The aspect of Fallout 3 that i liked better then New Vegas

lets be honest here though. Without Fallout 3 Fallout Vegas would be only mediocre.

Its like going to a club with 2 ugly females but you find the one good looking because the other is much more ugly.

Certain parts in Fallout 3 have been "ok" like that empty feeling of the wasteland. It was fun walking around the locations till you realized that it was a dull world where nothing matters and the NPCs have the inteligence of a amoeba and the best dialogue by the player is "searching for a midle aged guy you seen him ?".

But if Vegas would have been Fallout 3 for example it would receive much more criticism I think. At least here. I agree that Vegas is probably the game closest to the Fallout spirit we will ever get. But it does not mean it has not many rather "silly" things. And vegas does contain many ruins and destroyed buildings. But it just feels sometimes very weird. Like as it would make no sense. The comunities and their distance to each other. You have the city of Vegas and then you have the Boomers right next to it, the damn is a 30sec. walk from the city and the Legion camping over the river ... its all to cramped. Not to mention the City of Vegas makes no sense what so ever. I wish they would have tried to make it a bit more ... realistic. Believable. A trading hub of some sort. And no. Engine limitation is no excuse in my eyes. They are developers. They should have the skill to find ways around it. If modders can do it. They should be capable to do so as well.
 
How does Vegas make no sense? Also there are various trading Hubs, the Crimson Caravan HQ, the 188, The Mojave Outpost, thsoe are places that every traveler to and from New Vegas would have to go through and they all sell useful items, the ruins make mroe sense than FO3 ones ebcause the Mojave didn't decay because of Bombs btu because of riots and the humans themselves, there are destryed Buildings, that woudl make no sense to stay destroyed after 200 years, but who says thsoe were destroyed back then? there are various Raider Factions and the peopel in the Mojave seem the kind of people that would make riots, you just asume too many things and asume them in the worst sense. And is Cramped ebcause of Engine limtations, they should have known better, but they were given half the developing time FO3 was given.
 
Crni Vuk said:
lets be honest here though. Without Fallout 3 Fallout Vegas would be only mediocre.

Its like going to a club with 2 ugly females but you find the one good looking because the other is much more ugly.

Certain parts in Fallout 3 have been "ok" like that empty feeling of the wasteland. It was fun walking around the locations till you realized that it was a dull world where nothing matters and the NPCs have the inteligence of a amoeba and the best dialogue by the player is "searching for a midle aged guy you seen him ?"
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Yeah but Fallout: New Vegas wouldn't exist in it's current form if Fallout 3 didn't exist. If New Vegas didn't have to emulate Fallout 3, its simplistic SPECIAL system and FPS shooter mechanics.

Crni Vuk said:
But if Vegas would have been Fallout 3 for example it would receive much more criticism I think. At least here. I agree that Vegas is probably the game closest to the Fallout spirit we will ever get. But it does not mean it has not many rather "silly" things. And vegas does contain many ruins and destroyed buildings. But it just feels sometimes very weird. Like as it would make no sense. The comunities and their distance to each other. You have the city of Vegas and then you have the Boomers right next to it, the damn is a 30sec. walk from the city and the Legion camping over the river ... its all to cramped. Not to mention the City of Vegas makes no sense what so ever. I wish they would have tried to make it a bit more ... realistic. Believable. A trading hub of some sort. And no. Engine limitation is no excuse in my eyes. They are developers. They should have the skill to find ways around it. If modders can do it. They should be capable to do so as well.
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Well we just have to accept that in the small maps of the Gamebyro series that everything is scaled; just like the passage of time is scaled. If we're going by that logic we can run from the Chinatown gate to Golden Gate bridge in less than one minute. I mean we aren't supposed to take that pre-war Vegas had only three megacasinos (Mr House directly says that the Strip was only a fraction of what Vegas was). It's all about scale, only Gamebyro makes it look more realistic and therefore silly whereas Fallout 1 and 2 are kind of accepted to be limited in scale.

New Vegas was established specifically to cater to the NCR whom House could tell were some kind of organised military force, serving a civilian population and therefore a government whom might require the kind of services that Vegas can supply. I admit that it's slightly silly but Vegas's Casinos are only the first part of Houses plan, he wants to make some kind of supercity that's safe, advanced and all that jazz; he's just getting the cash reserves and securing the future of the local area from external threats.

As for the developers, they were working on a limited time scale, presumably the Christmas period of 2010; I mean the game was horribly buggy, most likely because the Bethesda execs didn't want the game released past this period. It was just an in-between Skyrim cash-cow for Bethesda, I doubt the term "fix it in post" has ever been more correct. My point ultimately is that they were working on a tight release scheduel on top of the QA testing and such and the size of the wasteland and such is pretty evident that the pressure of time was on.
 
Walpknut said:
How does Vegas make no sense? Also there are various trading Hubs, the Crimson Caravan HQ, the 188, The Mojave Outpost, thsoe are places that every traveler to and from New Vegas would have to go through and they all sell useful items, the ruins make mroe sense than FO3 ones ebcause the Mojave didn't decay because of Bombs btu because of riots and the humans themselves, there are destryed Buildings, that woudl make no sense to stay destroyed after 200 years, but who says thsoe were destroyed back then? there are various Raider Factions and the peopel in the Mojave seem the kind of people that would make riots, you just asume too many things and asume them in the worst sense. And is Cramped ebcause of Engine limtations, they should have known better, but they were given half the developing time FO3 was given.
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It certainly makes more sense than FO3, but it's true that everything is too cramped. Thats one of those drawbacks of a 3D engine, i guess. I certainly was much more immersed in the classic fallouts, feeling i was alone in this huge frightening wasteland...
 
Sabirah said:
I have to say, I liked Three dog and really missed him in NV
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I thought Three Dog was a lot more annoying than Mr. New Vegas, and at least Mr. NV didn't seem to always be preoccupied with whatever I was up to. The only thing that annoyed me about Mr. NV was that he seems to have to talk in between almost every song but I think that might be a bug.
 
Walpknut said:
How does Vegas make no sense?
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Because it is neither a trading hub nor offers anything else of real value. It is a location full of casinos. But that is one point. The economy of Vegas is not really well worked out. But that is another story.

What I mean are the visuals.

Vegas and the location is explained as a very huge and important area where the NCR wants it and Caesar to make out of Vegas his "Rome".

Yet when I am looking at that location I never get the feeling of "size" or that it would be "important" as location.

And yeah I agree with what someone else hear said. Obsidian had to deal with what Bethesda gave them. And it was this gameybro engine.

Still I think even with this kind of engine they could have achieved something. I mean the last battle in Fallout 3 feelt more "epic" the nwhat you had at Hoover Dam.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Walpknut said:
How does Vegas make no sense?
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Because it is neither a trading hub nor offers anything else of real value. It is a location full of casinos. But that is one point. The economy of Vegas is not really well worked out. But that is another story.
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That's kind of how Vegas' economy works in the present day. I don't see anything unrealistic about a tourist economy that uses their large income to buy anything they need. Before the NCR showed up Vegas was just as poor as anyone else and was made up of several warring tribes.


Still I think even with this kind of engine they could have achieved something. I mean the last battle in Fallout 3 feelt more "epic" the nwhat you had at Hoover Dam.
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You do get to fight a lot more people at Hoover Dam than at the final battle in FO3, but it still doesn't feel very epic since gamebryo tends to crash when there's more than a couple NPC's in one room. I have to admit that the Caesar's Legion battle does seem to be a lot more fun than the rest.
 
Yes Veghas is not self suficient, that is by desing, it's not a trading Hub is just a tourist Trap to keep the NCR Busy and interested in the region.

The Last battle in FO3 was just a bunch of generic NPCs wearing power armor getting steped over by an immortal giant npc, while missiles that came out of mountaisn hit the thing but never the players, just a bunch of old boring sploshuns, no challenge at all, no sense of accomplishment, nothing, the Hoover Dam battle was affected by your actions,walking up to the Legion Chekcpoint and watching the Boomers carpet bomb the NCR/Legion forces from afar was a lot more satisfying than just following the giant robot. the Remnants arriving and helping you disintegrate yoru enemies, beign able to open hatches to get the Legion into the Dam, or on the other side, manipualting the flow of the water to grind the Legion forces trying to sneak in. Much better than "Follow the robot".
 
Walpknut said:
Yes Veghas is not self suficient, that is by desing, it's not a trading Hub is just a tourist Trap to keep the NCR Busy and interested in the region.

The Last battle in FO3 was just a bunch of generic NPCs wearing power armor getting steped over by an immortal giant npc, while missiles that came out of mountaisn hit the thing but never the players, just a bunch of old boring sploshuns, no challenge at all, no sense of accomplishment, nothing, the Hoover Dam battle was affected by your actions,walking up to the Legion Chekcpoint and watching the Boomers carpet bomb the NCR/Legion forces from afar was a lot more satisfying than just following the giant robot. the Remnants arriving and helping you disintegrate yoru enemies, beign able to open hatches to get the Legion into the Dam, or on the other side, manipualting the flow of the water to grind the Legion forces trying to sneak in. Much better than "Follow the robot".
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But there was no spectacle, It was 20 guys with cool masks shooting one another and a game freezing bombing sequence.

The way I would have done it were I CA was I would make it like a special forces mission, you go nowhere near the dam and only see it at a distance with fire and people running around. Being on the dam pretty much defeats the threat of NCR/Legion because one power armored Egyptian girl and a robot can defeat both armies easily.
 
I liked how the battle of Hoover Dam had all the optional parts, like rescuing POWs and what not. It made the whole thing seem more fluid and real, and added to the replay value a bit. Every time you play Fallout 3 the final battle is going to be the same old scripted event but the final battle in NV will be different every time depending on your actions. That makes it a lot cooler IMO.
 
But it actualy was affected by your actions, there were various things you could do to shift the balance durign the battle and now yo ualso get Medical Stashes if you convince the Followers to help.
 
Courier said:
I liked how the battle of Hoover Dam had all the optional parts, like rescuing POWs and what not. It made the whole thing seem more fluid and real, and added to the replay value a bit. Every time you play Fallout 3 the final battle is going to be the same old scripted event but the final battle in NV will be different every time depending on your actions. That makes it a lot cooler IMO.
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Well that's a cool addition but it isn't worth anything if the base event is bad.
 
I really never understood how people thought the battle at the end of NV was worse than the battle at the end of FO3. In FO3 you follow an invincible robot around that steals all your kills, you might occasionally be able kill somebody yourself. You then walk into the purifier, talk to a guy who you can either kill or convince to leave (but not side with, even though he seems like the most sane person in the game), then you're treated to the stupidest "moral choice" in the history of gaming.

At least you got to kill people at Hoover Dam.
 
^but your problem with ti seems to just be the armies being underequipped, so they woudl only need to equip all Legionaries with Bursh gun and Balistic Fists? I don't see the Problem with the Dam Battle, Only the House/Independent paths for that battle were kidn of boring, btu the NCR and legion paths are very satisfying.
 
The Legion battle was especially satisfying, the ending where you have to fight through the whole building full of NCR rangers is one of the few genuinely hard parts of NV. Especially considering that most companions will have left you by then for siding with the Legion, making the whole thing more poignant.

Edit: And the Arizona Killer quest that leads up to it is excellent, way better than anything in FO3.
 
Courier said:
steals all your kills
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Dude, this aint counter strike

Courier said:
The Legion battle was especially satisfying, the ending where you have to fight through the whole building full of NCR rangers is one of the few genuinely hard parts of NV. Especially considering that most companions will have left you by then for siding with the Legion, making the whole thing more poignant.
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I will agree with that. Salvaged my whole "Thugee" run IMO
 
You're the one who complains about the battle not being as exciting as Fallout 3's. In Fallout 3's battle you literally follow an invincible robot around for ten minutes while he shoots laser beams at people and throws mini-nukes. It might be cool at first, but the whole scripted feel of it destroys any excitement in future replays, while NV's battle remains fresh every time you play.
 
Courier said:
You're the one who complains about the battle not being as exciting as Fallout 3's. In Fallout 3's battle you literally follow an invincible robot around for ten minutes while he shoots laser beams at people and throws mini-nukes. It might be cool at first, but the whole scripted feel of it destroys any excitement in future replays, while NV's battle remains fresh every time you play.
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But it's just so sterile (On the NCR/House/Yes man side) Sure you have a greater degree of participation, but the whole event is like Billu Barber, A good idea marred by bad execution.
 
That's because the whole combat system is flawed in both games, it's hard to get a cool battle on this engine. The only way Fallout 3 got passed it was by making it so that you never got to do any actual fighting. Both game's endings are bad, New Vegas' is just slightly better because it's more interesting to replay and since your actions have impacts on the battle (and since there's not a godawful retarded "I can't go in because it's your destiny to needlessly sacrifice yourself" ending.)
 
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