Saddam on trial

Thread Title said:
Saddam on trial
He's not on trial yet is he? Isn't it preliminary investigative hearing?
"The next legal step would be that the investigations start proper with investigative judges and investigators beginning the process of gathering evidence," Chalabi said. "Down the line, there will be an indictment, if there is enough evidence — obviously, and a timetable starts with respect to a trial date."
 
Saddam on trial is one of few good things that came from Bush administration (not that the administration doesn't suck ass, quite the contrary).
 
Yes, I agree ratty. It's one of the few things that might be right. However, I think Saddam has a fair chance of getting off, or making the US look like shit in the process.

prosecutor- "So, Saddam... about those people you gassed."

Saddam- "where do you have the evidence for that?"

Prosecutor- "Ahhh.... the US."

Saddam - "Oh yeah... the same people who said WMD?"

Kharn- great link.

And yes, it's only a preliminary hearing. At least the guy got a lawyer.

I say televise this. This will be better than OJ and there's no good TV on anyway.
 
four words : weapons of mass destruction

where the fuck are they?


this whole circus trial pisses me off
 
welsh said:
However, I think Saddam has a fair chance of getting off
Not likely. Quite the contrary, I predict Saddam will get a death sentence, much like Ceausescu did. Whether or not his prosecutors can provide firm evidence of his guilt is of little relevance - the new Iraqi government needs Saddam dead or at least sentenced to a lifetime in prison, for his removal is a very important, perhaps even a crucial step in undoing his legacy and ensuring future stability. As long as he is a factor in Iraqi situation, even a passive one, there will be reactionary nutcases killing in his name. Though security issues in Iraq will be far from resolved once the bastard croaks, his permanent removal will be an important symbolic gesture.
 
Sovz said:
four words : weapons of mass destruction

where the fuck are they?


this whole circus trial pisses me off

Four words: He gassed the Kurds

Ask them for the evidence, they'd be happy to give it to you. (the gassing part)

And it's not a trial yet damnit. How does it piss you off? Did you know Saddam, did he kill your people, did he send money to you, does he call you at home?
 
welsh said:
However, I think Saddam has a fair chance of getting off

Yeah, 'coz it's a neutral trial...

AHAHAHAHA...

It might be a good idea to trial him in the Hague, in the International Court of Justice...Oh wait.

welsh said:
I say televise this. This will be better than OJ and there's no good TV on anyway.

Stop talking about this like American showvision, this is not comparable "to OJ". The fact that you treat famous people being sued as day-time tv doesn't mean you should lower a serious trial like that. "Better than OJ", indeed
 
Not likely. Quite the contrary, I predict Saddam will get a death sentence, much like Ceausescu did.
Ahem!
The shot that bitch and his idiot of a wife real quick... Most likely they had to cover their own asses. And it just happens that the old Romanian Secret Service is thriving today, all they had to do was change the bloody name. This way people that tortured and killed during the communist regime are now "prosperous business men". They fucking own most of the country, not to mention almost all the media.
My point is that Ceausescu did not stand a chance. And I'm not saying that he did not deserve to die, it's just that he was dispatched urgently, too quick if you ask me. This way some things got lost on the way... like his "secret" foreign bank accounts. Now they are nothing more than a myth. And let's just say that such a dictator should be kept alive for some time, as long as it takes to clear things out, if you get my drift.
I hope Saddam gets a fair trial, and let the chips fall where they may. Anyway nothing less than life in prison will do. I personally hope they fry him, but firs an ample public interrogation is in order.
 
It's a shame he's not going to get a fair trial, but that was to be expected, n'est-ce pas? If those yanks don't know the meaning of the word "fairplay" while at war, you can't expect them to know it while in court, eh?

One fine day, though, the President of the United States of America, land of the free and the brave and the corrupt, will be in exactly the same situation, i.e. with his ass in a pile of political shit and melodrama. It's bound to happen sooner or later, what with all the bullshit this wonderfull nation is causing the world nowadays. I'm already looking forward to it. :P

I like Saddam's new haircut, by the way. Sexy! :P
 
Oh bullshit Kharn-

If this a fair trial, which I doubt it will be, I am curious about how the trial will tilt. It's one thing for the US to impose order, but with an insurgency that has a habit of whacking people who work with the US, and given that this trial won't happen for awhile yet, there's a chance, although a thin one, that Saddam will get off.

I doubt it. There are still some serious charges pending.

However, if Saddam can make the argument that he was deposed illegally, than he might be able to say that he's still the sovereign ruler of the state. As sovereign ruler he benefits from the Act of State doctrine- making him immune from most political actions done within his own country.

As for proving that he did the crimes, you will still need to show evidence.

But I agree, the gassing of the Kurds is a big problem for him. Even if his excuse flies- that he didn't know about it until after the fact, then he is still responsible as military ruler.

That said, this trial will raise a lot of interesting questions- the legality of initiating war, the right of a soverign to stand above or below the power of his own people, the power of the sovereign to be immune from prosecution.

For many years the rule of law, be it national or international, was positivist law- meaning sovereigns are immune and war is a legitimate act of state craft. Only since around 1945 have those ideas been tested.

So yeah it will be an interesting trial. And considering the money being spent by Saddam on his defense (he is one of Fortune's 400 wealthiest people) than he can have a legal "dream-team" that beats what OJ could ever have fielded.

THen there is the same problem that the OJ prosecution had- it's own hands were dirty and the evidence was tainted. One could make the same argument that the Bush administration faces, as well as the question for the Iraqis as to whether, in the eyes of their people, they are legitimate administrators and a government, or merely the lackies of the US.

Then- you have the issue of impact. OJ wins in part because he gets a lot of sympathy from many people. There were blacks in the US who still think "OJ was set up" and "OJ didn't do it" even if OJ is one of the whitest black men that ever lived. Furthermore, the members of the jury went into the trial with the predetermined motive to vote OJ innocent.

Do you think that there are not a lot of Arabs in the middle east today, and especially in Iraq, who don't think Saddam was set up? Hell there are a lot of people there who blame everything on the US (remarkable power for a country that often can't get the mail to the right place). If you have similar sentiments that this is all a show for the US, and the middle east has been feeling like it's on the shit end of the world's heirarchy for ever. And they blame the US.

Last, OJ was a showman. So is Saddam. This will be interesting. And regardless of Saddam's reputation for being ruthless, he's also pretty savy- but his argument in court last week.

So yes, this will be better than OJ.

And bullshit if you think that this is not a case of showbusiness. You televise a trial and it will be a show. Iraqis were watching the TV and every trial is a drama unfolding.
 
Paladin Solo said:
Sovz said:
four words : weapons of mass destruction

where the fuck are they?


this whole circus trial pisses me off

Four words: He gassed the Kurds

Ask them for the evidence, they'd be happy to give it to you. (the gassing part)

And it's not a trial yet damnit. How does it piss you off? Did you know Saddam, did he kill your people, did he send money to you, does he call you at home?


Ok, lest try to analyze this… he harassed the Kurds, plenty of evidence, meaning he deserves to get invaded, got 100,000 of his people killed, striped of his oil reserves, and put on trial. Gee that’s makes perfect sense.

Now lets examine this again, turkey is harassing the Kurds as well, but wait, you don’t see them getting invaded. I wonder why, maybe because they are strategic allies of the US since the cold war, Turkey is located on a strategic position, enabling the new oil pipeline reaching Europe.

Based on your logic, every country deserves to be invaded when it’s harassing the Kurds or some other poor defenseless people (see example Yugoslavia)
 
I hope they don't try weaseling the "you invaded Kuwait approach". I would have done the same if a neighbor started diagonally drilling into my oil reserves, even if he did it from his own country. The Kurds gassing does piss me off, they have beautiful women.
 
Fairplay? Psssffftt...by fairplay do you mean Rules of Engagment, or bombing the hell out of the enemy, then shoving cruise missiles up their asses, then bombing the hell out of them some more, then launching a few more cruise missiles, and then some more bombing, and a few more cruise missiles before finally marching in?

(see example Yugoslavia)

(see example World War 1)
 
Paladin Solo said:
Fairplay? Psssffftt...by fairplay do you mean Rules of Engagment, or bombing the hell out of the enemy, then shoving cruise missiles up their asses, then bombing the hell out of them some more, then launching a few more cruise missiles, and then some more bombing, and a few more cruise missiles before finally marching in?

(see example Yugoslavia)

(see example World War 1)

Then what’s the difference between Sadam Bush or Clinton?
Why one is in jail and the other two are free to fuck secretaries and kiss the Saudi asses?
 
Paladin Solo, does one "d" really count, as long as the point gets across? :roll:
And the difference IMO is that the Americans have the bigger stick, hence they are always right :P
And if you are going to be picky about it think of it this way: Saddam killed civilians with intent, while the others will argue that all the civilians killed in the bombings were "collateral damage". It's not like they were aiming for them .... :roll:
 
Sovz said:
Paladin Solo said:
Who's Sadam?
fine, he has two D's in his name, big deal.
His real name would be in Arabic (I would assume), so it would have no "d"s in it at all. Either way, that's a very poor way to debate PS.
 
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