Scientology?

I didnt read all 200 posts written in this thread until now, but still i have to make a general statement about scientology.

Afaik they are very small in numbers, especially compared to any other religions and how popular and rich they are.

Those Anon and similar people who care so much about them, just simply care too much. Probably they got nothing better to do than being annoyed by the naivity an stupidity of the scientology members. However, in my opinion they have the right to believe in each bullshit they want as long as they don't restrict anyone's freedom, threat anyone or similar.

And also I think the more people somehow put Scientology into any media, the more popular they get and followingly the more people might actually join them after reading their bullshit book of books (written by a Science Fiction author) which they believe to contain the truth. They are like those green little gnomes only I can seen who sometimes stalk me everywhere I go: just ignore them and they will just vanish and be forgotten.

ps: i might take some of the things back, I've written. I'm pretty tired and might have written a lot of bull.
 
Kukident said:
They are like those green little gnomes only I can seen who sometimes stalk me everywhere I go: just ignore them and they will just vanish and be forgotten.
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If it only was that simple. Sometimes cults (as I don't really consider scientology a religion, more a cult or philosophy of life) rise to power if left unchecked.

Besides, people have the right to believe in anything they wish until they don't threaten other people, but others (including me) have the right to call their believes bullshit and make fun of it. Sure, I'll be an asshole then, but I don't care.
 
My largest problems with Scientology are that it quashes basic freedoms of it's followers for it's own gains and it does not fill the Social mandate that standard religions do of controlling the population's emotions and placating unrest through superstition.
 
Mord_Sith said:
My largest problems with Scientology are that it quashes basic freedoms of it's followers for it's own gains and it does not fill the Social mandate that standard religions do of controlling the population's emotions and placating unrest through superstition.
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Certain that is simply because it does not have to? I mean, with todays level of law enforcment and government controll it does not need to. I bet that if the apocalypse comes and they barely survive in one of their Scientology-tech vaults the ideology would change to something more authoritan. Just as the other religions have changed to something less authoritarian these days. Just look at the chatolic church, it does not run inqusitions does it?

Scientology have not have to deal with those kind of circumstances that all the main religions faced during the dark ages and before that, so they have not needed to do so.
 
You don't seem to understand, Religion exists for a purpose, do you think that governments would allow their existence as an influential entity if it didn't have a purpose in the social mandate for control?

Religion exists to explain the unexplainable to the common man, it also exists to control the common man through superstition, however Scientology does neither of these, it replaces what we already have explained as truth, claims that things before it are lies as far as religions are concerned, and does not control the population's emotions, instead it quashes free speech through copyright laws, abuses the financial provisions given to religions above and beyond even what the catholic church has pulled off.

It's an attempt to fill the void left behind as Christianity is loosing steam due to it's believability and awe fading with time and opulence, however what it is replacing it with is a shallow attempt at a religion that does nothing but create unrest and damages social harmony, something that Religion's existence is supposed to promote (within that community, it also promotes a hostile view towards other factions of religion as a byproduct).

Scientology is nothing more than a con gone above and beyond Hubbard's wildest expectations, hell they even got a baby Hubbard for crissakes!

They claim that the other religions are farces but they rip them off wholesale and repackage it for the 20th century, but without the consequences that generally instill good behavior within their clergy.

I am sorry but it's a damn sham, and Yoshi running away from the questions presented to him do not help your case any Loxley, if you honestly want to debate this, go over all the points presented to Yoshi and answer them, as I am not in the habit of repeating myself for people who are too lazy to read.

I said it before, I will not be a convert, don't go at this expecting to cull a new scientologist, however I want to see if there's one of you batty lot that can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Scientology classifies as a proper Religion and not just a cult without the Kool-Aid!

Belief and Religion should never be confused, I could believe a toaster is the god of prosperity, there's no way to say I am wrong because that's what I believe, but to function as a Religion requires some very specific social obligations provided to the country harboring said religion before it ascends beyond cult status.
 
You don't seem to understand, Religion exists for a purpose, do you think that governments would allow their existence as an influential entity if it didn't have a purpose in the social mandate for control?
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In short, Yes.


Declaration of human rights.

Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
 
Don't quote US Law as if it's mandate for the world, the states aren't the world despite general opinion.

The US has been hogtied by their own laws before and broken them in order to get out of it as well so I'm not even going to bother with rebuffing this one.
 
Brother None said:
Hell, the US is a country where the UDHR has no force of law over the constitution, it does supersede constitutions in the EU.
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That is quite a remarkable statement you make there from a legal point of view. Perhaps you are referring to the European convention of Human rights, but the universal declaration as such has no binding force upon states as far as I know. It is widely considered to be soft law and used as an interpretative tool for other conventions.

Also in general, countries where international law supersedes the constitution are a rarity and the doctrine as such is even in states where it is accepted rife with controversy. Most states even require a national law to incorporate a treaty into the internal/domestic legal order let alone it being able to supersede the constitution.
 
Fine BN, if you'd like to see me repeat myself for the umpteenth time I shall, but only for you... :P

Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
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http://www.udhr.org/UDHR/ART19.HTM

Article 19
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
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What so far has been my biggest problem with the CoS, their arbitrary denial of the freedom of speech through copyright law, time and again they refuse freedom of speech about the church, dissenting opinions or otherwise.

I posted the wiki-link earlier to some of the attacks that the CoS has done in the name of copyright protection, and as for freedom of religion, I don't believe that CoS is a religion, that's the question I'm posing to the nutters that believe in this tripe to prove that it is a legitimate religion with a purpose aside from personal gain of Hubbard gone haywire.

If you newcomers would actually read what's been said already on the topic, you might have picked up on this, rather than cuing in on a recent post and think that there's an opening to exploit that hasn't already been covered.

I DARE one of you blighters, outright dare you to prove me wrong, prove to me that the CoS isn't the biggest sham of the 20th century above and beyond the Nigeria scam!

For something to exist, it has to have a purpose, tearing down what we know as truth through scientific practice and replacing it with mystical machines and hoodoo is strange at best, then stating that everything before it is a lie while taking wholesale from those very religions that they defame to awe their clergy is hypocritical.

Plus the OTIII insanity is (literally) out of this world, either Hubbard's a head-case, was smoking the world's best fatty, or wielded his years as a story writer to make a plausible, albeit far fetched, story to huckster people.

I don't know about you, but I'm leaning towards number three on this one (Hey, maybe that's what the III in OTIII really means! I could be a prophet! ... Maybe not)

So far my efforts to be civil have lead me nowhere and Yoshi ran off when confronted with questions he didn't want to answer, so it's up to the new batch to sift through what Yoshi left behind and either finish his work, or take a long walk off a short pier, maybe the water will cleanse your mind of impurities brought on by the mystic machines of the CoS.

Happy now BN?

:P :D
 
Ok sorry I have not responded to this, I have been doing some time. During my isolation I have rethunk my life and decided perhaps Scientology is not the solution to all the worlds problems nor my own.

What so far has been my biggest problem with the CoS, their arbitrary denial of the freedom of speech through copyright law, time and again they refuse freedom of speech about the church, dissenting opinions or otherwise.
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That's silly. Loads of holy books and scriptures are copyright.
 
There was actully a big case about scientology and its tests in Norway not long ago. There was a teenage girl that took her own life after getting a bad test result. And keep in mind the things they say in that test is pretty sick. Especially if their said to Weak minded people that have little self esteem.

Examples: "is your life a constant fight for survival?"


Here is a norwegian link (sorry couldent find it in english):
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=505933

(It was the girl with the Red hat)



I have never quite understood how people can believe in that Strange Alien story anyway. :?
(*chuckles at the thought of the south park episode about it*)
 
EVERY life is a fight for survival.

Edit:

Who's that? I'd hit it.


1208248408529_89.jpg
 
Yoshi525 said:
During my isolation I have rethunk my life and decided perhaps Scientology is not the solution to all the worlds problems nor my own.
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:rofl:

Srsly, though: good for you.
 
Davy Crockett said:
EVERY life is a fight for survival.

Edit:

Who's that? I'd hit it.
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A Norwegian politician hehe, (she apparently knew the girl)

and hehe, im glad my life is no fight, its just made out of candy, XD (some that tastes bad ofcorse, but, Ey, it happens, right? ;) ).
 
*Deep breath*

Cons

- All major Religions are based on works of fiction (Bible/Koran/Torah/Book of Mormon/Dianetics)

- Religion is often used as a pretense to exploit, harm, and kill.

- There has been, and always will be deadly conflicts over Spiritual Beliefs.


Pros

- Religion provides a strong moral foundation for our society and laws.

- Many people in the poorer parts of the world have schools/homes built by missionaries in the name of religion, as well as food/medical care provided.

- It gives people hope; that although they may be experiencing hardship, that it is all just a test, and that they'll never be alone with god by their side.


Last (and most important of them all)

- It allows people to avoid facing their own mortality, (and the possibility that there is nothing but an all engulfing blackness upon death) by letting them believe that what you do in life actually matters in death, and that you may be rewarded with eternal life in heaven or through reincarnation.



***DISCLAIMER***

This is an opinion, nothing more. It is neither fact nor fiction. Simply a belief.
 
Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude said:
- All major Religions are based on works of fiction (Bible/Koran/Torah/Book of Mormon/Dianetics)
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You consider Scientology a "major" religion? I wouldn't call it a religion in the first place but it is certainly _not_ a major one.
 
Buxbaum666 said:
Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude said:
- All major Religions are based on works of fiction (Bible/Koran/Torah/Book of Mormon/Dianetics)
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You consider Scientology a "major" religion? I wouldn't call it a religion in the first place but it is certainly _not_ a major one.
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It is definitely one of the most recognizable religions, and with the massive hollywood support, it is growing.

If it wasn't a religion, it wouldn't have gained tax exempt status from the US government.
 
ze scientologists in belgium are currently being prosecuted for unlawful recruitment of members.

appearantly they posted job adds and then forced interested individuals to take all their tests and become members before they would be considered for the job.

this is unlawful in Belgium. but of course scientologists say they're being harrassed and targeted because they're "different".

(scientology was already on the list of dangerous cults and was already being investigated for other stuff as well)
 
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