SpaceWreck - Fallout inspired isometric retro indie RPG

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by Kamaz, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. Kamaz

    Kamaz It Wandered In From the Wastes

    137
    Oct 25, 2003


    In Space Wreck you get experience ONLY for completing todos (quests). That means combat is not a source of XP.

    Quite often in RPGs, it is disproportionally lucrative to murder anything that moves, because it grants XP and thus makes your character more powerful. Sometimes it even prompts some meta-gaming. We wanted to avoid that and, also, escape associated XP inflation. No matter if your character is Rambo or Gandhi (non-Civ version), you'll have the same XP potential. (Well, sort of. Depending on your WORK attribute, your XP rate can vary very strongly - from 80% to almost 200%. But that's a different story.)
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 7
  2. Proletären

    Proletären Vault Fossil
    Staff Member Admin

    Mar 15, 2012
    That system worked well in Pillars of Eternity.
     
  3. Kamaz

    Kamaz It Wandered In From the Wastes

    137
    Oct 25, 2003
    Indeed! I liked it in Bloodlines, too.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  4. Kamaz

    Kamaz It Wandered In From the Wastes

    137
    Oct 25, 2003


    Space Wreck is a non-linear game. It is short but full of content.
    This star map shows some (but not all) of your decisions that form your unique story.

    Note: this is still WIP.

    TL;DR

    We often have a problem with the game's length - people keep asking how long is the game and the honest answer is - it's short. We are speaking about 5 hours to complete the story. However, that does not mean that there are only 5 hours of content in the game, because it's non-linear, with self-excluding paths and very fringe subplots available only in certain cases.

    To mitigate this, we created this star map which should better convey the real situation.

    Few comments - the stars on the map are arguably more important plot (or subplot) points, many of them are the "ending slides". If they are small, it means this plot point has not yet been "explored", basically, not yet unlocked. Bigger stars - you have unlocked this story point at some time - it tracks this across playthroughs. And the line ("trek") is formed connecting the current save game's decisions.

    This is a work in progress and currently represents, at best, 30% of the whole game.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 6
  5. Proletären

    Proletären Vault Fossil
    Staff Member Admin

    Mar 15, 2012
    Oh neat!
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  6. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Didn't know PoE also has this XP system. Underrail with Oddity mechanics also, but the fact that the Oddities could be found in containers means the game could turn into Junk Collector Simulator, and some people couldn't sit well with that.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  7. Kamaz

    Kamaz It Wandered In From the Wastes

    137
    Oct 25, 2003


    1.1.96 Starmap update

    Decision map, character marks, weapon holster and many other changes.
    While working on the full version of the game, many more minor and bigger improvements have piled up and will be released to the demo version in this major update. That includes:

    • Star map with your story decisions mapped out and visualized.
    • The new level-up system with positive/negative character marks.
    • UI adjustments - notifications, new inventory/looting interface layout.
    • New starting preset for "combat" char.
    • Holster/unholster weapon button to avoid weird hostile reactions.
    • Updated also some demo quests with additional options, particularly Finn Alley's arc.
    • Obstacle highlighting while targeting or zero-G leaping.
    • NPC behaviours in combat and as companions.

    Here is the news post on Steam (with pictures!):
    https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1063540/view/3180116240854404477
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  8. Kamaz

    Kamaz It Wandered In From the Wastes

    137
    Oct 25, 2003


    Junk items can be a useful distraction. Handy, if you want to lure unsuspecting NPCs to a more favourable position.

    This is a small mechanic but it 1) makes `junk` items more useful; 2) gives you tools to manipulate character positions.

    This, along with location design - small sandbox hub worlds with absolute freedom to explore, functional items - poisonable bottles, floor cutting tools etc., and many ways to approach the objective, multi-layered story structure - have been inspired by Hitman games.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 5
  9. Ride For Crom

    Ride For Crom First time out of the vault

    10
    Jun 9, 2022
    That system is why I never finished Pillars of Eternity. Combat was unavoidable for my character, yet didn’t benefit my character at all in any way. Felt like more of an annoyance than a rewarding mechanic. I was just about to wishlist this game too.
     
  10. Kamaz

    Kamaz It Wandered In From the Wastes

    137
    Oct 25, 2003
    There is no difference if you are a diplomatic or a combat character, you get XP on reaching the goal and the goal for everyone is the same.

    And, also, the amount of XP you get is heavily dependent on your stats.

    Unlike most RPGs, levelling is not mandatory to complete the game. You have the hardest skill checks both at the beginning of the game and at the end areas; enemies don't really scale up in later parts of the game. The difficulty - type and amount of hostile NPCs - depends on the area you are in - e.g. is it an enemy base? is this zone heavily protected? - not how far you are in the game.

    And even if you are a combat character and have invested everything solely in "combat" attributes - say, PHYSICAL and ranged - you still can avoid combat if you find it hard. You can complete the game without combat even if you fail every skill check.

    P.S. No need to trust me, there's a free demo available where this, what I described ^ should be implemented and work, as described. If you find an instance where it is not, it is a bug; please tell me about it.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  11. Risewild

    Risewild Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I can understand people who enjoy making fighter characters and like battles in games to feel like they're being penalized for not getting XP from combat.
    On the other hand, combat usually rewards the characters with other things besides XP, like loot. If a game has enemies dropping their equipment when they die, then a character that fights a lot will be rewarded with more/better equipment and/or money from selling the extra loot or can craft more since enemies could also drop crafting materials (if the game has crafting).

    This already means that characters that are not made for combat or players that don't enjoy fighting are ALWAYS penalized in these games. Since they usually get less XP but also less loot and money.

    I usually make sneaky-type characters or warrior-type characters, and I see the difference in games where I sneak around enemies and where I just fight everything. Sneaking can usually also allow to get some of the loot by pickpocketing/stealing, but it's still very disproportionate compared to just killing all enemies and getting the goodies. I have no idea how diplomatic/pacifist characters work in most cRPGs when they don't grind XP and loot in battles.

    I can understand combat lovers feeling like they are being penalized, but the truth is that combat in cRPGs is usually much more rewarded than most other gameplay or character types. So removing XP from combat is actually just making it more balanced and helps prevent players from always choosing the combat characters over all the other options around. As long as combat is fun, I will still play and enjoy warrior-type characters, even if XP is not awarded or farmed in combat.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3
  12. Kamaz

    Kamaz It Wandered In From the Wastes

    137
    Oct 25, 2003
    In the case of SW, of course, enemies drop loot however it probably is not overpowering. Ammo and weapons - you need those only if you are a combat character. And, because you cannot easily convert loot to money or goods, it's just dead weight for others.

    Crafting materials - junk - are abundant all around, no need to fight, you can just pick them up or, if guarded, sneak by.

    You also have hardly anything obligatory to carry in the game aside from a space suit and fuel or fuel chip. So you can avoid looting at all.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3
  13. Ride For Crom

    Ride For Crom First time out of the vault

    10
    Jun 9, 2022
    I have my reservations, and my biases when it comes to games that don't give combat XP, but I'll download the demo and check the game out.


    For me, it's about risk/reward. Combat is an inherently risky endeavor. It also has unavoidable costs associated with it. Ammo, health, weapon/armor durability (in games where durability is a factor) all of which usually have a cost in resources such as currency or crafting materials to rectify. Not rewarding the character sufficiently for a successful combat engagement is punishing the character for choosing combat.

    I also disagree that characters who don't engage in combat are penalized, because in games with an economy, it's never combat characters who get the most money, it's the ones who play the economy. Trading between areas, crafting and selling crafted items, gambling etc all have nothing to do with combat and all reward the player with orders of magnitude more money than selling loot from combat.

    When it comes to leveling, different characters will have different leveling requirements. Characters who never engage in combat have no need a high health or magic pool, what need do pacifist characters have for leveling beyond getting their relevant skills maxed out?