The Guns and Ammo Thread

you cant have a local gunsmith work on it without loosing the garantee and you have to send it off to HK for fixing. this will take anything from 6 months to a few years.
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I dunno about HK but with berretta they supply you with a substitute weapon if your weapon has an errors. And in worst cases like with my brother(Weapon had a habit of fireing on its own, Bad ultralight shotgun), they will just replace the weapon.

If error continues then they will give you a different weapontype. my brother switched from berretta ultralight to and ordinary silver pigeon. Waiting times were never a problem.
 
Beretta aint HK, Loxley. for HK the civilian market is not important at all & they simply don't care about their customers.
 
erm Damitboy HK make the SA80 and it is the worst Battle rifle in the world, Jams at the drop of a hat and it doesn't like American ammo even though it was designed to take the same mag as the M16 and use the same ammo (not calibre but the powder loads).

When I was in IRAQ I liked the SLR because it was more accurate and also jammed a hell of alot less than the SA80, and I used my SLR as a BASIC sniper weapons system (the SLR EM12 variant) when I was in combat it never Failed on me and I love it.

Oh and Damnitboy please post some pic's of your refurbishment I have some nice pic's of a SMLE am working on and I am thinking of posting a few pic's when I get better.
 
HK didn't "make" them, they just removed some of the suck out of them. Stupid Brits, they should have just bought the G36 and be done with it.
 
Muff said:
Nope made by HK sorry.
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Nope you are wrong...

The fucked up LA85A1 was manufactured by the Royal Small Arms Factory in Enfield... that factory is now closed.

HK:

"In 1997 the SA80 was dropped from NATO's list of approved weapons. To all intents and purposes this was a vote of no confidence in the weapon. Soon afterwards an SA80 upgrade programme commenced. In 2000 Heckler & Koch, at that time owned by Royal Ordnance, were contracted to fix the problems. Two hundred thousand SA80s were remanufactured at a cost of £400 each, producing the A2 variant of the weapon. By 2002 the upgraded versions were deployed in first line formations; however, the A1 version remains in use for familiarisation purposes during basic training. The upgrade involved replacement of many internal parts and has vastly increased reliability, to the point of making it one of the most reliable of bullpup configuration weapons"

(Pengelley, Rupert (November 2002). British forces do battle with rifle maintenance mythology. Jane's International Defence Review)

Well you can fix a bad design only to a certain point...

And stop bashing HK 8)

Where did you get the idea that they don't care about the civilian sector? The owner of the Berretta company stated that you can't make any real profits as a small arms dealer anymore if you specialize on government weapons only...

----------------------------------------

BUY GERMAN!
 
erm nope the SA80 has the HK makers mark and although some mk1s where modified to the new pattern they where the LSW pattern. FOR fucks sake the British army still use the Bren gun but under the name of the LMG.


The standard SA80A1 is good when it is issued to a new trooper but when u use it in a combat situation the fucker jams and costs a life.
 
I want one of these too:

LeMatpistol1864.jpg


Le Mat Model 1864, nine shot .44 caliber cylinder revolving around a 20 gauge shot barrel. But I'd rather have one that fires some manner of currently manufactured cartridge ammunition instead of cap and ball. Maybe I should invent one...
 
Muff said:
the fucker jams and costs a life.
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Guns are made to do just that. Cost people their lives. :wink:

Anyway, maybe the jams are due to the bullpup design? It's also rumored it's due to the manual labor once involved in the making process. I heard now they do it with robotics.

Nobody's bashing HK, it all started when I stated that I don't like their designs, and that's just a damn opinion.
 
Muff said:
erm nope the SA80 has the HK makers mark and although some mk1s where modified to the new pattern they where the LSW pattern. FOR fucks sake the British army still use the Bren gun but under the name of the LMG.


The standard SA80A1 is good when it is issued to a new trooper but when u use it in a combat situation the fucker jams and costs a life.
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HK never made this crappy British rifle, they were commisioned to try and fix a turd. The SA80's that were refurbished by HK would have their mark stamped on them.

While HK did a pretty good job of polishing that turd, it's still a British turd.

Try doing a google search to reduce the amount of tard in your future posts on this subject. :wink:

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Sua - Is this personal experience on your part with HK or something you heard about from some one else? Your comments go against everything I know and everything I've ever heard or read about HK.
 
DoughboyJones said:
I want one of these too:

LeMatpistol1864.jpg


Le Mat Model 1864, nine shot .44 caliber cylinder revolving around a 20 gauge shot barrel. But I'd rather have one that fires some manner of currently manufactured cartridge ammunition instead of cap and ball. Maybe I should invent one...
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You can buy a very well made replica of the LeMat produced by F.lli Pietta, an Italian replica firearms company. Check the link below.

http://www.pietta.it/index_2.htm

(click on the muzzleloading link on the left side of the page)

They don't make a cartridge version, sorry, although I have read that some LeMat's were converted to fire paper cartridges after the civil war...
 
Smoke_Jaguar said:
The FN-FAL got a lot of good press, even portrayed in games like JA2 as one of the best assault rifles in the game (dam 35 IIRC).
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Ah, you've played it too? Well ok, still have to get used to posting in a Fallout community - it isn't the Arcade hall or something here (/me ducks for cover) ^_^

That was one hell of a game, too bad UB didn't quite catch the JA2 "feel"...

And indeed, I saw it being portrayed there as one of the "superb rifles/carabines these days", and wondered why I heard quite some Army bad rep about it.

Maybe my dad was just lousy at maintaining his rifle... Never talked about guns much with him. Too bad I lost my uncle, he had a firing range - could put 9 bullets in the same hole (don't know what calibre, and it was quite some range - was too young to remember). I could have learnt a lot from him...
 
Muff said:
When I was in IRAQ I liked the SLR because it was more accurate and also jammed a hell of alot less than the SA80, and I used my SLR as a BASIC sniper weapons system (the SLR EM12 variant) when I was in combat it never Failed on me and I love it.
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i take it it's an SLR with the desert condition upgrade? because, without the upgrade, the gun doesn't exactly have too good a reputation with fine sand.

DirtyDreamDesigner said:
HK didn't "make" them, they just removed some of the suck out of them. Stupid Brits, they should have just bought the G36 and be done with it.
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they TRIED to remove some of the suck. they got some stuff right, but botched a few objectives as well.


DoughboyJones said:
I want one of these too:

LeMatpistol1864.jpg


Le Mat Model 1864, nine shot .44 caliber cylinder revolving around a 20 gauge shot barrel. But I'd rather have one that fires some manner of currently manufactured cartridge ammunition instead of cap and ball. Maybe I should invent one...
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how freaking odd... only a few days ago a friend of mine told me he wanted one after showing me what it was.

is there a LeMat bug crawling around somewhere?

Smoke_Jaguar said:
Anyway, maybe the jams are due to the bullpup design? It's also rumored it's due to the manual labor once involved in the making process. I heard now they do it with robotics.
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euhm. you do realise that 'bullpup-design' an sich can't cause jams?

bullpup simply means you move the trigger in front of the action, nothing else. as such, it can't cause jams, since it doesn't change any significant architecture...

DammitBoy said:
Sua - Is this personal experience on your part with HK or something you heard about from some one else? Your comments go against everything I know and everything I've ever heard or read about HK.
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a friend of mine owned 2 USP's. his Expert got fubared & he had to send it in. they first lost the weapon somewhere, it took months to locate. then it took months again to fix. once 'fixed', they sent it back. a month later, the weapon failed again (the exact same part, it appears they just jerry-rigged the whole thing instead of swapping with a new part). he sent it in again & cost months before he had it back. in the end, he sold both his USP's and bought a springfield and a glock.

boer_kameel said:
And indeed, I saw it being portrayed there as one of the "superb rifles/carabines these days", and wondered why I heard quite some Army bad rep about it.
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in the belgian army? that's BS tbh.

they didn't call that weapon the Right Arm of the Free World for nothing.
 
5yu0rqs.jpg

I hate to break up the discussion but some months ago I said my words bout what I'm packin and this is it. It's old 1890.
Checked the serial number on it and it's under 32,000.
L.C. Smith 12. gauge. Better picture to come when the digital camera is working again.
 
I have a non firing, movie prop version of the le mat. Cool as it is however, I would really like one that I can use to blow things apart. Only problem is that $800+(US) price tag.
 
I am puzzled by this discussion of AK (reliability) vs HK (accuracy) as assault weapons.

It seems the AK was built to be cheap and simple, reliable in bad environments and capable of a spray and pray method- you shoot a lot of bullets and hope that it maims your enemy.

HK, and western emphasis on accuracy would emphasize actually hitting a target, allowing for greater discrimination between enemy and civilian combatants.

So by saying the AK is a better weapon if more inaccurate, are you basically saying that civilian causalities are not important?
 
welsh said:
I am puzzled by this discussion of AK (reliability) vs HK (accuracy) as assault weapons.

It seems the AK was built to be cheap and simple, reliable in bad environments and capable of a spray and pray method- you shoot a lot of bullets and hope that it maims your enemy.

HK, and western emphasis on accuracy would emphasize actually hitting a target, allowing for greater discrimination between enemy and civilian combatants.

So by saying the AK is a better weapon if more inaccurate, are you basically saying that civilian causalities are not important?
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Hmm I would say what you said is mostly wrong!

The AK was build after the experiences of WW2... The russians did most of the job agains Nazi Germany. All the specs (?) of the AK originated from that experience that a weapon should be es easy to maintain, operate as possible and that it should be reliable under any circumstances...

Besides the AK isn*t that inaccurate as most of us in the west like to portray it! It is decently accurate, it does the Job which it is suppose to do, which isn*t Spray and Pray.

I would agree that the AK is the better weapon for a full scale war. This is what it was designed for. It wasn*t designed as a SWAT oder SpecOps weapon so I wouldn*t use it for that! :wink:
 
I think it is more a question of what you are looking for in your weapon. As a firearms owner I know that there is little that can be more annoying, or pottentially frightening than an error in your weapon. In a battlezone I belive it is more so. If that is something you are afraid of then AK is the way to go.

Lets take an example. My mothers uncle were long ago with my a crew taking pictures of polarbears in svalbard Norway. Suddenly the bear started charging at them. My uncle threw the rifle to his shoulder aimed and it jammed. He had to take a new loadinggrip before he could shoot the bear. Apperantly it was very close before he got the shot of and the bear fell over.

It was not very fun for my uncle to take that last loadinggrip on the weapon knowing that if the weapon erred again he would most likely die. The AK gives a reliable weapon that most people can use in battle for a long time. And that means alot. I am very certain it means alot to those people that are going to combat situations where a jam in your weapon can mean the difference between life and death.

And remember it was a wepon made in soviet russian so that the soviet bearcavalery would have a decent wepon to supplement their soviet grade steel sabers. Civilians were not an issue.
 
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