Russia vs. Georgia

[GreyViper]

2) Estonia is a NATO member. That means other NATO members have no choice if Estonia is attacked, they have to assist the country in its defense. This pact of NATO may not have been tested much, but it has also never been broken.

I think the excuse was that NATO is a old relic of a past that cant do jack when things get hot or something similar.

3) Maybe if you start treating your Russian citizens decently Russia won't feel inclined to bug you.

Now who's the victim of propaganda? Look Brother None I honestly ask you visit our country once and form your opinion then

4) Seriously, you think you're important enough to Russia to bother with in the face of international pressure? Jees luis guys, get with it.

Hehe Id like to think so, but realist in me says more like itch you cant scratch.

Hello, has the Georgian government fallen? I don't see it. Has Russia invaded Georgian lands outside the independent provinces? No. Has Russia even pressured the Georgian government for anything other than peace so far? No.

Jumping to conclusions a bit, maybe?

Yeah I am, its just the outcome I suspect will happen in long run. I do hope I am wrong and it ends earlier and with less casualties.

 

[Brother None]

I think the excuse was that NATO is a old relic of a past that cant do jack when things get hot or something similar.

And that is incorrect.

Now who's the victim of propaganda? Look Brother None I honestly ask you visit our country once and form your opinion then

Propaganda? I didn't know Amnesty International or the UN think-thank Development and Transition went for propaganda.

How would visiting a country make me more qualified to judge than those organisations, I wonder?

 

[DJ Slamák]

Hello, has the Georgian government fallen? I don't see it. Has Russia invaded Georgian lands outside the independent provinces? No.

Looks like it has now:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/world/europe/11georgia.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

It seems the Russian army is advancing beyond South Ossetia into central Georgian territory at Gori, and has done some light bombing on an airport in Tbilisi. That is if you believe Georgian authorities, who appear to be the source here. Not that I have a particular reason to doubt them.

 

[Brother None]

It seems the Russian army is advancing beyond South Ossetia into central Georgian territory at Gori, and has done some light bombing on an airport in Tbilisi. That is if you believe Georgian authorities, who appear to be the source here. Not that I have a particular reason to doubt them.

You should seriously doubt what Georgian authorities say.

That said, sucks if it's true. Russia's overstepping its bounds.

 

[DJ Slamák]

You should seriously doubt what Georgian authorities say.

Because they're party to the conflict (applies generally to every belligerent ever, so it's not what I meant by "particular"), or is there another reason?

 

[liberty rogue]

Jeesh, you know I love you Russians and all, but the way you swallow nationalist propaganda hook, line and sinker is a bit creepy.

Eh, what? There is actually propaganda about that? I must consume it immediately, be right back.




Now, seriously, genocide is a wrong term.

Ossetians will never stick with the Georgians. There was a lot of bad blood between them, and the whole thing obviously got even uglier now. Ossetians are unknown in the West, except, maybe, as an AK-waving, gypsy-looking typical trash nation no one gives a fuck about. You shoot them in Tom Clancy's computer games.

The city of Tshinvali is the only symbol of national unity they had. With it destroyed and a signifficant part of their population gone even with Georgians beaten, there will be no Ossetia. They will never gain recognition as a sovereign nation, there will be nothing Ossetian in the world.

At best, they could be like Estonia is now. But welp,

And I think you are overreacting about the whole "Russian Nationalist" thing. I don't think Russian Nationalists really care or even like Ossetians.

 

[Den Baster]

About that has occured and is an indisputable fact.
Figures the facts in current time(10.08.08).
~2000 Ossetia ppls 90 % Russian citizens killed.
~55 Georgia ppls 40 militarians, 15 peace are killed, from them.
~30 Russian military peacekeepers


the Facts of Chronology
Georgia has begun rocket attack of Tskhinvali. In which at once was lost about 1000 innocent (not military) peoples. It is similar on act of counter terrorism against separatists??? OMG
Later. South Ossetia has asked some help.
Russia used the weapons for elimination of installations GRAD which striked blows across Tskhinvali.
Russia has suggested to stop bloodshed. But Georgia 2 days killed peace inhabitants.... Who will tell that is not the Genocide?

BIG propaganda on USA tv like CNN, FOX NEWS or from BBC UK. Good work and good example for Information WAR.

some video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xwty35ozJk
and Speech Ru president
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSjDHr-TXhY

 

[Brother None]

Because they're party to the conflict (applies generally to every belligerent ever, so it's not what I meant by "particular"), or is there another reason?

Because they're the aggressor with a dubious political agenda in a country with a tradition of political maffia-men.

Now, seriously, genocide is a wrong term.

No it isn't. Most people just don't know what genocide actually means.

The UN Convention definiten: any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Many scholars also include simply moving a population as genocide.

The city of Tshinvali is the only symbol of national unity they had. With it destroyed and a signifficant part of their population gone even with Georgians beaten, there will be no Ossetia. They will never gain recognition as a sovereign nation, there will be nothing Ossetian in the world.

Huh? Ossetia as a sovereign nation was never a realistic prospect. It doesn't have the population or economy to run as a sovereign nation.

Its prospects were never anything else than integrating with North-Ossetia.

About that has occured and is an indisputable fact.
Figures the facts in current time(10.08.08).
~2000 Ossetia ppls 90 % Russian citizens killed.
~55 Georgia ppls 40 militarians, 15 peace are killed, from them.
~30 Russian military peacekeepers

Indisputable fact?

So source it.

 

[liberty rogue]

No it isn't. Most people just don't know what genocide actually means.

The UN Convention definiten: any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Many scholars also include simply moving a population as genocide.

I fail to see how you find this definition useful. Apparently, the term "genocide" doesn't mean anything in the context of war.

 

[Brother None]

That's UN definitions for you.

However, if you read over the lines, all it says is "genocide is an action specifically determined to kill (a part of) a identifiable group of people", and that's a solid definition.

 

[Den Baster]

About that has occured and is an indisputable fact.
Figures the facts in current time(10.08.08).
~2000 Ossetia ppls 90 % Russian citizens killed.
~55 Georgia ppls 40 militarians, 15 peace are killed, from them.
~30 Russian military peacekeepers

Indisputable fact?

So source it.

I think so... This words from our Information sources, and this figures more times repeat Vitaliy Churkin, Grigory Karasin russians ambassadors even to CNN, FOX, BBC.

War never changes....

sorry for my shit english)

 

[Brother None]

I think so... This words from our Information sources, and this figures more times repeat Vitaliy Churkin, Grigory Karasin russians ambassadors even to CNN, FOX, BBC.

Wait, these are Russian numbers and you call them "indisputable"?

Get real. Russia is lying, just like Georgia. It's what you do, in war.

 

[Wooz]

Good fucking Lord.

It wouldn't be Eastern Europe without a zionist conspiracy theory, ya know.

And Estonian dudes, chill out. Russia isn't going to risk anything with NATO and 'the west' for you guys. They're already up to their necks with pretty much every Western news agency shouting 'wolf'.

 

[Den Baster]

I think so... This words from our Information sources, and this figures more times repeat Vitaliy Churkin, Grigory Karasin russians ambassadors even to CNN, FOX, BBC.

Wait, these are Russian numbers and you call them "indisputable"?

Get real. Russia is lying, just like Georgia. It's what you do, in war.

Ok will see in future Who Big Lier

Dead bodys cant lie.... will see

 

[Scare]

Wow, we might as well not have opinions, or at least not on this board. Good ole' Brother None will do our thinking for us.

 

[Brother None]

And Estonian dudes, chill out. Russia isn't going to risk anything with NATO and 'the west' for you guys. They're already up to their necks with pretty much every Western news agency shouting 'wolf'.

Too true.

Though the "why" mystifies me somewhat. Georgia attacks Ossetia, gets attacked back and...is sympathized with?

Still no independent corroboration on the Russian invasion of Georgia, huh?
Local residents fleeing the area on Sunday morning told the BBC that Tskhinvali was relatively quiet.

Later, however, the BBC's Richard Galpin described a sense of panic on Sunday night in the Georgian town of Gori, near South Ossetia, amid fears that Russian troops were about to march on the town.

Yip, a sense of a panic. Total proof.

Sometimes Western media can suck so much.

Still, this made me laugh:
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told the BBC his forces had observed a ceasefire since 0500 on Sunday morning, but had still been bombed by Russian planes. He said his government had been trying "all day" to contact Russia to discuss a ceasefire.

Hey, asshole, you started this war by breaking a truce, and now that you're beaten you cry "ceasefire" and actually expect anyone to take it seriously?

Where do they find these assholes?

Ok will see in future Who Big Lier

Dead bodys cant lie.... will see

Too true.

 

[Den Baster]

Still, this made me laugh:
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told the BBC his forces had observed a ceasefire since 0500 on Sunday morning, but had still been bombed by Russian planes. He said his government had been trying "all day" to contact Russia to discuss a ceasefire.

Hey, asshole, you started this war by breaking a truce, and now that you're beaten you cry "ceasefire" and actually expect anyone to take it seriously?

Where do they find these assholes?

Yeah very funny Iam too laugh...

But if Russia wants bombing Georgia, such country like "Georgia" will become a history in two hours.

 

[UniversalWolf]

But if Russia wants bombing Georgia, such country like "Georgia" will become a history in two hours.

I'm looking forward to Stalin's image being erased from Russian history.

 

[Continuum]

But if Russia wants bombing Georgia, such country like "Georgia" will become a history in two hours.

Give Russian pilots more vodka and they'll do that in one hour!

Stalin was the great person in history of Russia. I personally admire him. He was created big Empire and was the clever leader! But little bloody

I'll never understand Russian mentality, really

But hey! This explains a lot: The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic.

This kind of drivel is one of the reasons why many Estonians dislike Russians.

Not only Estonians...

 

[Slaughter Manslaught]

Whoa, I get away for three days and a whole war happens and A FUCKING CITY IS REDUCED INTO ASHES?!

Damn, things are fast those days.

And Russia is going soft. In the old times, Georgia would have more paratroopers than civilians in the Georgian capital right now. And there would be nothing left standing in Georgia. Except Vodka production factories, gotta keep the war machine walking, you know.