Students of Fallout

[Tagaziel]

Just because it's different doesn't mean it's a failure. Those games are 10 years old, and they reflect a MUCH differnet type of genre that really is represented anymore. I think Fallout 3 will be great, because I am accepting it for what it is-not what I think it could have been.

You are accepting it for not being Fallout?

Absolutely. I actually LOVED Oblivion, so it's natural I would feel the same for FO3

So that's the main draw for you, that it's Oblivion, just with guns and mutants?

Huh.

What's wrong with that? Also, it's much more than that. You guys are not doing this game justice. It may be very different from the previous Fallouts, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It still features amazing environments, a deep story, and it is FUN to explore.

How do you know it's deep? From our knowledge, it's pretty retarded.

 

[Leon]

How tactical is a game where you can magically kill someone or magically be killed in one hit?

I have to disagree. It adds unpredictability to the games, and makes combat far more interesting and tense. You can have the best anything and everything, and can still be done in by a fluke, a lucky shot. Such things happen in real life, and it lends itself well to gameplay. It keeps nearly every encounter interesting, because you never know just what might happen.

 

[Fairbanks]

@ Multidirectional - Strike for backseat moderating. It's not your place to try to point out trolling.

@Fairbanks - Strike for personal attacks. This forum is not a "hate ground for Oblivion lovers". It a forum that looks for opinions that can be backed up with facts.

I'm one to say that this game has strayed way of the path of what the original Fallout games were. Besides that however, I've been playing Fallout for the past 9 years. Sure, we would all like a TB Fallout 3. Why don't they go all Mega Man 9 and just release the same old graphics and a new story. I think that would be great.

The point is. . . . .it's not going to happen.

Fan mods. . .yes

But a legit release of a new TB Fallout game. I don't even think Interplay will head down tha road when they finally get around to making the MMO. Sure, Fallout 3 is exactly what the new gaming community wants, and it makes true fans cringe. However, its the most new Fallout anyone here will get in a while. It might be a half-spawn of what Fallout was, bt that doesn't make it a horrible game. If you don't like Fallout 3, just don't play it. Ignore it. But if someone actually thinks that this game will be at the least entertaining, It doesn't make them an idiot.

 

[Sicblades]

Graphics in general help greatly determine how much time you spend trying out a game. Back when I played civ2 and marathon, fallout was not hard to get into because the graphics are all similarly low-res, and in the standard today, pretty bad. I recently tried Wasteland, hoping for something similar to Fallout in terms of graphics, boy was I wrong. Through some fierce determination (and the help of Per's guide for character building) I finally got into it. It took me a LOT harder than the fallouts, because I simply wasn't used to the graphics.

I just got Planescape: Torment, I hope I can get into it fairly quickly.

 

[Pope Viper]

I think you'll find P:T a really enjoyable game, just make sure to read the dialogue. The story is really engaging.

 

[Mettle]

Alternatively, you could put all your skill points into your gunpower, perks into making your character the toughest thing to ever walk the Fallout world, and a super mutant could get a defense bypasser and do over 1000 damage.

One thing I've always disliked about the original Fallouts and Fallout Tactics are the magical "defense bypassers" like all the bullets somehow magically go around your armor, character's natural defenses, etc.. and do full damage. I'd love to be able to edit the game and take that out.. especially for Fallout Tactics. How tactical is a game where you can magically kill someone or magically be killed in one hit?

Anyways, I'm sure Fallout 3 probably won't be as good as the originals, but will still be (for some) worth playing.

(Wow NMA was really lagging there for about 3 minutes)

I disagree, it's somewhat nice to actually know that a bullet might hit through a joint in your armor or the like - It's no fun to feel immortal.

Tactics does'nt dictate wether you are "one-shotted" or "one-shoot" people though. Tactics dictate wether your opponent gets the chance at all..

 

[Sicblades]

I'm not one to pick up a game for prettiness so I'll be reading the dialogue for sure. Sounds like it's a classic.

 

[JESUS]

How tactical is a game where you can magically kill someone or magically be killed in one hit?

I have to disagree. It adds unpredictability to the games, and makes combat far more interesting and tense. You can have the best anything and everything, and can still be done in by a fluke, a lucky shot. Such things happen in real life, and it lends itself well to gameplay. It keeps nearly every encounter interesting, because you never know just what might happen.

Exactly, when i last played Fallout some asshole raider gave me a critical hit in the eyes that pretty much killed me, because my percentage hits went to almost zero everywhere except the body at aimed shots.
It's not magically bypassing your armor, they are critical hits like yours or aimed shots (like yours), that's why you had to save often.

 

[Pope Viper]

I guess one way you could look at it is that perhaps there was some type of material flaw in your armor, or something.

It's an interesting question though.

 

[TheRatKing]

Personally, I find PS: T the epitome of RPGs. Every interaction in the world in character based rather than player based. Hell, you couldn't even solve a riddle unless your character had a high int, unlike so many RPGs like Baldur's Gate where the player chooses from a list. Anyways Sicblades, if you do play through, I recommend playing a high int, wis, and charisma character, you will get so much more out of the game.

 

[Mettle]

I guess one way you could look at it is that perhaps there was some type of material flaw in your armor, or something.

It's an interesting question though.

Wearing an armor does'nt mean you wear an impenetrable fortress of bulletproof materials though, Armor Penetration criticals might aswell be joint hits. *Shrugs*

From what I understand though, all those nice things are out of F3..

 

[Morbus]

So Mass Effect was a bad game? Please elaborate. I'm interested to hear your guys' argument for this.

Wow, Mass Effect is so bad a game I can't even begin to talk about. No, I actually can. The plot is crap, as in CRAP!!! The combat is crap as in wouldn't make a difference if it wasn't there, the skill tree is crap as in same thing as combat, the dialog is awful AWFUL as in they'd be better off using a system similar to The Witcher's with less "choices" and more quality writing, and that's about it. The game fails to provide fun to an average gamer in almost all aspects.

Well, Fallout 3 is definitely NOT an action game with RPG elements. It is a true RPG, but it uses real combat. I fail to see what's so wrong with that.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that. On the other hand, Fallout 3 has so many problems to it that even if the combat was turn based, it still wouldn't be a worthy sequel. I mean, I haven't played the game, but since it's ok for you to assume it's "NOT" an action game with RPG elements, I believe it's ok for me to assume it will be full of powerplay, combat everyone, and irrelevant choices a la mass effect. So, all in all, I believe it's actually an action game with RPG elements, one of which is choices and consequences, and mild choices and consequences at that.

Because, you know, the RPG subgenre isn't a big dump genre like the adventure genre... People tend to forget that RPGs are about actual role-play, or should be. It's not a new thing people calling role-playin games to action games, though, so I guess it's understandable and even acceptable.

 

[PaladinHeart]

How tactical is a game where you can magically kill someone or magically be killed in one hit?

I have to disagree. It adds unpredictability to the games, and makes combat far more interesting and tense. You can have the best anything and everything, and can still be done in by a fluke, a lucky shot. Such things happen in real life, and it lends itself well to gameplay. It keeps nearly every encounter interesting, because you never know just what might happen.

I think unpredictability belongs more in a non-tactical game. What if you were playing something like.. Warhammer, and you've got 30 pikemen lined up against 15 approaching mounted units, and they all get a defense bypasser (by some stroke of luck) and kill half your regiment that was pretty much designed to take out those riders? Taking this knowledge then you can apply a strange logic where "more critical% = win" and the game becomes easily exploitable.

This isn't a problem if you save often, but if someone were to want to play more hardcore, only saving at certain points, then it would make for some very unpredictable results.

The worst example of how this is bad can be seen in the de-evolution of Fallout Tactics' online play into 10K wars. All the strategy, tactics, options.. everything was gone and all you're left with are people with 1 character pumping +crit drugs so they can get critical def. bypassers. They even patched the game.. PATCHED it now, to make this a more viable option, by having the points you spend apply to every character slot, rather than for all or one (you could no longer bring 5 2k characters into a 10k game).

Edit: Apologies for my off-topic ranting. >.>;

Edit 2: Sorry it takes me so long to post that I miss the posts in between. xD Anyways, just wanted to clarify that I have nothing against the criticals that blind, cripple, etc.. your character. I just don't like those that say something along the lines of "bypasses your defenses" and it does the maximum possible damage. This wouldn't be such a huge issue if each bullet were calculated seperately. How can a full burst get a complete defense bypasser? Fire 1000 bursts from your favorite SMG into a target practice.. thingy (whatever you gun collectors use) and see how many of those bursts would classify as a complete defense bypasser.

Basically just saying a defense bypasser should not be possible with burst fire.

 

[Pope Viper]

So Mass Effect was a bad game? Please elaborate. I'm interested to hear your guys' argument for this.

Wow, Mass Effect is so bad a game I can't even begin to talk about. No, I actually can. The plot is crap, as in CRAP!!! The combat is crap as in wouldn't make a difference if it wasn't there, the skill tree is crap as in same thing as combat, the dialog is awful AWFUL as in they'd be better off using a system similar to The Witcher's with less "choices" and more quality writing, and that's about it. The game fails to provide fun to an average gamer in almost all aspects.

I've just started playing ME, should I stop now?

 

[Per]

I'm seeing giant quotes from kikomiko, goffy59 and Mikael Grizzly to name a few, even after several reminders. People, trimming down your quotes to what you're replying to is just basic netiquette. If you can't learn it here, go away and learn it somewhere else. Strikes will be handed out for spamming if this goes on.

 

[JESUS]

Fan mods. . .yes

Sure, Fallout 3 is exactly what the new gaming community wants, and it makes true fans cringe. However, its the most new Fallout anyone here will get in a while. It might be a half-spawn of what Fallout was, bt that doesn't make it a horrible game. If you don't like Fallout 3, just don't play it. Ignore it. But if someone actually thinks that this game will be at the least entertaining, It doesn't make them an idiot.

Nobody should ignore the flaws in Fallout 3 just because the modders will fix things later, like they did with Oblivion. And i doubt the modders will be able to make Fallout 3 turn based, they have to change a lot of engine stuff to do that, i'm not a modder though so i will wait and see.

The just "ignore Fallout 3 if you don't like it" reasoning is old already, we are fans of Fallout how can we ignore this mess?
Nobody said the game will not be entertaining, you have to agree there are forms of entertainment, Fallout 3 is not the same as Fallout entertainment though.

 

[Morbus]

It is a true RPG

In "true" RPGs only your character's statistics and skills matter, for example in combat.

ummm....combat in Fallout 3 is effected by your stats. I have read many times that, even when in first person.

Not enough. He said "only" our characters stats. There's a reason for that, and it was subject to debate many times now, here and in many places. Go read those arguments.

 

[Sicblades]

Personally, I find PS: T the epitome of RPGs. Every interaction in the world in character based rather than player based. Hell, you couldn't even solve a riddle unless your character had a high int, unlike so many RPGs like Baldur's Gate where the player chooses from a list. Anyways Sicblades, if you do play through, I recommend playing a high int, wis, and charisma character, you will get so much more out of the game.

Well I didn't buy it to stare at the case! thanks for the recommendation though, I can't wait till it actually gets to me so I can play a game I'll actually enjoy for once lol

 

[Morbus]

I think this is a point we'll just have to agree to disagree.

There's much more to an RPG than combat.

What RPGs have you played?

Well,(keep in mind I'm only 15) my favorite RPG's over the last few years have been:

1.Dragon Quest VIII
2.Oblvion
3.Mass Effect
4.Tales of Vesperia
5.Final Fantasy Tactics Advance

Janapese stuff, as usual. FF Tactics advance is a turn based tactical game, not an RPG, same goes for most jRPGs out there.

Why don't you try the old good ones instead? Darklands, Arcanum, Torment, stuff like that. And even some more story driven, maybe something you're more used to, like Betrayal at Kondor and the like?

So Mass Effect was a bad game? Please elaborate. I'm interested to hear your guys' argument for this.

Wow, Mass Effect is so bad a game I can't even begin to talk about. No, I actually can. The plot is crap, as in CRAP!!! The combat is crap as in wouldn't make a difference if it wasn't there, the skill tree is crap as in same thing as combat, the dialog is awful AWFUL as in they'd be better off using a system similar to The Witcher's with less "choices" and more quality writing, and that's about it. The game fails to provide fun to an average gamer in almost all aspects.

I've just started playing ME, should I stop now?

No, the game is easy and small enough for you to decide on your own when to stop. I managed to finish it once and play it again half way through, which had the upside of enabling me to talk about the game. It's always good to have an opinion. One tip though: FORGET the sidequests. They are as void and pointless as the Oblivion's main quest.

 

[fedaykin]

Ehhh. Man, don't list Darklands first. If he happens to play it first, he'll hate you. Really, if he finds Fallout too confusing, he'll be completely overwhelmed by Darklands.

By the way, kikomiko, how old were you when you played Fallout the first time?