasion. How can I take you seriously because of this? But it's utterly, utterly stupid. No nation's military would fail to realize that invading America from the East Coast is impossible to win and impossible to achieve (I don't see any argument against that).

Also, the US navy is probably much better and much stronger then the Chinese who are on their last legs.

CT Phipps said:
I think the problem we're having is the fact that China attacking the East Coast is one they cannot win with or sustain but which, nevertheless could very well have happened as history is full of people not surrendering and attacking despite not having the resources to wage attacks.

The Chinese government and American fascist government both displayed a willingness to suffer nuclear attack if it meant victory.

In short:

"Yes, you're absolutely right it was an idiotic move to attack the East Coast. However, so was nuking America."



No fictional military commander can be as stupid as some of the ones in RL. :)
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:yuck:
Please... kill me... stop... you're worse then Dragonborn. I'm arguing not that attacking the East Coast was stupid BUT that it was IMPOSSIBLE. The logistics for that are insanely complicated and that you have yet to prove that a massive fleet would be able to travel from China to Washington, ignoring the fact that they're running out of supplies. Bethesda was retarded and actually expected that kind of invasion could work when it couldn't. It's impossible... unless you can prove otherwise without using destroyed submarines from Bethesda's games?

CT Phipps said:
At the risk of pointing it out, I believe China must have enough resources to be a comparable state if not as many since it is capable of fighting America to a standstill.

And all other nations have collapsed.
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They fought each other to a standstill because they both ran out and both were lacking in resources, except the Chinese more so...
 
SarcasticGoodGuy said:
Someone basing their theory on Bethesda's lore.
Nothing surprising like this on places like Sugarbombed, but NMA? He's really dedicated with whatever he's doing (still don't know if he's a troll)
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I'm saying why such an invasion works with the way the world has continued to develop. Even so, we have roots of this in the original Fallout games with the Poiseidon Oil Rig, the still-functioning nuclear plant run by ghouls, and the fact the G.E.C.K isn't like it's described in Bethesda but works as a kind of insane nuclear growing machine.

And yes, Power Armor is still functional nuclear devices in infantry suits and we have a nuclear powered car.

Please... kill me... stop... you're worse then Dragonborn. I'm arguing not that attacking the East Coast was stupid BUT that it was IMPOSSIBLE. The logistics for that are insanely complicated and that you have yet to prove that a massive fleet would be able to travel from China to Washington, ignoring the fact that they're running out. Bethesda was retarded and actually expected that kind of invasion could work when it couldn't. It's impossible... unless you can prove otherwise without using destroyed submarines from Bethesda's games?
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I think so far we've only seen a direct invasion of Washington D.C. as having evidence which is far more easier to manage.

The rest was simply bombing the place as we see in the Commonwealth.

Notably with ICBMS, not bombers.
 
CT Phipps said:
America can afford to install them in their cars and a large section of their infantry suits. We're dealing with a strange strange world. Codsworth runs for 200 years without battery recharging. We're dealing with technology which renders the whole concept of "running out of power" redundant.

I think this underlines how pointless and wasteful the war was rather than contradicts it.
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Falllout4 and 3 are dog shit. NV stayed true to lore as no car goes boom.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Highwayman

Highwayman


space
7
inventory
yes



Nothing can stop a Highwayman.

”— Highwayman's slogan
Highwayman was a car model manufactured by Chryslus Motors in the pre-War United States.

Contents

Background
An American icon, the Chryslus Motors Highwayman was once renowned for its high performance and durability. "Nothing can stop a Highwayman" was a phrase familiar to most drivers. The motto still holds true today.

The Highwayman appears to be one of the few cars produced after fossil fuels began to run low in the mid-twenty first century, relying instead on microfusion cells or small energy cells.

Towns in the post-apocalyptic world don't allow motor vehicles on their streets, citing something about aged fuel cells exploding. The Highwayman has to be parked on the outskirts of town.

Overview
The Highwayman uses an electric motor that can be charged with either microfusion cells or small energy cells. It has a sizable trunk, a fuel cell controller and spacious interior able to accommodate at least seven people, even the tallest of people (including at least one super mutant, robobrain and deathclaw in the same group).
 
CT Phipps said:
Micro-fusion says to me they're nuclear.

Also, they kind of explode.
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Firstly, they don't explode that was just rumours. There's no clear evidence, just the fearful mutterings of people.
Vaccines create autism! No vaccines in town! See?

But that's only if you use micro cells. Energy cells aren't nuclear yet they also power the car.
 
CT Phipps said:
Micro-fusion says to me they're nuclear.

Also, they kind of explode.
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803096-emil_pagliarulo.jpg

"Micro-fusion says to me they're nuclear. Also, they kind of explode." ~Emil Pagliarulo 2008 - Present
 
Dr Fallout said:
Firstly, they don't explode that was just rumours. There's no clear evidence, just the fearful mutterings of people.
Vaccines create autism! No vaccines in town! See?

But that's only if you use micro cells. Energy cells aren't nuclear yet they also power the car.
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Point taken they don't have a nuclear reactor within them.

a721402 said:
It's a electric car in case you don't understand.
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An electric car powered by nuclear cells.
 
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