Scientology?
- Thread starter xdarkyrex
- Start date
Paladin Solo
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
"Me no understand anything, so me call you dense, take that Zerg menace!" Why don't you read what I fucking posted above, you know, the post with the many words. I know it hurts you to read so much at one time, but give it a try for goodness sake, it may help you evolve to be a better Scientologist. 'Selective ability to read' indeed.
So wait, you call me dense yet you're too silly to realise you're a lazy bastard? I don't go around posting "I can answer some questions" then say "do some research." Cop-out much?
And then when told 'what' you respond 'nah, not for me.' Well I'm glad we could help you out. Thanks, come back again.
SCIANCE! It's why we never win!
Of course, I have common sense, reason, and am not as gullible and clueless as Yoshi. I also have the basic ability to realise when I'm full of shit and when someone calls me out for it. But hey, go you.
Mord_Sith
Mildly Dipped
(This is gonna take a while...)
The point I was making, that in the past, religion was used as a tool to present knowledge of phenomena that was otherwise unexplainable to the unwashed masses in a form that would not frighten them.
Without knowledge of gravity and orbits, one would believe that the giant ball of flame known as the sun would fall on our heads if some god didn't hold it up there by decree for example.
The large portion of the world that is still religious is in decline since the mid-80's, less and less young'uns are going to church and actually wanting to go there for whatever reason.
Science is slowly explaining the mechanics of the universe, they're a hell of a long way off, but it's better than saying some flaming chariot is flying through the sky daily piloted by a god.
I didn't say anything less would happen, except perhaps speed up the rehabilitation process without the draconian methods like electroshock therapy or heavy mind-altering drugs that damage more than they fix.
They're still going to medicate the psycho-crooks, the ones that are clinically insane, but a gene therapy treatment (ideally) would be a far better option than the rubber room and 10000 volts through the brain for 10 years to -try- and rehabilitate them.
Granted he's probably got the biggest ego on the planet, but he IS the spokesperson, the face, chosen by CoS to represent the CoS, for good or for ill, he is what people see when they think of the CoS.
You can't use him as a figurehead when he's drawing people in, then deny he ever existed as such when he starts acting like a whackjob.
I don't assume that all Scientologists are crazy, but I do think that they are either being led astray by a dead con-man or simply just finding something to fill the void that the other religions have left behind because they've been disenchanted.
Perhaps it is my dislike for it, however as you said earlier, they've been through one hell of a PR wring washer, however, if they have this myriad of charities that they fund at their disposal, after taking all this flak, you'd think they'd try to show the humanitarian side of the CoS more in order to try and diffuse tensions?
Unless they either don't exist, or are self-serving, hell even Rotten Ronnies uses their own charities as PR to make them look better while fattening up north america like a bunch of cattle.
True it's about faith in general but note that last one, they're a series of comments about religion in general and I may believe that it was all made up by whackjobs but at the same time, some people need those kinds of supports to explain the world they live in, I admit that.
Ok sorry for making you repeat yourself, however a religion based on dianetics that lead to the discovery of this Xenu character, and created the religious version of 'We sleep, they live' with parasitic spirits inhabiting our corporeal being you have to admit, it certainly calls into question the sanity of the person who came up with it if they believed this tripe.
I only say that because it is the root word, it has nothing to do with faith, and from the fact that they do use copyright to quash independent thought on a regular basis.
Don't you think that the Roman Catholic church would have loved to be able to pull that card during the Protestant revolution?
A belief is based on personal choice, if that is taken away from people than the religion is a sham, if you don't have a choice, and are forced to dance to the CoS tune due to fear of copyright litigation then there's something damn wrong with that picture.
As for Scientific truth, it's tangible truth to me, it's something that can be proven, or theorized through mathematical truth, through observation, and through experimentation.
How the blue bloody hell do you know these 'thetans' exist, seriously, just 'cause a book on Dianetics made you feel better or some crazy tonal color or whatever device you use to measure your lack of inhabiting spirit can easily be duplicated by the Rastafarians for example, or the elation of those who devoutly believe in Christianity when praying at around 10:00 AM in an eastward facing chapel!
Mental chemical or external stimuli can easily replicate the Dianetics tomfoolery without all this religious mumbo jumbo, all it takes is *gasp* a Psychiatric Researcher to reverse engineer the sensations.
But can they be part of the main CoS by doing so, can they be part of the clergy without paying a penny, as for 'protection' why did alt.scientology.net get shut down with a copyright litigation when all it was about was discussion of Scientology.
I don't buy the 'protection' spiel, there's no reason to quash discussion groups about the subject unless they're trying to hide something.
Yoshi525 said:
The point I was making, that in the past, religion was used as a tool to present knowledge of phenomena that was otherwise unexplainable to the unwashed masses in a form that would not frighten them.
Without knowledge of gravity and orbits, one would believe that the giant ball of flame known as the sun would fall on our heads if some god didn't hold it up there by decree for example.
The large portion of the world that is still religious is in decline since the mid-80's, less and less young'uns are going to church and actually wanting to go there for whatever reason.
Science is slowly explaining the mechanics of the universe, they're a hell of a long way off, but it's better than saying some flaming chariot is flying through the sky daily piloted by a god.
I didn't say anything less would happen, except perhaps speed up the rehabilitation process without the draconian methods like electroshock therapy or heavy mind-altering drugs that damage more than they fix.
They're still going to medicate the psycho-crooks, the ones that are clinically insane, but a gene therapy treatment (ideally) would be a far better option than the rubber room and 10000 volts through the brain for 10 years to -try- and rehabilitate them.
Granted he's probably got the biggest ego on the planet, but he IS the spokesperson, the face, chosen by CoS to represent the CoS, for good or for ill, he is what people see when they think of the CoS.
You can't use him as a figurehead when he's drawing people in, then deny he ever existed as such when he starts acting like a whackjob.
I don't assume that all Scientologists are crazy, but I do think that they are either being led astray by a dead con-man or simply just finding something to fill the void that the other religions have left behind because they've been disenchanted.
Perhaps it is my dislike for it, however as you said earlier, they've been through one hell of a PR wring washer, however, if they have this myriad of charities that they fund at their disposal, after taking all this flak, you'd think they'd try to show the humanitarian side of the CoS more in order to try and diffuse tensions?
Unless they either don't exist, or are self-serving, hell even Rotten Ronnies uses their own charities as PR to make them look better while fattening up north america like a bunch of cattle.
True it's about faith in general but note that last one, they're a series of comments about religion in general and I may believe that it was all made up by whackjobs but at the same time, some people need those kinds of supports to explain the world they live in, I admit that.
Ok sorry for making you repeat yourself, however a religion based on dianetics that lead to the discovery of this Xenu character, and created the religious version of 'We sleep, they live' with parasitic spirits inhabiting our corporeal being you have to admit, it certainly calls into question the sanity of the person who came up with it if they believed this tripe.
I only say that because it is the root word, it has nothing to do with faith, and from the fact that they do use copyright to quash independent thought on a regular basis.
Don't you think that the Roman Catholic church would have loved to be able to pull that card during the Protestant revolution?
A belief is based on personal choice, if that is taken away from people than the religion is a sham, if you don't have a choice, and are forced to dance to the CoS tune due to fear of copyright litigation then there's something damn wrong with that picture.
As for Scientific truth, it's tangible truth to me, it's something that can be proven, or theorized through mathematical truth, through observation, and through experimentation.
How the blue bloody hell do you know these 'thetans' exist, seriously, just 'cause a book on Dianetics made you feel better or some crazy tonal color or whatever device you use to measure your lack of inhabiting spirit can easily be duplicated by the Rastafarians for example, or the elation of those who devoutly believe in Christianity when praying at around 10:00 AM in an eastward facing chapel!
Mental chemical or external stimuli can easily replicate the Dianetics tomfoolery without all this religious mumbo jumbo, all it takes is *gasp* a Psychiatric Researcher to reverse engineer the sensations.
But can they be part of the main CoS by doing so, can they be part of the clergy without paying a penny, as for 'protection' why did alt.scientology.net get shut down with a copyright litigation when all it was about was discussion of Scientology.
I don't buy the 'protection' spiel, there's no reason to quash discussion groups about the subject unless they're trying to hide something.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
Can't we just put all the scientologists in an isolated place just like the 2nd Foundation in Asimov's book (oh yeah, and sterilized)? ... no, I guess it's a bit radical.
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No they don't. Many people from a whole range of cultures use drugs but a much smaller percentage are addicted to them. In a similar way many people are religious but you get a few numpties who take things to far. EXTREMEISTS.
It is well publicized.
As i have said it is perfectly possible to be an active Scientologist and not pay a penny.
Missed a turning there?
Accept on a global scale that simply is not true, just on a western-Christian scale.
Correct. Scientology does not attempt to explain how the universe/humanity/God works but why.
Yes i can, for the simple reason he is not my figurehead. The church is a huge and diverse body, Churches over here and (at least on the level i am present at) very little to do with those in the U.S. hence to be perfectly honest i could't careless what mister Cruise does. I know he may be setting a bad example for my religion, what do i care? At the end of the day i have no interest in recruiting members. All faiths have their fools, (as do governments, science bodies and almost all organisations) these fools are often important fools.
Crazy? Perhaps. Any more crazy than a long list of old testament stories. Any more crazy than string theory or schrodinger's cat? Any more crazy than life in general? The understanding behind thetans is extremely complex.
There are lots of things wrong with the world, the inability for conmen to start spinoffs of a genuine faith doesn't IMO rank very highly amongst them.
As i have said, you can choose to oversimplified the ritualistic methods behind scientology if you like, but the largest part of any of these things is the subjective effect it has on a person.
You are immediately assuming the Church is in the wrong and, as you put it 'hiding something' rather than the spin-off group. At the end of the day i am not going to pretend i know the ins and outs of the American legal system, because i don't. Nor do i know what was said on scientology.net. Neither do you, or anyone else here.
Mord_Sith
Mildly Dipped
(One more time, round the bend, here we go again and again!)
Firstly I assume you mean Except rather than Accept.
Secondly, perhaps, I've seen some very devout people as far as North American religions go (Bloody hell I felt out of place at a catholic funeral, so much pomp and stomp no wonder they feel like they're sinners all the time!) However at the same time religion's more ingrained in the other parts of the world, what with it culturally dating back at least a millennium longer than anything in the Americas?
Maybe we're ahead of our time, maybe the fact that we were populated from the scum and impoverished of Brittan has a hand with our disenchantment, either way religion has been falling to the wayside for some time now hereabouts.
Then why does Scientology feel the need to explain the existence of other religions as falsifications imprinted upon them by thetans? Or why they feel the need to explain the existence of thetans themselves, rather than just say they exist and be done with it.
It's like painting the cougar with dots rather than spots, they call it differently, but essentially it's the same thing, Scientology tries to explain things in the universe that Science and general learning hasn't yet disproved. So does Christianity, Buddhism, ad infinitum.
True enough, everyone has fools, but he -IS- the spokesperson for the CoS (not to mention... oh what the hell was that medal he was presented with from the CoS, medallion of freedom or some such rubbish?) he may not be -YOUR- spokesperson, but the establishment that you're arguing on behalf of has selected him as -THEIR- spokesperson.
Usually religions do one of two things to their higher up fools, cover them up, or make them disappear.
I use string theory to mess with people's heads who don't know any better, don't knock it
As for the old testament, yeah it's crazy, it was also used to drive peasantry into fear and belief of said god in order to make them believe that if they didn't show up they'd be damned for eternity or more.
Once again it was a control function to deal with the human condition of the time, and still is to this day.
If someone is dumb enough to fall for a numpty church (once again, Jesus with glasses FTW!) then so be it, I have a problem with those, but you don't see them getting shut down by litigation suits from the Roman Catholic church, who once again, would love to play that card against the Protestants to force everyone to go to the Roman Catholic faith again and have their coffers burgeon again.
Or maybe you're over-complicating these rituals to make it seem like they have more weight than they should, as I said, with proper research, odds are you could duplicate the phenomena quite easily, usually it goes by the name Awe.
(My mistake it was alt.religion.scientology, not alt.scientology.net)
I am immediately assuming that the CoS has used Legal action against a newsgroup / discussion form to stop the movement of free speech, not a spinoff group, it was simply a discussion newsgroup that was shut down.
That's one example, try looking up some of the other things the CoS has shut down in the name of copyright law:
A wiki makes the word go 'round:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_versus_the_Internet
What right does Scientology have to silence free speech and abuse copyright law in their favor on a matter of FAITH.
If you truly believe in the hubbard fellow's teachings in dianetics, why in the nine would people be chastised for talking about it, hell the bible has discussions all the time, churches ORGANIZE the bloody things.
One very blatant answer comes to mind, they don't want people finding out about how hair-brained this lot is until they got them on enough mind control antics and or religious psychobabble to not bat an eye as to the very VERY strange part of the religion that is OTIII.
By the way, I would really like it if you would stop answering questions with conjecture, vague answers, and ignoring questions as you see fit. I'm trying to have a legitimate discussion here, and doing the courtesy of answering every counter-point you present. If you don't start bringing up hard facts to back your claims (one big one would be the charities) I'm going to have to start thinking you're just regurgitating the spiel you're fed at CoS Xenu Boot camp.
Firstly I assume you mean Except rather than Accept.
Secondly, perhaps, I've seen some very devout people as far as North American religions go (Bloody hell I felt out of place at a catholic funeral, so much pomp and stomp no wonder they feel like they're sinners all the time!) However at the same time religion's more ingrained in the other parts of the world, what with it culturally dating back at least a millennium longer than anything in the Americas?
Maybe we're ahead of our time, maybe the fact that we were populated from the scum and impoverished of Brittan has a hand with our disenchantment, either way religion has been falling to the wayside for some time now hereabouts.
Then why does Scientology feel the need to explain the existence of other religions as falsifications imprinted upon them by thetans? Or why they feel the need to explain the existence of thetans themselves, rather than just say they exist and be done with it.
It's like painting the cougar with dots rather than spots, they call it differently, but essentially it's the same thing, Scientology tries to explain things in the universe that Science and general learning hasn't yet disproved. So does Christianity, Buddhism, ad infinitum.
True enough, everyone has fools, but he -IS- the spokesperson for the CoS (not to mention... oh what the hell was that medal he was presented with from the CoS, medallion of freedom or some such rubbish?) he may not be -YOUR- spokesperson, but the establishment that you're arguing on behalf of has selected him as -THEIR- spokesperson.
Usually religions do one of two things to their higher up fools, cover them up, or make them disappear.
I use string theory to mess with people's heads who don't know any better, don't knock it
As for the old testament, yeah it's crazy, it was also used to drive peasantry into fear and belief of said god in order to make them believe that if they didn't show up they'd be damned for eternity or more.
Once again it was a control function to deal with the human condition of the time, and still is to this day.
If someone is dumb enough to fall for a numpty church (once again, Jesus with glasses FTW!) then so be it, I have a problem with those, but you don't see them getting shut down by litigation suits from the Roman Catholic church, who once again, would love to play that card against the Protestants to force everyone to go to the Roman Catholic faith again and have their coffers burgeon again.
Or maybe you're over-complicating these rituals to make it seem like they have more weight than they should, as I said, with proper research, odds are you could duplicate the phenomena quite easily, usually it goes by the name Awe.
(My mistake it was alt.religion.scientology, not alt.scientology.net)
I am immediately assuming that the CoS has used Legal action against a newsgroup / discussion form to stop the movement of free speech, not a spinoff group, it was simply a discussion newsgroup that was shut down.
That's one example, try looking up some of the other things the CoS has shut down in the name of copyright law:
A wiki makes the word go 'round:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_versus_the_Internet
What right does Scientology have to silence free speech and abuse copyright law in their favor on a matter of FAITH.
If you truly believe in the hubbard fellow's teachings in dianetics, why in the nine would people be chastised for talking about it, hell the bible has discussions all the time, churches ORGANIZE the bloody things.
One very blatant answer comes to mind, they don't want people finding out about how hair-brained this lot is until they got them on enough mind control antics and or religious psychobabble to not bat an eye as to the very VERY strange part of the religion that is OTIII.
By the way, I would really like it if you would stop answering questions with conjecture, vague answers, and ignoring questions as you see fit. I'm trying to have a legitimate discussion here, and doing the courtesy of answering every counter-point you present. If you don't start bringing up hard facts to back your claims (one big one would be the charities) I'm going to have to start thinking you're just regurgitating the spiel you're fed at CoS Xenu Boot camp.
McRae said:Can't we just put all the scientologists in an isolated place just like the 2nd Foundation in Asimov's book (oh yeah, and sterilized)? ... no, I guess it's a bit radical.
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NO. The Second Foundation was helping the First to create the Second Galactic Empire. Scientologists wouldn't do that.
They'd just go around conning aliens for their cash.
Mord_Sith
Mildly Dipped
Youth for Human Rights and foundation for a drug-free world have nothing on them to suggest they're Scientology affiliates, please don't just throw things out all willy nilly.
As for the Volunteer Ministers at the twin towers, the fact is that ANYONE getting in the way of the police and/or firefighters would be pushed aside rather than lauded.
That comment is due to the fact that you see it all the time, and I have family on the local force, they don't tolerate civvies getting in the way in emergency situations because they don't know how to protect themselves from hazards of an emergency situation.
This one is self serving, it promotes the Scientology bill of anti-psychiatrists and ignorance of mental wellness through proven science and instead focusing on mystical machines.
As for the Volunteer Ministers at the twin towers, the fact is that ANYONE getting in the way of the police and/or firefighters would be pushed aside rather than lauded.
That comment is due to the fact that you see it all the time, and I have family on the local force, they don't tolerate civvies getting in the way in emergency situations because they don't know how to protect themselves from hazards of an emergency situation.
CCHR said:
This one is self serving, it promotes the Scientology bill of anti-psychiatrists and ignorance of mental wellness through proven science and instead focusing on mystical machines.
Paladin Solo
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Anyways, I should start a new religion because apparently there's a market for it. But thankfully, ARVARI mind-tricks are useless on me, only money.
D
Deleted member 53669
Guest
I know gays are out in Scientology, mostly, but what about cross-dressers? I was thinking about attending an auditing session but I can't figure what shade of brown lipstick I should wear....
Mord_Sith
Mildly Dipped
Well this has certainly dive-bombed, and here I thought we were having a (mostly) rational discussion here about if Scientology actually fills the population control manifest in Society that all official religions are designed to do.
At least rational for the intertubes...
At least rational for the intertubes...