Serious Discussion: Why is this series attracting so many idiots?

Very good posts, guys. I'm glad this topic attracted legitimate discussion and not shitposting. :razz:

I agree that it's broadening the demographic that's making it seem like idiots are clinging to the series. And I understand: they're a business and it makes the most sense to get their product to the most people they can. I just wish they'd find a good balance between mediocre/broad and satisfying the core fanbase. I know you can't satisfy everyone, but it seems like they didn't even try.

Earth said:
I don't know who that AiTenshi1 person is, but they need to remove themselves from the gene pool.
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I don't think you have to worry about anyone with a Hatsune Miku avatar reproducing any time soon.
 
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MercenarySnake said:
They attract idiots due to trying to cater to a wider audience by removing things like dialogue so they don't scare people away from having to stimulate their brains with reading and can back out of one liner dialogues to kill everything. They just want the money so if they can appeal to casual gamers that like to shoot everything up then it's extra cash for them. Bethesda are a marketing company first, gaming company second.
People like this make me want to bang my head against my desk from the stupidity.
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It's a shame that many of this generation prefer instant gratification over imagination. I'm not saying that action games or fps aren't fun or should die but turning every game into one simply because those are the loudest kids in the room is just sad. I read a Gary Gygax quote once about the essence of an RPG and the part that always stuck with me was "There is no winning or losing, but rather the value is in the experience of imagining yourself as a character in whatever genre you're involved in..."
 
Spacemunkey said:
MercenarySnake said:
They attract idiots due to trying to cater to a wider audience by removing things like dialogue so they don't scare people away from having to stimulate their brains with reading and can back out of one liner dialogues to kill everything. They just want the money so if they can appeal to casual gamers that like to shoot everything up then it's extra cash for them. Bethesda are a marketing company first, gaming company second.
People like this make me want to bang my head against my desk from the stupidity.
View attachment 2562
Click to expand...
It's a shame that many of this generation prefer instant gratification over imagination. I'm not saying that action games or fps aren't fun or should die but turning every game into one simply because those are the loudest kids in the room is just sad. I read a Gary Gygax quote once about the essence of an RPG and the part that always stuck with me was "There is no winning or losing, but rather the value is in the experience of imagining yourself as a character in whatever genre you're involved in..."
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It's a mix of instant gratification and imagination for their fans. What I mean by imagination is I remember they had arguments back during Skyrim when the fanboys would say, you just have to use your imagination unless you don't have one. Like "I role played I killed this character then married their wife" which translates to "I used the setessential command to set said NPC unessential, killed them then made the wife possible to marry".

Yes now it's "I'll be right back I'm using my imagination to play a "great RPG".
 
Spacemunkey said:
MercenarySnake said:
They attract idiots due to trying to cater to a wider audience by removing things like dialogue so they don't scare people away from having to stimulate their brains with reading and can back out of one liner dialogues to kill everything. They just want the money so if they can appeal to casual gamers that like to shoot everything up then it's extra cash for them. Bethesda are a marketing company first, gaming company second.
People like this make me want to bang my head against my desk from the stupidity.
View attachment 2562
Click to expand...
It's a shame that many of this generation prefer instant gratification over imagination. I'm not saying that action games or fps aren't fun or should die but turning every game into one simply because those are the loudest kids in the room is just sad. I read a Gary Gygax quote once about the essence of an RPG and the part that always stuck with me was "There is no winning or losing, but rather the value is in the experience of imagining yourself as a character in whatever genre you're involved in..."
Click to expand...

What's even more confounding to me is that this mindset seems to be leveled at games in particular: as I mentioned before with my writer friend who "just wants to shoot stuff," I also have a very intelligent friend who writes, loves grand stories and even plays D&D, yet complained to no end when I had her play Fallout 1. "Why can't I kill this quicker, why am I still here, I can't move fast enough, I just want to explore, etc." Rather than enjoy the pacing of how the story slowly unfolds, give people a controller (or mouse in that case) and suddenly they want to fly through the entire experience without committing much thought. I guess you can't be surprised, since video games are an interactive medium that offer instant gratification regularly.
 
MercenarySnake said:
It's a mix of instant gratification and imagination for their fans. What I mean by imagination is I remember they had arguments back during Skyrim when the fanboys would say, you just have to use your imagination unless you don't have one. Like "I role played I killed this character then married their wife" which translates to "I used the setessential command to set said NPC unessential, killed them then made the wife possible to marry".

Yes now it's "I'll be right back I'm using my imagination to play a "great RPG".
Click to expand...
"Use console commands", the other Bethesda meme that gets over shadowed by "mods will fix it."
 
Spacemunkey said:
MercenarySnake said:
It's a mix of instant gratification and imagination for their fans. What I mean by imagination is I remember they had arguments back during Skyrim when the fanboys would say, you just have to use your imagination unless you don't have one. Like "I role played I killed this character then married their wife" which translates to "I used the setessential command to set said NPC unessential, killed them then made the wife possible to marry".

Yes now it's "I'll be right back I'm using my imagination to play a "great RPG".
Click to expand...
"Use console commands", the other Bethesda meme that gets over shadowed by "mods will fix it."
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At this point in time Bethesda themselves have become a meme. "Bethesda games, the kind of games you have to turn your brain off to".
 
MercenarySnake said:
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I died inside a little. I hope you're happy.

TheSnake said:
Very good posts, guys. I'm glad this topic attracted legitimate discussion and not shitposting. :razz:

I agree that it's broadening the demographic that's making it seem like idiots are clinging to the series. And I understand: they're a business and it makes the most sense to get their product to the most people they can. I just wish they'd find a good balance between mediocre/broad and satisfying the core fanbase. I know you can't satisfy everyone, but it seems like they didn't even try.
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While it does make sense, it is not a must. You can have a company that keeps their employees and investors fed and happy, without going greedy and trying to appeal to necessarily most people.
The term niche, which today is used pretty much as an 'insult' when it comes to consumer oriented economies (like content producer companies are), means precisely that, that you have a context where you are successful and fill a gap. The right term is that you fill the niche. Bethesda fills a niche, actually, just that it is the biggest niche out there: people who play mindless fun games to distract themselves from their everyday life.

Spacemunkey said:
It's a shame that many of this generation prefer instant gratification over imagination. I'm not saying that action games or fps aren't fun or should die but turning every game into one simply because those are the loudest kids in the room is just sad. I read a Gary Gygax quote once about the essence of an RPG and the part that always stuck with me was "There is no winning or losing, but rather the value is in the experience of imagining yourself as a character in whatever genre you're involved in..."
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^This post should be the goddamn motto of the community.

TheSnake said:
What's even more confounding to me is that this mindset seems to be leveled at games in particular: as I mentioned before with my writer friend who "just wants to shoot stuff," I also have a very intelligent friend who writes, loves grand stories and even plays D&D, yet complained to no end when I had her play Fallout 1. "Why can't I kill this quicker, why am I still here, I can't move fast enough, I just want to explore, etc." Rather than enjoy the pacing of how the story slowly unfolds, give people a controller (or mouse in that case) and suddenly they want to fly through the entire experience without committing much thought. I guess you can't be surprised, since video games are an interactive medium that offer instant gratification regularly.
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As it's been discussed before (although in other words), the matter with your friend is not about wits, but about expectations.
She is most evidently expecting (prejudging) the medium to be about instant gratification and mindless fun.
If you go looking for something, think you found it, and then realize it is a whole different thing, you'll be disappointed too, even if what you found is actually terribly awesome.

Spacemunkey said:
"Use console commands", the other Bethesda meme that gets over shadowed by "mods will fix it."
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Yet the intersection between those and the ones who would feel insulted at the thought console commands might be an effective and user-time efficient way to control your computer is quite big.
 
Oppen said:
MercenarySnake said:
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I died inside a little. I hope you're happy.
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Well if you think that's bad just look at this piece of gold:
image.jpeg
This person thinks Fallout 1 and 2 are boring while Fallout 4 is "By far superior technically and as a gaming work of art". :lol:

I know I shouldn't of posted this but I had to show this off, credit goes to the Codex.
 
MercenarySnake said:
Well if you think that's bad just look at this piece of gold:
View attachment 2566
This person thinks Fallout 1 and 2 are boring while Fallout 4 is "By far superior technically and as a gaming work of art". :lol:

I know I shouldn't of posted this but I had to show this off, credit goes to the Codex.
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It isn't as bad as the other post. This one started all right until he said that Fallout 4 is a by far a superior work of art. The other though...

"Dialogue is not relevant to role playing. Most people who knows nothing about role playing agree with this, therefore I am right."

Also, regarding the last paragraph, what the hell? How were skill checks irrelevant to roleplaying in NV?

The problem with gaming is that most people doesn't consider it as a serious medium such as books or movies and don't have any standards. They just expect mindless fun and that's what the industry gives them. This is why indie games and Kickstarter have so much potential.
 
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Sergeant Politeness said:
MercenarySnake said:
Well if you think that's bad just look at this piece of gold:
View attachment 2566
This person thinks Fallout 1 and 2 are boring while Fallout 4 is "By far superior technically and as a gaming work of art". :lol:

I know I shouldn't of posted this but I had to show this off, credit goes to the Codex.
Click to expand...

It isn't as bad as the other post. This one started all right until he said that Fallout 4 is a by far a superior work of art. The other though...

"Dialogue is not relevant to role playing. Most people who knows nothing about role playing agree with this, therefore I am right."

Also, regarding the last paragraph, what the hell? How were skill checks irrelevant to roleplaying in NV?

The problem with gaming is that most people doesn't consider it as a serious medium such as books or movies and don't have any standards. They just expect mindless fun and that's what the industry gives them. This is why indie games and Kickstarter have so much potential.
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Mr Snake, you killed me.
 
So nice that you guys openly warn about the horrors of the official forum... Reasons to steer clear of that hellhole are getting more and more obvious. (Btw, I have never even had a look on the official forum, I would probably go through a complete brain metldown in the first five minutes there.)
 
Hexhammer said:
So nice that you guys openly warn about the horrors of the official forum... Reasons to steer clear of that hellhole are getting more and more obvious. (Btw, I have never even had a look on the official forum, I would probably go through a complete brain metldown in the first five minutes there.)
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I have looked there and died thirty times in anguish for the stupidity there.
 
MercenarySnake said:
They attract idiots due to trying to cater to a wider audience by removing things like dialogue so they don't scare people away from having to stimulate their brains with reading and can back out of one liner dialogues to kill everything. They just want the money so if they can appeal to casual gamers that like to shoot everything up then it's extra cash for them. Bethesda are a marketing company first, gaming company second.
People like this make me want to bang my head against my desk from the stupidity.
View attachment 2562
Click to expand...

I really wanted to go there and ask what the hell that person thinks roleplaying entails (note that, at this point "RPG" and "roleplaying game" are more or less distinct entities), but then I saw the anime avatar so I knew not to bother.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Hexhammer said:
So nice that you guys openly warn about the horrors of the official forum... Reasons to steer clear of that hellhole are getting more and more obvious. (Btw, I have never even had a look on the official forum, I would probably go through a complete brain metldown in the first five minutes there.)
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I have looked there and died thirty times in anguish for the stupidity there.
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I had to scrape the cancer from my eyes after venturing into the depths of a forbidden realm. I went there again after the backlash to see if people will stand up and criticize its faults but some extremist fanboys around the net are hard to reason with.
I don't mean to be mean but some of the fanboys treat him and Fallout 4 as the pinnacle of RPGs and gaming while they talk about how the originals and New Vegas couldn't begin to compare since they're boring.
 
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