What's the purpose? To improve accuracy? Soften the sound? 
(Gun noob here)
(Gun noob here)
The Guns and Ammo Thread
- Thread starter Kalessin
- Start date
cronicler
Lurksalot
The sound produced by a "Shot" looks like a spike in Decibel/Time graph and unless you are firing something along the bottom of the power curve (through a long barrel for the said caliber) the spike will be high enough to hurt your hearing.
Now, a single spike won't cause permanent harm but if you are shooting regularly (remember, it can take up to 1000 shots to become proficient in marksmanship for a single class of guns. Just proficient, not expert mind you.) then the sound becomes a problem.
The main thing is, this isn't a problem for the shooter as s/he will be wearing ear protection (wear your ear protection every time you shoot), the problem stems from the way sound "spikes" propagate and effect nearby spectators or annoy people who are actually not close to the shooting but whom experience the sound due to the geographic features channel the sound of shots.
Now, a single spike won't cause permanent harm but if you are shooting regularly (remember, it can take up to 1000 shots to become proficient in marksmanship for a single class of guns. Just proficient, not expert mind you.) then the sound becomes a problem.
The main thing is, this isn't a problem for the shooter as s/he will be wearing ear protection (wear your ear protection every time you shoot), the problem stems from the way sound "spikes" propagate and effect nearby spectators or annoy people who are actually not close to the shooting but whom experience the sound due to the geographic features channel the sound of shots.
valcik
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
True that. Even Slovakian mass murderer Mr. Harman has been wearing the ear protection during his killing spree. Safety first!
Besides of the eventually damaged hearing, too loud shots could make you temporarily confused and less accurate while aiming. ^^
Last edited:
Thanks for the info...
UniversalWolf
eaten by a grue.
Here's a pretty good article about suppressors from a 2011 edition of American Rifleman:
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/suppressors-for-hearing-and-shooting-sports/
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/suppressors-for-hearing-and-shooting-sports/
RetroAmerica
It Wandered In From the Wastes
It may just be me, but I always hate it when I see a thread that says "guns" and then decides to discuss small arms rather than gunnery(both land based and naval).
Just more a nitpick than anything else, but the thread should be Small Arms and Ammo, unless of course we're going to start discussing the merits of actual gunnery.
Just more a nitpick than anything else, but the thread should be Small Arms and Ammo, unless of course we're going to start discussing the merits of actual gunnery.
I've been guilty of the great board sin of multiple postings numerous times, so I am going to put my best effort into a giant multi-quote post this time. Here goes:
The purpose of a silencer/suppressor/can is to reduce or obscure sound signature at the muzzle. Since the user is usually behind the muzzle, it doesn't do as much for their experience as it would if they were in front of it. But generally, it is a bad idea to be in front of it. I am not a ninja/assassin/operator, so I will do my best to tell you what it does from my experience. On a pistol, adding a silencer adds mass and changes the center of gravity of the pistol. As a result, you get less muzzle rise or recoil, making follow-up shots faster. The trade-off with a pistol can is two-fold; the can obscures the sights, requiring a different shooting technique than for a non-suppressed pistol. As you shoot, the can also gets really hot, heating the air around it. The result is a hazy mirage, much as you would see coming off of a highway or an asphalt parking lot on a hot summer day. You can't holster a silenced pistol, or perhaps more accurately, you shouldn't, as the added length would be unweildy on the draw and running around, and reholstering a hot silencer would probably result in melted Kydex and third degree burns on your thigh. So the net result of what a silencer practically does for me on a pistol is that it looks cool and generates a lot of conversation.
On a rifle, it is a much different story. Rifles in general tend to use more powerful bullets, which can be quite a bit louder than pistol bullets. A silencer does not block the optics, so sighting is less of an issue. The added weight changes the barrel harmonics. You get less muzzle rise and less barrel whip. On a gas operated gun like the AR15, you get more gas pressure and a longer dwell time, resulting in more reliable operation. A silencer does so many real and tangible things on a rifle like the AR-15 that several of my friends will not shoot one without it. So there you go with my real-world analysis of what silencers do for me.
We could talk about the 5"/54s on my last surface vessel, or NGFS 99 and lobbing shells into Vieques, but in reality, a.) that would likely be a boring and esoteric conversation for everyone but us, and b.) in all real combat operations I was a part of, it was SM2s and Tomahawks that did the work for us; our guns never fired a shot.
*************************************************************************************************
And on to the next topic. I know that what I type next may come off as either a problem people would like to have or me being an arrogant and condescending jerk, but since it was gun related, I figure I'd post it anyways. This was supposed to be a bunch of pictures of my range day today, but as I left my camera at home, it's really more of an after-action report.
My wife has a best friend who's husband recently purchased an AR-15. When our country bans or restricts a thing that was previously unrestricted, there is usually a clause which exempts things that were owned legally prior to the law coming into effect. As a consequence, whenever there is a hint that a firearm or magazine may be banned or restricted, many people decide to get one before the option is taken off the table. Due to the tumultuous politics on both the state and national level over the last couple of years, in combination with high profile mass shootings, there has been a lot of talk about bans, which has had the curious effect of vastly promoting gun sales amongst the middle class in this country. This mass-influx of people with limited physical or cultural experience with firearms will be pertinent in a few minutes, but for now, it is what has driven my wife's friend's spouse and many of his IT and Database Administration coworkers into purchasing AR-15s.
Anyways, wife's friend's spouse, heretofore referred to as 'Bob Dylan', invited me to join him and a bunch of his coworkers at a new public range the US Forest Service has built near my house. He also asked me to 'bring something cool'. Bob Dylan is a pretty decent guy, so I thanked him for the invitation and assured him I'd show up. The forecast called for a 20mph cross-wind, of which sight-in would be pointless, and you could more-or less achieve the same effect by just throwing a handful of bullets down range. So I decided to limit my gear to a couple of ARs, some handguns, and some plates. Plates have the benefit of providing auditory feedback, and don't particularly care where you hit them, which makes them ideal on a windy day.
I am the king of stuffing things into a Pelican case:
I have a full-sized IDPA steel that weighs around 65 lbs (30 or so kilos for Sua). I have a nifty holder made out of galvanized pipe for it, but considering the wind and the unknown capabilities of the shooters, I decided something a bit more sacrificial might be in order. So I made a heavy-duty target stand out of some 2x4s and a 3/4" solid steel stake. Packed everything up in the truck and headed out to the grasslands.
(Pipe plate holder
So I arrived to find an assortment of IT specialists and their wives/girlfriends/boyfriends and a couple ARs amongst them. One had a husband with some hunting experience, who had brought his trusty old .30-06. There were a handful of .22lr rifles and a couple of shotguns. One guy brought a crossbow and some 'throwing stars'. This was a pretty different crowd than I normally shoot with. This was a public range, so other people had already arrived and started shooting. One of my party geniuses started walking out with the target on a live/active/hot range. I started screaming for a cold range, which drew attention from my own party, who were not sure what or why I was screaming, and the shooters, who were stunned to find a dude just walking down the range. So I had the privileged of explaining the 'hot' and 'cold' range commands to a group of strangers who were not 100% sure who I was or whether they had to listen to me.
Next, I became a brief source of amusement for my giant wooden target stand.
Several people in the group asked me if I was going to build a house. This was about the point I decided not to put out my IDPA plate, and went with two cardboard targets and my 10" steel gong. I trundled the plate and one of the cardboard targets out to the 50 yard line, and put the other cardboard target at 7 yards. Then I noticed several of my party geniuses fiddling with weapons while I was down range. So then I got to have another fun conversation about how 'cold range' means 'don't touch the rifle', whether or not it is loaded, when there is a guy in front of your muzzle.
Finally, I opened up my cases, and at this point my popularity began to climb. The most fun I had was with the wife/girlfriend/boyfriend group. They were mostly ambivalent at best, outright afraid at worst, of shooting. But I got them on the bags with my scoped AR, which is soft shooting and quiet. At 50 yards, even with a severe crosswind, you could not miss the plate. That made most of them feel like snipers. We moved on to my suppressed 1911. One wife and one boyfriend had never shot a handgun before, but both did admirably and seemed to enjoy it.
When folks started realizing that it was too windy to sight in, suddenly my plate became a lot more popular, and the stand started taking hits. Lots and lots of hits. This is why you never want to shoot a plate at less than 15 yards; the spall from the bullet striking the plate will tear you up. You can see what it did to the stud:
Finally, the genius with the .30-06 made a 'lucky' shot that hit the steel bar dead-on. Went right through the bar, and the force of impact tore out the stud. So the moral of this story is don't get hit with a .30-06.
Somehow, my 7 yard target stand ended up taking not one, but multiple hits to the base, four plus feet below the actual target. All with 9mm or .40 ACP, it appears. None of which penetrated the steel of my cheap imported target stand, so I am impressed by that:
My plate also held up pretty good, considering the abuse it took.
Before:
After:
It will get bondo'd, primed, and painted in the next week or so.
Most of the target stand, except the uprights, ended up being salvageable. It was made of $12 worth of 2x4s, $4 for the steel bar, and $12 for the Kreg Screws that held it together. I was able to salvage all of the Kreg screws.
So to wrap up the day, everyone came home with the same number of holes they arrived with, which marks this event a success. Several people were introduced to firearms for the first time, and seemed to enjoy themselves greatly. I still like Bob Dylan quite a bit, and I would go back out with him, provided one individual doesn't show up again. As I was packing up, several folks came over to thank me for keeping things safe, which was a nice turn-around from the morning. When they saw the abuse my target stand took, two guys asked me for the design so that they could copy it. I had a good chat with the forest ranger overseeing the place, and I'll be back to the facility. It was a very different crowd and a very different experience than those I normally shoot with, and pretty exhausting, but good to have made a few more converts to the firearms community.
And just to end on a picture:
What's the purpose? To improve accuracy? Soften the sound?
The purpose of a silencer/suppressor/can is to reduce or obscure sound signature at the muzzle. Since the user is usually behind the muzzle, it doesn't do as much for their experience as it would if they were in front of it. But generally, it is a bad idea to be in front of it. I am not a ninja/assassin/operator, so I will do my best to tell you what it does from my experience. On a pistol, adding a silencer adds mass and changes the center of gravity of the pistol. As a result, you get less muzzle rise or recoil, making follow-up shots faster. The trade-off with a pistol can is two-fold; the can obscures the sights, requiring a different shooting technique than for a non-suppressed pistol. As you shoot, the can also gets really hot, heating the air around it. The result is a hazy mirage, much as you would see coming off of a highway or an asphalt parking lot on a hot summer day. You can't holster a silenced pistol, or perhaps more accurately, you shouldn't, as the added length would be unweildy on the draw and running around, and reholstering a hot silencer would probably result in melted Kydex and third degree burns on your thigh. So the net result of what a silencer practically does for me on a pistol is that it looks cool and generates a lot of conversation.
On a rifle, it is a much different story. Rifles in general tend to use more powerful bullets, which can be quite a bit louder than pistol bullets. A silencer does not block the optics, so sighting is less of an issue. The added weight changes the barrel harmonics. You get less muzzle rise and less barrel whip. On a gas operated gun like the AR15, you get more gas pressure and a longer dwell time, resulting in more reliable operation. A silencer does so many real and tangible things on a rifle like the AR-15 that several of my friends will not shoot one without it. So there you go with my real-world analysis of what silencers do for me.
We could talk about the 5"/54s on my last surface vessel, or NGFS 99 and lobbing shells into Vieques, but in reality, a.) that would likely be a boring and esoteric conversation for everyone but us, and b.) in all real combat operations I was a part of, it was SM2s and Tomahawks that did the work for us; our guns never fired a shot.
*************************************************************************************************
And on to the next topic. I know that what I type next may come off as either a problem people would like to have or me being an arrogant and condescending jerk, but since it was gun related, I figure I'd post it anyways. This was supposed to be a bunch of pictures of my range day today, but as I left my camera at home, it's really more of an after-action report.
My wife has a best friend who's husband recently purchased an AR-15. When our country bans or restricts a thing that was previously unrestricted, there is usually a clause which exempts things that were owned legally prior to the law coming into effect. As a consequence, whenever there is a hint that a firearm or magazine may be banned or restricted, many people decide to get one before the option is taken off the table. Due to the tumultuous politics on both the state and national level over the last couple of years, in combination with high profile mass shootings, there has been a lot of talk about bans, which has had the curious effect of vastly promoting gun sales amongst the middle class in this country. This mass-influx of people with limited physical or cultural experience with firearms will be pertinent in a few minutes, but for now, it is what has driven my wife's friend's spouse and many of his IT and Database Administration coworkers into purchasing AR-15s.
Anyways, wife's friend's spouse, heretofore referred to as 'Bob Dylan', invited me to join him and a bunch of his coworkers at a new public range the US Forest Service has built near my house. He also asked me to 'bring something cool'. Bob Dylan is a pretty decent guy, so I thanked him for the invitation and assured him I'd show up. The forecast called for a 20mph cross-wind, of which sight-in would be pointless, and you could more-or less achieve the same effect by just throwing a handful of bullets down range. So I decided to limit my gear to a couple of ARs, some handguns, and some plates. Plates have the benefit of providing auditory feedback, and don't particularly care where you hit them, which makes them ideal on a windy day.
I am the king of stuffing things into a Pelican case:
I have a full-sized IDPA steel that weighs around 65 lbs (30 or so kilos for Sua). I have a nifty holder made out of galvanized pipe for it, but considering the wind and the unknown capabilities of the shooters, I decided something a bit more sacrificial might be in order. So I made a heavy-duty target stand out of some 2x4s and a 3/4" solid steel stake. Packed everything up in the truck and headed out to the grasslands.
(Pipe plate holder
So I arrived to find an assortment of IT specialists and their wives/girlfriends/boyfriends and a couple ARs amongst them. One had a husband with some hunting experience, who had brought his trusty old .30-06. There were a handful of .22lr rifles and a couple of shotguns. One guy brought a crossbow and some 'throwing stars'. This was a pretty different crowd than I normally shoot with. This was a public range, so other people had already arrived and started shooting. One of my party geniuses started walking out with the target on a live/active/hot range. I started screaming for a cold range, which drew attention from my own party, who were not sure what or why I was screaming, and the shooters, who were stunned to find a dude just walking down the range. So I had the privileged of explaining the 'hot' and 'cold' range commands to a group of strangers who were not 100% sure who I was or whether they had to listen to me.
Next, I became a brief source of amusement for my giant wooden target stand.
Several people in the group asked me if I was going to build a house. This was about the point I decided not to put out my IDPA plate, and went with two cardboard targets and my 10" steel gong. I trundled the plate and one of the cardboard targets out to the 50 yard line, and put the other cardboard target at 7 yards. Then I noticed several of my party geniuses fiddling with weapons while I was down range. So then I got to have another fun conversation about how 'cold range' means 'don't touch the rifle', whether or not it is loaded, when there is a guy in front of your muzzle.
Finally, I opened up my cases, and at this point my popularity began to climb. The most fun I had was with the wife/girlfriend/boyfriend group. They were mostly ambivalent at best, outright afraid at worst, of shooting. But I got them on the bags with my scoped AR, which is soft shooting and quiet. At 50 yards, even with a severe crosswind, you could not miss the plate. That made most of them feel like snipers. We moved on to my suppressed 1911. One wife and one boyfriend had never shot a handgun before, but both did admirably and seemed to enjoy it.
When folks started realizing that it was too windy to sight in, suddenly my plate became a lot more popular, and the stand started taking hits. Lots and lots of hits. This is why you never want to shoot a plate at less than 15 yards; the spall from the bullet striking the plate will tear you up. You can see what it did to the stud:
Finally, the genius with the .30-06 made a 'lucky' shot that hit the steel bar dead-on. Went right through the bar, and the force of impact tore out the stud. So the moral of this story is don't get hit with a .30-06.
Somehow, my 7 yard target stand ended up taking not one, but multiple hits to the base, four plus feet below the actual target. All with 9mm or .40 ACP, it appears. None of which penetrated the steel of my cheap imported target stand, so I am impressed by that:
My plate also held up pretty good, considering the abuse it took.
Before:
After:
It will get bondo'd, primed, and painted in the next week or so.
Most of the target stand, except the uprights, ended up being salvageable. It was made of $12 worth of 2x4s, $4 for the steel bar, and $12 for the Kreg Screws that held it together. I was able to salvage all of the Kreg screws.
So to wrap up the day, everyone came home with the same number of holes they arrived with, which marks this event a success. Several people were introduced to firearms for the first time, and seemed to enjoy themselves greatly. I still like Bob Dylan quite a bit, and I would go back out with him, provided one individual doesn't show up again. As I was packing up, several folks came over to thank me for keeping things safe, which was a nice turn-around from the morning. When they saw the abuse my target stand took, two guys asked me for the design so that they could copy it. I had a good chat with the forest ranger overseeing the place, and I'll be back to the facility. It was a very different crowd and a very different experience than those I normally shoot with, and pretty exhausting, but good to have made a few more converts to the firearms community.
And just to end on a picture:
Last edited:
Heh cool. Thanks for sharing.
UniversalWolf
eaten by a grue.
Yeah, good story.
Hopefully some learnin' took place.
Hopefully some learnin' took place.
A lot of guys like yourself would've turned around the moment they say the type of people present. Not because they're jerks, but simply because their gear is not exactly cheap and you always take a chance with having such people around your stuff.
Nice to hear that you took it in stride and turned it around to make it an educational and fun afternoon.
I've also taken to giving shooting introduction classes and taking novice shooters under my wings in the past few years. But that is in a much more regulated environment...
Advantages:
- Lowers sound output. With some weapons to hearing-safe levels. Usually it's not enough though & you still need some hearing protection.
- Diminishes side & backblast. Meaning people next to you don't get hit with a wave of pressure when you're shooting a rifle with muzzle device.
- Makes it harder to pinpoint the origin of the shot. Obviously mostly for military purposes, but while it does not "silence" your shot, it becomes a lot harder to pinpoint where the shot came from.
- Reduces recoil.
- With selected ammo, you can sometimes tighten your groups, but increased accuracy is not guaranteed.
- Lack of strong blast decreases the chance of "flinching", also improving shooter accuracy.
Disadvantages:
- Cost. Suppressors are fairly simple devices, but the 200 USD tax stamp required for ownership and rather exclusive nature means that prices are high.
- Backblast inside the weapon. The suppressor causes more backpressure inside the gun, which causes some gun designs to kick back more gas & debris towards the user. WEAR GLASSES!
- More weight at the front of your gun.
- Suppressors often require maintenance. The nature of the maintenance depends on the type of suppressor.
- Sight can sometimes be obscured by the thick suppressor.
- HOT HOT HOT. Do not touch after firing.
Nice to hear that you took it in stride and turned it around to make it an educational and fun afternoon.
I've also taken to giving shooting introduction classes and taking novice shooters under my wings in the past few years. But that is in a much more regulated environment...
As an addition/TLDR to Johnny's post:What's the purpose? To improve accuracy? Soften the sound?
Advantages:
- Lowers sound output. With some weapons to hearing-safe levels. Usually it's not enough though & you still need some hearing protection.
- Diminishes side & backblast. Meaning people next to you don't get hit with a wave of pressure when you're shooting a rifle with muzzle device.
- Makes it harder to pinpoint the origin of the shot. Obviously mostly for military purposes, but while it does not "silence" your shot, it becomes a lot harder to pinpoint where the shot came from.
- Reduces recoil.
- With selected ammo, you can sometimes tighten your groups, but increased accuracy is not guaranteed.
- Lack of strong blast decreases the chance of "flinching", also improving shooter accuracy.
Disadvantages:
- Cost. Suppressors are fairly simple devices, but the 200 USD tax stamp required for ownership and rather exclusive nature means that prices are high.
- Backblast inside the weapon. The suppressor causes more backpressure inside the gun, which causes some gun designs to kick back more gas & debris towards the user. WEAR GLASSES!
- More weight at the front of your gun.
- Suppressors often require maintenance. The nature of the maintenance depends on the type of suppressor.
- Sight can sometimes be obscured by the thick suppressor.
- HOT HOT HOT. Do not touch after firing.
Whole bunch of stamps came in:
The newest SBR lowers:
1. Finally got a Noveske lower as host for my shorty Noveske upper.
2. LMT MRP 10.5
3. All Bravo 12.5 Kino
4. Dedicated 9mm. Not sure what stock is going on it yet.
I've got a lot of EOTechs to buy in the near future.
M110 can finally approved:
Integrally suppressed 77/44 approved:
So a good gun-centric day in the Ego household!
The newest SBR lowers:
1. Finally got a Noveske lower as host for my shorty Noveske upper.
2. LMT MRP 10.5
3. All Bravo 12.5 Kino
4. Dedicated 9mm. Not sure what stock is going on it yet.
I've got a lot of EOTechs to buy in the near future.
M110 can finally approved:
Integrally suppressed 77/44 approved:
So a good gun-centric day in the Ego household!
Almost too pretty to shoot, Johnny.
The Ruger 77/44 is pretty unknown here in Europe. Never heard about it. Sounds like an interesting lil' gun. A bit of an updated DeLisle with a bit of extra punch in your case. If you download the .44Mag to a weak .44Spl or so, you'll probably get a damn quiet lil' gun that still packs a punch.
What are you going to do with it? Gophercaust?
I've been mulling over splurging on an AI AT lately (when they get around to make a batch of lefty guns). A lot of money, but a lot of gun too.
The Ruger 77/44 is pretty unknown here in Europe. Never heard about it. Sounds like an interesting lil' gun. A bit of an updated DeLisle with a bit of extra punch in your case. If you download the .44Mag to a weak .44Spl or so, you'll probably get a damn quiet lil' gun that still packs a punch.
What are you going to do with it? Gophercaust?
I've been mulling over splurging on an AI AT lately (when they get around to make a batch of lefty guns). A lot of money, but a lot of gun too.
cronicler
Lurksalot
Pixote, here is a video from Hitckok45 that has both the unsuppressed and suppressed shooting with the same gun. The volume correction (and the youtube compression) does soften the unsuppressed shots but you can still feel the difference between them. Also you can see the way the gun "smokes" with the suppressor on due to gas blowback from the can.
http://youtu.be/sYHMqqg9zSI
http://youtu.be/sYHMqqg9zSI
@Sua: I bought the 77/44 with the intention of feral pig and coyote control. Feral pigs are very smart, and can figure out pretty quickly where you are when you are shooting at them and their little piggy friends. My hope is that this will give me a little more opportunity to thin the herd before they figure out where I am and head off into the underbrush. I put a Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x on it, which gives me plenty of magnification for the range I am shooting at, with the ability to put it on 1x and acquire very fast if I come up on a boar unexpectedly. Those things are vicious. The AI AT is an awesome gun. I was looking at one available to me locally in .300 WSM, priced at $6600 USD. By the time I put the appropriate scope on it, I'd be looking at $10K, which was more than I had left in my firearms budget for the year, so I walked. Perhaps next year...
I did recently pick up a Bravo USA KMR Lightweight Carbine, which is ridiculously light for a 16" barrelled AR.
It is a 14.5" barrel with a pinned Surefire brake, and the Bravo Keymod Rail. The upper receiver assembly is ridiculously light weight; the gun weighs several ounces less than my Bravo 12.5 upper with Centurion rail.
The idea behind the KeyMod upper is that you bolt your stuff directly to the rail. It's sort of the opposite concept of picatinny; you need a torx driver and some patience to move anything, but once you do, it's not going anywhere. So no quick changes of mind on equipment and configuration, but also less risk of parts falling off. The keymod is the hip new thing in ARs, and I like the concept well enough, but this is likely to be my only rifle with it for a while, as I tend to move equipment between guns a lot depending on the type of shooting I will be doing.
I stuck a Surefire Scout light in a Noveske KMR mount on the end of it. I have an SR05 activation switch for it somewhere in my gun room.
Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, and won't for a couple months still, so I have no idea how it will shoot. But it is very light, and I don't have to get permission from the ATF to take it out of state, so those things speak in it's favor.
I did recently pick up a Bravo USA KMR Lightweight Carbine, which is ridiculously light for a 16" barrelled AR.
It is a 14.5" barrel with a pinned Surefire brake, and the Bravo Keymod Rail. The upper receiver assembly is ridiculously light weight; the gun weighs several ounces less than my Bravo 12.5 upper with Centurion rail.
The idea behind the KeyMod upper is that you bolt your stuff directly to the rail. It's sort of the opposite concept of picatinny; you need a torx driver and some patience to move anything, but once you do, it's not going anywhere. So no quick changes of mind on equipment and configuration, but also less risk of parts falling off. The keymod is the hip new thing in ARs, and I like the concept well enough, but this is likely to be my only rifle with it for a while, as I tend to move equipment between guns a lot depending on the type of shooting I will be doing.
I stuck a Surefire Scout light in a Noveske KMR mount on the end of it. I have an SR05 activation switch for it somewhere in my gun room.
Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, and won't for a couple months still, so I have no idea how it will shoot. But it is very light, and I don't have to get permission from the ATF to take it out of state, so those things speak in it's favor.
At that price range, I think you're thinking of the AI AX, not the cheaper AT. It's positioned between the old AW and the discontinued AE. It shouldn't be more than 3600 USD bone stock.
Pretty much has all the advantages of an AW (and more) packed into a package that's about 500 USD more expensive than the old AE.
donperkan
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
pic please of 77/44 with Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x on it
Sponsored by:
American Defense Tacticool
American Defense Tacticool
I've been looking at getting a second firearm after my FNP-9. I definitely wanted a rifle, but getting anything decent there seems to require north of a grand, and the cost of 5.56 ammo on top makes me even more hesitant (much as I loved shooting my co-worker's AR the couple times I've gone to the range with him). At this point, I'm just not going to be able to come up with that sort of dough.
So, I started looking at pistol-caliber carbines, specifically 9mm since that seems a logical companion to a 9mm handgun. Eventually I came upon what seems to be a well-known and very cheap option: the Hi-Point 995. I'm curious if anyone here has any opinions on it or experience with it. I'm also curious if anyone (Johnny?) might know any good sources for getting them with a bullet button so it's CA-legal. There also seems to be something of a market available for mods for it -- I'm specifically looking at a modified charging handle (since the one that comes with it seems to be a hex-head bolt) and a muzzle-brake/compensator (do those really do much on this sort of gun or will it mostly be cosmetic)? Also, any opinions on a scope or red-dot sight versus sticking with the irons?
So, I started looking at pistol-caliber carbines, specifically 9mm since that seems a logical companion to a 9mm handgun. Eventually I came upon what seems to be a well-known and very cheap option: the Hi-Point 995. I'm curious if anyone here has any opinions on it or experience with it. I'm also curious if anyone (Johnny?) might know any good sources for getting them with a bullet button so it's CA-legal. There also seems to be something of a market available for mods for it -- I'm specifically looking at a modified charging handle (since the one that comes with it seems to be a hex-head bolt) and a muzzle-brake/compensator (do those really do much on this sort of gun or will it mostly be cosmetic)? Also, any opinions on a scope or red-dot sight versus sticking with the irons?
Last edited:
I am afraid I don't know much about the Highpoint. A good place to look for how to make a rifle CA legal is Calguns.net. Those guys are the experts at building what they want while staying in compliance with California law.
In generic terms, a brake isn't going to do very much for a 16" barrel in 9mm. The caliber just doesn't have enough oomph to produce significant recoil in a rifle of that size, and there isn't going to be a ton of gas at the brake to do anything for whatever recoil is present. So a muzzle brake on a 9mm carbine is mostly going to be cosmetic. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it, just that it isn't likely to produce a lot of practical effect.
As to sights, the older I get, the more I appreciate red dots. There are also some really good options at lower price-points these days. A 9mm carbine is not going to be brutal on a red dot sight, so while you don't want to get something on the bottom tier, you can find something that will work well without spending a lot of cash. You might want to look at the Burris Fast Fire, which is very compact, has good battery life, and an excellent field of view.
Good luck, and let us know what you come up with.
In generic terms, a brake isn't going to do very much for a 16" barrel in 9mm. The caliber just doesn't have enough oomph to produce significant recoil in a rifle of that size, and there isn't going to be a ton of gas at the brake to do anything for whatever recoil is present. So a muzzle brake on a 9mm carbine is mostly going to be cosmetic. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it, just that it isn't likely to produce a lot of practical effect.
As to sights, the older I get, the more I appreciate red dots. There are also some really good options at lower price-points these days. A 9mm carbine is not going to be brutal on a red dot sight, so while you don't want to get something on the bottom tier, you can find something that will work well without spending a lot of cash. You might want to look at the Burris Fast Fire, which is very compact, has good battery life, and an excellent field of view.
Good luck, and let us know what you come up with.