Should NCR collapse and the games return to the West Coast?

Just asking but does the Institute need to be evil to achieve their goal? Even if it was yes, were they bad enough to need to be the main antagonist instead of just being a city of assholes like Vault City?
That's probably why Bethesda kept bringing up 'hints' and 'points' about the Institute being evil (like making and releasing FEV mutants to the surface for no valid reason) when all they amounted to was being xenophobic isolationists who hate and fear the surface due to not wanting to understand it (almost like Vault City except more pretentious about it).
 
That's probably why Bethesda kept bringing up 'hints' and 'points' about the Institute being evil (like making and releasing FEV mutants to the surface for no valid reason)
Maybe it was Bethesda's shitty attempt to create moral ambiguity. Let's just throw in this one line in the last minute that hints that our super evil badguys are not so bad even if it contradict what is previously established.
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This person clearly hasn't played FO2. The Enclave considers everyone who hasn't lived a Vault their whole life to be a mutant; and even then, they used residents of Vault 13 and other Vaults as test subjects.

From my experience trying to make a grammar checker and trying to write a story, it is easier to give advice how not to do something. Take for example FO:NV and Skyrim. Both have a civil war as a major plot point. People praised the conflict in Skyrim for being morally ambiguous and complain about Legion being too blatantly evil. Before we continue, I'll say that I think that the Legion suppose to be evil and the cut-content isn't going to make them somehow morally ambiguous. The thing is the civil war is pretty unimportant to the main quest in Skyrim (the civil war is only relevant to the main quest at exactly two points in the game.) while the civil war in FO:NV is the main plot. I believe the main source of moral ambiguity in FO:NV is the choice between the NCR, House, and Yes man. Caesar's Legion justifies the NCR's imperialistic occupation. Mr. House is only able to have a truce with the NCR because of the looming threat of Caesar's Legion. The most important part is how it seems like neither party can talk it over. With Skyrim, the main issue is Talos worship. After saving the world (an infinitely more important quest but just as unmotivated as the civil war), the Dovahkiin should have wield at least the same amount of influence as Ulfric Stormcloak. Or the Dovahkiin could just tell the elves to fuck off; because by fulfilling the Dragonborn prophecy, he essentially proved Talos' divinity. The game should have just ended after defeating Alduin. Also, you can't just kill Ulfric Stormcloak because that is too fun.

tl;dr If you think the key to writing a good story is just listening to some lazy aphorisms, then fuck you.

BTW: The only reason anyone sides with the Institute is to please the Sole Survivor's son.
 
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That's probably why Bethesda kept bringing up 'hints' and 'points' about the Institute being evil (like making and releasing FEV mutants to the surface for no valid reason) when all they amounted to was being xenophobic isolationists who hate and fear the surface due to not wanting to understand it (almost like Vault City except more pretentious about it).

I think the Institute was actually the victim of rewrites since I can tell someone had a very clear vision of them being comically evil superscientists and someone else had the view of them just being ignorant of the rights of Synths as well as deluded about the surface world's chances to survive. They were then shoved together so it's a more complicated situation but more complicated does not = better.

This person clearly hasn't played FO2. The Enclave considers everyone who hasn't lived a Vault their whole life to be a mutant; and even then, they used residents of Vault 13 and other Vaults as test subjects.

Yeah, it's important to understand the Enclave views Wastelanders as Orcs. They're mutants, FILTHY MUTANTS!

Someone should call Magneto.

From my experience trying to make a grammar checker and trying to write a story, it is easier to give advice how not to do something. Take for example FO:NV and Skyrim. Both have a civil war as a major plot point. People praised the conflict in Skyrim for being morally ambiguous and complain about Legion being too blatantly evil. Before we continue, I'll say that I think that the Legion suppose to be evil and the cut-content isn't going to make them somehow morally ambiguous. The thing is the civil war is pretty unimportant to the main quest in Skyrim (the civil war is only relevant to the main quest at exactly two points in the game.) while the civil war in FO:NV is the main plot.

Actually, I'd go one step further and say the Dragonborn is encouraged to think the Civil War is stupid and a pointless waste of lives (like many RL wars) given the Thalmor directly are stated to be trying to keep it going while the Greybeards also state it's a tragedy rather than a triumph. I agree, though, Caesar's Legion is meant to be the "bad Karma" option but it has the benefit of being able to clearly articulate its goals.

I believe the main source of moral ambiguity in FO:NV is the choice between the NCR, House, and Yes man. Caesar's Legion justifies the NCR's imperialistic occupation. Mr. House is only able to have a truce with the NCR because of the looming threat of Caesar's Legion.

Permanent peace in Mister House's home is only possible after the Legion is defeated, of course. Sadly, the truce between NCR and House is dummied out.

The most important part is how it seems like neither party can talk it over. With Skyrim, the main issue is Talos worship. After saving the world (an infinitely more important quest but just as unmotivated as the civil war), the Dovahkiin should have wield at least the same amount of influence as Ulfric Stormcloak. Or the Dovahkiin could just tell the elves to fuck off; because by fulfilling the Dragonborn prophecy, he essentially proved Talos' divinity. The game should have just ended after defeating Alduin. Also, you can't just kill Ulfric Stormcloak because that is too fun.

Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that since everybody believes in Talos' divinity. The question of renouncing Talos was never an issue of someone actually thinking he wasn't a god. Like one human being in the world actually believes the Thalmor and worships the Eight in private. The issue is it was forced on them at knifepoint.

I also see a truce between the parties as the ideal outcome and the lack of permanent one a tragedy which shouldn't have needed o happen.

BTW: The only reason anyone sides with the Institute is to please the Sole Survivor's son.

Actually, my opinion is Shaun is complete scum and my Sole Survivor felt like his son made his skin crawl. However, I sided with the Institute because I felt it was a choice between them or the BOS with the Minutemen or Railroad not feeling they could stand against them. The Institute had children in it and I had to do my best to save a remnant of civilization, even if their leaders were dickbags.
 
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Actually, I'd go one step further and say the Dragonborn is encouraged to think the Civil War is stupid and a pointless waste of lives (like many RL wars) given the Thalmor directly are stated to be trying to keep it going while the Greybeards also state it's a tragedy rather than a triumph. I agree, though, Caesar's Legion is meant to be the "bad Karma" option but it has the benefit of being able to clearly articulate its goals.
I meant that the civil war had nothing to do Alduin trying to destroy the world. It was only relevant to the plot because it is the reason why the Dragonborn was being executed and the forced treaty between the two if you haven't ended the civil war yet.
Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that since everybody believes in Talos' divinity. The question of renouncing Talos was never an issue of someone actually thinking he wasn't a god. Like one human being in the world actually believes the Thalmor and worships the Eight in private. The issue is it was forced on them at knifepoint.
The Thalmor made the distinction that Talos should not be worshiped because he was human. The Dragonborn saved everyone including those stupid knife-eared bastards.
I also see a truce between the parties as the ideal outcome and the lack of permanent one a tragedy which shouldn't have needed o happen.
One of the reasons why I disliked the idea that you have to be able to play the game after finishing the main quest is that it gets rid of the only deadline of these quests have. They can't show an epilogue because the player might not have finished that quest yet. A town would be in a perpetual state of starvation until you do something. In short, the game doesn't acknowledge ignoring the quest as an option anymore.
 
One of the reasons why I disliked the idea that you have to be able to play the game after finishing the main quest is that it gets rid of the only deadline of these quests have. They can't show an epilogue because the player might not have finished that quest yet. A town would be in a perpetual state of starvation until you do something. In short, the game doesn't acknowledge ignoring the quest as an option anymore.

For me, I wish they'd done it as a Trigger mechanism.

If you've done X quest, you get X ending slides.
 
I hate the Dragonborn story. It's an attempt at an epic prophecy but fails miserably in comparison to Morrowind, where you're not fighting boring EATZ DA WORLD Dragons but an old friend and well meaning God who wants to free Morrowind from the Imperials and lying Tribunal. The story of the Dragonborn may seem epic at first, but over time you are literally no better then this guy.
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Yes, you're pest control for Dragons.
 
I hate the Dragonborn story. It's an attempt at an epic prophecy but fails miserably in comparison to Morrowind, where you're not fighting boring EATZ DA WORLD Dragons but an old friend and well meaning God who wants to free Morrowind from the Imperials and lying Tribunal. The story of the Dragonborn may seem epic at first, but over time you are literally no better then this guy.

Yes, you're pest control for Dragons.

Actually the writing is a good deal cleverer than that. Say what you will about Miraak but he nicely sums up creating a Dragonborn actually means nothing. You can do whatever you want with your unlimited power and that includes ignoring your duty--which is a nice in-story way to explain why the Dragonborn is doing work for the Thieves Guild than saving the world.
 
For me, I wish they'd done it as a Trigger mechanism.

If you've done X quest, you get X ending slides.
That is what I meant by
They can't show an epilogue because the player might not have finished that quest yet.
The story of the Dragonborn may seem epic at first, but over time you are literally no better then this guy.
Stories do sound stupid when they get shorten. However, that is really how I feel about Skyrim. While playing Skyrim, I thought "Actually, I don't really want to save these people.". When playing FO:NV, I thought "This isn't about Benny anymore.". One of the cut endings was just going back to the NCR. For a world ending threat, it sures lacks a lot of urgency. I like listening to people's views on politics in New Vegas because it gives a different point of view. In Skyrim, you just check what song the bard is singing.
 
Being able to do what you want does not make a story complex.

The thing is that there's a deliberate contrast going on. The Stormcloaks vs. Imperials is a complex (compared to any game but Morrowind) political drama which is the end result of numerous political compromises and terrible acts with the ultimate evil being the Thalmor. The "joke" for lack of a better term being that it's all just a sideshow for the larger mythic event which everyone is ignoring until it's impossible to do so. There's no final confrontation with the Thalmor either.
 
BTW, Elder Scrolls Online was the most painfully generic thing I've played since....well, Oblivion.

The Thalmor are just wonderful hopeful nice elves there!

Elder Scrolls Online, how I was so disappointed after playing it. I like the idea behind it but it's just so boring. Watching someone create a custom Sole Survivor face is more entertaining than the ESO.

What about Ronto? Would that be worth exploring in a new Fallout game?
 
Watching someone create a custom Synth Survivor face
Fixed it for you. SS is a synth. The evidence is everywhere. Open your eyes. F4 is the best of the franchise.

Side note: I never tried ESO after I tried and hated Skyrim, and I (probably) know what you're going to say, but should I give it a go.
Side side note: I don't like most MMOs.
 
Elder Scrolls Online, how I was so disappointed after playing it. I like the idea behind it but it's just so boring. Watching someone create a custom Sole Survivor face is more entertaining than the ESO.

What about Ronto? Would that be worth exploring in a new Fallout game?

Fallout: Canada would be an interesting counterpoint to Fallout: America as I think it would play to Bethesda's strengths there as they do love getting into the nitty-gritty of the Pre-War world. Dealing with Canadians and how they felt about being subjugated by America would be interesting. It's a pity we've already had an evil hockey gang, though.

:)
 
Side note: I never tried ESO after I tried and hated Skyrim, and I (probably) know what you're going to say, but should I give it a go.
Side side note: I don't like most MMOs.

Even if you did like most MMOs, I still would not recommend ESO to anyone. I find it boring and I feel your actions have no effect. For example, one quest I remember is to kill a bunch of bandits, but once you do so another player can start the quest again instantly and fight the bandits you just wiped out, or even as you've killed the last bandit another player could have only just started to fight them. It doesn't mean you have to fight them again, but it's just... immersion breaking to me.

Tl;dr No give it a miss.
 
Bethesda's strengths
Holy crap you're right. The only things in Canada are houses and ice rinks. They have a valid excuse for copy/paste dungeons this time. Send them this idea, they'll promote you to exec.

Even if you did like most MMOs, I still would not recommend ESO to anyone. I find it boring and I feel your actions have no effect. For example, one quest I remember is to kill a bunch of bandits, but once you do so another player can start the quest again instantly and fight the bandits you just wiped out, or even as you've killed the last bandit another player could have only just started to fight them. It doesn't mean you have to fight them again, but it's just... immersion breaking to me.

Tl;dr No give it a miss.

Thanks.
 
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