Students of Fallout

[kikomiko]

It is a true RPG

In "true" RPGs only your character's statistics and skills matter, for example in combat.

ummm....combat in Fallout 3 is effected by your stats. I have read many times that, even when in first person.

How did you miss the "only" word? Thing is, stats and skills affect combat in FO3 (less than more from what I've read) but it's still possible to beat the crap out of things if you're good at circle strafing, bunny jumping and placing headshots on enemies.
And beating the crap out of things with a character with miserable stats and skills isn't possible in a "true" RPG.

If you are a low level, I guarantee you will have A LOT of trouble accomplishing that with some of the enemies in this game.

 

[PaladinHeart]

I sunk about a month of playtime into Oblivion, so I'm guessing that I'll enjoy Fallout 3 for at least that much time. I could be wrong though. *shrugs*

Also, what kind of class is this? People must be forced to play older games? Is it that hard to force yourself to play an old game just to understand what it's all about? People are so childish these days...

If Fallout 3 is as bad as NWN or Dungeon Siege (which I'm sure are fine games to some people, but not games I liked) then I'll be quick to resell it on eBay.

Heh. If Fable 2 were out on PC already then I would just get that and wait on Fallout 3. I'd like a new RPG though and, well, I don't exactly see a better choice on the market right now, for PS3 or PC (preferably for PC). If you really don't want me to get Fallout 3 (thereby depriving Beth of about $40, since I would eventually get it for about $20 in a bargain bin) then tell me of a better RPG that's out right now.

 

[JESUS]

They really thing that if a game has character stats to manage, inventory, loot and experience points the game must be a rpg.
The game is only a rpg( in my book at least), if the dialogue is good, the main quest is well done, the choices are there to make a difference and so on.
The skills, combat and all that are the things you expect them to have, there must be some rpgs out there that don't have those things (i have not played any that didn't though),and are still primarily rpgs; Oblivion is a action game with rpg elements, and Fallout 3 is following it, because the focus of the developers seens to be in combat, you know as Far Cry 2 is.

 

[Pope Viper]

Not from some of the videos I've seen, but maybe they were just playing on "easy" mode.

Oh, and watch the quote pyramid guys.

 

[Black]

If you are a low level, I guarantee you will have A LOT of trouble accomplishing that with some of the enemies in this game.

Considering that your regular Joe can kill super mutants at lvl 2 or 3, I doubt it.

 

[kikomiko]

They really thing that if a game has character stats to manage, inventory, loot and experience points the game must be a rpg.
The game is only a rpg( in my book at least), if the dialogue is good, the main quest is well done, the choices are there to make a difference and so on.

From what I've heard and seen, I'd have to say check, check, and check.

 

[Rev. Layle]

It is a true RPG

In "true" RPGs only your character's statistics and skills matter, for example in combat.

ummm....combat in Fallout 3 is effected by your stats. I have read many times that, even when in first person.

How did you miss the "only" word? Thing is, stats and skills affect combat in FO3 (less than more from what I've read) but it's still possible to beat the crap out of things if you're good at circle strafing, bunny jumping and placing headshots on enemies.
And beating the crap out of things with a character with miserable stats and skills isn't possible in a "true" RPG.

Well, actually it is, if you have really lucky dice rolls.



That being said, from what I have read, even in action combat bits (i.e, non-VATS mode), your damage/chance to hit are still affected by stats/skills (probably similar to Mass Effect) to a degree.

Ultimately, F3 will be an action RPG. What makes a game a"true" RPG to me (and I am a veteran of 15+ years of PnP playing) has little to do with it's combat style. The fact is, F3 is an RPG, just not a turn-based combat RPG.

(EDIT: i *THINK* F3 will be an RPG from what it plays out in previews, I may be sorely fooled here, however )

 

[Sorrow]

Some people prefer more than having to play a twitch game, where actual tactics are involved. From what I've seen, VATS is a slapped on attempt to provide tactics to essentially an FPS.

What VATS has to do with tactics?

 

[PaladinHeart]

... your regular Joe can kill super mutants at lvl 2 or 3, I doubt it.

I wonder if I could kill those super mutants in Necropolis at level 2 or 3... hmm.. Actually I think I have killed them at pretty low levels before. It just takes getting a good critical on the one with the minigun.

Err.. I think he had a minigun...

 

[Herr Mike]

Nice article despite inciting cascades of elitist dorkery, but what the heck kind of class is this? Are my tax dollars paying for it?

 

[Rev. Layle]

... your regular Joe can kill super mutants at lvl 2 or 3, I doubt it.

I wonder if I could kill those super mutants in Necropolis at level 2 or 3... hmm.. Actually I think I have killed them at pretty low levels before. It just takes getting a good critical on the one with the minigun.

Err.. I think he had a minigun...

Also learning how to abuse the nature of cover, enemy AI and frugal use of APs can get you very far very soon in F1 & F2 combat situations. However, you need to be somewhat verse on how to exploit that. Still, killing mutants at Necropolis at level 2 or 3 is pretty damn hard. Considering I can avoid any deadly random encounters to get there, I would make sure that almost all my skill points go into Small Guns for those first two level I raised (making sure it was tagged) and then pretty much doing called shots as often as possible.

Of course, most of you should know that a bit by now

 

[Sicblades]

It's probably critical analysis in media. Yes they require to play games, but the essays they've have to write is probably not so much fun. Regardless, it was a good read and points out various reasons why Fallout is one of the best RPGs ever.

 

[TheRatKing]

What VATS has to do with tactics?

VATS has nothing to do with tactics, but was an attempt to appease some fans with a pause mode. Basically, the only things the devs liked in Fallout combat was the targeting system, so they carried that over to F3. VATS is a glorified pause mode that is actually semi-cheating. The damage being done to you while you perform your slow mo shooting is dramatically reduced, so you hardly get hurt while shooting in VATS.

 

[taag]

I'm a bit surprised that they found Fallout difficult to get into. I remember very quickly mastering the demo and having no problems with full game, especially that all stats are clearly described.

Back then almost all games were isometric so it was easy to get into it. I believe they had trouble because they grew up playing first person 3D games.

 

[goffy59]

Just because it's different doesn't mean it's a failure. Those games are 10 years old, and they reflect a MUCH differnet type of genre that really is represented anymore. I think Fallout 3 will be great, because I am accepting it for what it is-not what I think it could have been.

You are accepting it for not being Fallout?

Absolutely. I actually LOVED Oblivion, so it's natural I would feel the same for FO3

So that's the main draw for you, that it's Oblivion, just with guns and mutants?

Huh.

What's wrong with that? Also, it's much more than that. You guys are not doing this game justice. It may be very different from the previous Fallouts, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It still features amazing environments, a deep story, and it is FUN to explore.

Disagree. And what do you mean you guys? You know how many people are on this forum? Don't put all of "us" in you're cubby hole. Thank you, now please play the originals.

And if you still can't see the light, it is my humble opinion that you have bad taste. Shun the non-believers! Shun!!>..

 

[Herr Mike]

The implication that there is something wrong with making a game easy to get the hang of is a bit whack, to be honest. There are several games I tried and gave up on, as a younger man.

I'm not sure what makes Fallout so difficult though. I guess I played the demo so much I was thoroughly familiar with the mechanics beforehand.

That said, it would greatly benefit the next generation if they realized from an earlier age that yes, you do have to work at something from time to time. I suppose as it relates to games, the console crowd has always demanded simplicity. Now that the former Nintendo kids have spending power, that line of thinking has become firmly established in game design.

 

[Rev. Layle]

I'm a bit surprised that they found Fallout difficult to get into. I remember very quickly mastering the demo and having no problems with full game, especially that all stats are clearly described.

Back then almost all games were isometric so it was easy to get into it. I believe they had trouble because they grew up playing first person 3D games.

True, in 97, the breadth of FP 3d games was certainly thinner than today. Even then, only a handful of those games were any good. Why waste resources on FP/3D (at least then) when you needed them to make a decent game engine, AI, scripting, etc... Today, 3D (FP, TP, or any other view) practically seems like a development standard and really does not get in the way of the development of parts of a game system anymore.

 

[Sicblades]

I didn't have much of a clue what was going on when I first picked up fallout... I actually didn't know what was going for a while... so I can't say that it was easy to get into.

I did find it intriguing and wanted to keep pushing on ahead though.

 

[PaladinHeart]

Alternatively, you could put all your skill points into your gunpower, perks into making your character the toughest thing to ever walk the Fallout world, and a super mutant could get a defense bypasser and do over 1000 damage.

One thing I've always disliked about the original Fallouts and Fallout Tactics are the magical "defense bypassers" like all the bullets somehow magically go around your armor, character's natural defenses, etc.. and do full damage. I'd love to be able to edit the game and take that out.. especially for Fallout Tactics. How tactical is a game where you can magically kill someone or magically be killed in one hit?

Anyways, I'm sure Fallout 3 probably won't be as good as the originals, but will still be (for some) worth playing.

(Wow NMA was really lagging there for about 3 minutes)

 

[TheRatKing]

Graphics in general help greatly determine how much time you spend trying out a game. Back when I played civ2 and marathon, fallout was not hard to get into because the graphics are all similarly low-res, and in the standard today, pretty bad. I recently tried Wasteland, hoping for something similar to Fallout in terms of graphics, boy was I wrong. Through some fierce determination (and the help of Per's guide for character building) I finally got into it. It took me a LOT harder than the fallouts, because I simply wasn't used to the graphics.