The Guns and Ammo Thread

[Smoke_Jaguar]

I am puzzled by this discussion of AK (reliability) vs HK (accuracy) as assault weapons.

It seems the AK was built to be cheap and simple, reliable in bad environments and capable of a spray and pray method- you shoot a lot of bullets and hope that it maims your enemy.

HK, and western emphasis on accuracy would emphasize actually hitting a target, allowing for greater discrimination between enemy and civilian combatants.

So by saying the AK is a better weapon if more inaccurate, are you basically saying that civilian causalities are not important?

Mentioning just the word "AK" is confusing. I get the impression you're talking about the AK-47, versus the entire arsenal of Heckler & Koch.

That's hardly fair. The "AK" is not simply a gun, it's a weapon platform. It's designed not to be cheap or simple, but to be modern and reliable. It didn't first appear in 2000, you know. It was pretty expensive in 1949 when it was excepted as the standard rifle of the Soviet army.

I doubt you will find an HK rifle used by a great power in those days.

To this day between 30 and 50 million copies and variations of the AK-47 have been produced world wide, making it the most widely used rifle in the world.

But the point is that the AK is a weapon platform. There are dozens of countries and big time gun producing firms that made versions of it. It was never cheap, it's just that other companies began making very expensive products, and the AK's price remained the same.

And regarding accuracy, well most HK rifles are scoped or at least that's what people use (like the 33) and other weapons like the UMP or the MP5 are CQB weapons. The AK's problem is that there are few accessories regarding sights, and that it doesn't have a big time manufacturer.

We were considering assault rifles, anyway.

 

[DammitBoy]

I hate to break up the discussion but some months ago I said my words bout what I'm packin and this is it. It's old 1890.
Checked the serial number on it and it's under 32,000.
L.C. Smith 12. gauge. Better picture to come when the digital camera is working again.

An LC Smith is agreat shotgun - prices range from 400-5000 dollars depending on condition of the gun.

If you don't know the value of your shotgun, have a gunsmith check it out for you. You wouldn't want to ding up a rare valuable gun...

 

[I_eat_supermutants]

Well the last appraisal value of it was in the $8000's range. (wich sounds like a load of BS to me)
And it's still in good shape. I am suppose to be taking to a trusted gunsmith sometime in june, just to check it out.
I will have a better picture of it someday soon.

 

[SuAside]

I'm currently in the running for this baby (sadly there are a few others in the running as well):
a FAL in the english L1A1 configuration with wooden furniture

does this look familiar to any of you FO junkies? hehe

capable of a spray and pray method- you shoot a lot of bullets and hope that it maims your enemy.

assault rifles aren't really built for pure spray & pray, they're built for suppressive fire. which is a whole different objective than spray and pray, although it might look the same to a novice.

Well the last appraisal value of it was in the $8000's range. (wich sounds like a load of BS to me)
And it's still in good shape. I am suppose to be taking to a trusted gunsmith sometime in june, just to check it out.
I will have a better picture of it someday soon.

be sure not to shoot any steelshot until then... many old shotties are made for lead, not steel. (lead deforms easier and hence doesn't need as strong a metal barrel. if you shoot steel in a leadshot barrel, you'll fubar your barrel fast)

 

[Tagaziel]

assault rifles aren't really built for pure spray & pray, they're built for suppressive fire.

Aren't they actually made for accurate medium distance fire?

 

[SuAside]

Aren't they actually made for accurate medium distance fire?

even with medium powered ammo, you can't go full auto at medium range without loosing accurate aim. 2 to 3 round bursts: yes; full auto: no way.

the only times you use full auto fire is at close range for a kind of moderately controlled spray and pray, at medium range for suppressive fire and at long range to make your force appear superior (think of the SEAL line fire retreat).

so, once you're past close range targets, you need to aim and burst, never full auto.

(with assault rifles that is, ofc)

 

[Vicious_Squid]

The stock on the M4gery was replaced by the Magpul CTR. Everything else is the same. Maybe a light with an offset mount?

 

[Vicious_Squid]

Aren't they actually made for accurate medium distance fire?

even with medium powered ammo, you can't go full auto at medium range without loosing accurate aim. 2 to 3 round bursts: yes; full auto: no way.

the only times you use full auto fire is at close range for a kind of moderately controlled spray and pray, at medium range for suppressive fire and at long range to make your force appear superior (think of the SEAL line fire retreat).

so, once you're past close range targets, you need to aim and burst, never full auto.

(with assault rifles that is, ofc)

Yes, I would not see any point in full auto (or burst for that matter, burst is pointless IMHO) for anything past 75-100m unless you are laying down cover fire. 3r burst also totally fucks up your trigger work.

Edit: ^ Meaning assault rifles, not belt-feds.

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

Pump shotguns are for suckers...

hehe, nice weapons though

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Vicious_Squid, don't double post.

 

[PhredBean]

Shorter barreled 870 if I'm not mistaken, with a pistol grip and a m4 stock.

It's my opinion that every man should own a Remington870 or Mossburg500 or 590 at least, since both are very good shotguns for the money.

In either case though, I'll keep my full length one and standard grip and stock as I mostly use mine for traps and fowl. I've never been much of a fan of pistol gripped shotguns, it doesn't feel right.

 

[SuAside]

why a tubefed pump PhredBean? might as well get a Saiga 12 or a Molot Vepr 12, if you're not cycling low recoil crap or less than lethal rounds.

but yeah, R870 and M500/590 are good shotties.

 

[Vicious_Squid]

Sorry, no double posting.

And sorry about the crappy pics, I am the n00biest of the n00b when it comes to photography of any kind and I apologize for the rather shoddy lighting, ect. Thank you for your comments.

Yes, the stock/grip I got on my 870 feels somewhat unbalanced, I am thinking of making it look like this:

Side note: This is not my firearm and I do not own this image, I googled it just to show you what I would like to do to mine.

Calvary Arms SST-870 kit, or the Mesa Tactical kit. This is the Cav Arms one, I believe pictured above as well:

 

[DoughboyJones]

I want one of these too, especially if I could get one in .308 or 7.62 NATO for you metrics.

I like the martini series too, but a hundred bucks for a box of 20 cartridges is waaay too steep for a poor folk like myself.

 

[Vicious_Squid]

I want one of these:

Rifle: $2500-3000
Optic: $950-1100
Rings: $100-125
Bipod and adapter: $100
Suppressor: Around $1000 + $200 transfer tax
Extra mags: $50-100
Ammo:

 

[DoughboyJones]

Right here baby, If only I could find one...anyone have any insight as to the whereabouts of one of these majestic firearms?

 

[DoughboyJones]

Ok, I did a little investigating on my own and found a nifty kit for sale, unfortunately it's 400 buckeroos. now accepting donations...

http://www.tennesseevalleymanufacturing.com/catalog.php?category=all

It's not quite halfway down the page.

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Godamnit, Doughboy, I just warned Vicious_Squid about double posting and now you do it.

How hard is to follow a simple rule: no double posting!

 

[Vicious_Squid]

 

[PhredBean]

Whoever that is, he's a goddamned idiot.

Doubly so if that's loaded. At least he doesn't have his finger on the trigger.