The Guns and Ammo Thread

[SuAside]

Here in America, the land of the free and the home of the brave - we can buy whatever we want.

Alsoplustoo, the full jacket ammo is available here aftermarket-wise.

my post was also about ze US of A ofc, if that wasn't clear.

How is $750-825 U.S. dollars 'high' priced?

indeed, it's not. (but then again, you can buy AKs or Saigas for 200$ in the USA, so maybe 750$ is a lot for Welshy in comparison. ofc, all other pistols in the same quality class are equally expensive, if not more.)

http://fivesevenforum.com/ is a good resource btw, but you need to register to check it out.

 

[welsh]

I stand corrected. I had thought the FN FiveseveN was more expensive. I thought it was a few years back.

Personally, while I don't mind firearms, a gun that can allow some asshole dealer to put a bullet through the body armor of a cop needs to be reconsidered. Considering the number of fatalities related to drug dealing, I think making it easier to kill cops will only make life for most people worse. Besides, how many armor plated deer or bear are you likely to meet.

 

[SuAside]

actually, the casualties of firearms (legal AND criminal) are far inferior to tobacco or alcohol.

and for your drugdealer buddy: he aint going to buy a legal firearm, Welsh.

besides, for most soft armor (which is what cops usually wear everywhere except ze Ghetto), all he needs is a CZ52 with 7.62x25mm TT. poof, straight through. same with your drugdealer getting him one of those 5.56mm semi automatic "pistols" with 30 round magazines i mentioned earlier.

if a criminal wants an armorpiercing gun, he has plenty to choose from and i can assure you that in 99.9% of the cases, it wont be coming from a legit armsdealer...

 

[welsh]

actually, the casualties of firearms (legal AND criminal) are far inferior to tobacco or alcohol.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

and for your drugdealer buddy: he aint going to buy a legal firearm, Welsh.

Nope, he's most likely to get his gun from a dealer whose gone to a different state and uses straw purchasers to buy a lot of legitimate legal guns in shops from pro-gun states. The straw purchaser then he goes home and he sells the guns on the street. The dealer pockets the money and smiles, thinking "hey what do I care if some niggas get killed."

And while most people probably won't shed a tear for a dealer killed on a corner by a rival gang, its when the bullets fly and some poor innocent gets whacked that it all becomes a lot more tragic.

The nice thing about some pistol ammunition is that it might not penetrate walls as well as others. But I would think a bullet designed to go through body armor has remarkable penetration against cheap building construction. A good shooter might not miss, but then if these guys were that disciplined, then we wouldn't have so many bodies to clean up.

besides, for most soft armor (which is what cops usually wear everywhere except ze Ghetto), all he needs is a CZ52 with 7.62x25mm TT. poof, straight through. same with your drugdealer getting him one of those 5.56mm semi automatic "pistols" with 30 round magazines i mentioned earlier.

From what I understand, drug dearlers used to favor the .38 but now favor large magazine capacity handguns. Something with punch but with a large clip.

if a criminal wants an armorpiercing gun, he has plenty to choose from and i can assure you that in 99.9% of the cases, it wont be coming from a legit armsdealer...

You'd think these guns come out of thin air?
It's not like these dealers have their own weapons factories.

Of course they come from legitimate manufacturers- who else makes guns? Are you telling me when the Tec-9 was advertised for being "finger print proof" that wasn't aimed at a certain urban market of civilian purchasers?

These same guys manage to sell guns down stream to dealers and down through the stream of commerce?

Sure some of the guns get stolen. From who? And why aren't those guns safely locked away? SOme of the guns are borrowed from friends- in which case those friends should be criminally liable.
But unfortunately, most guns in criminal hands come from legal and licensed gun dealers.

Why do you think the issue of liability for gun shops was such a political issue a few years back?

Oh no! A gun dealer isn't negligent for knowing selling a large supply of guns to a buyer who is obvious going to sell the guns to drug dealers!

No, that gun dealer should be criminally liable and sent to jail.

Why not? Because the gun industry has the NRA in its pocket and can lobby congress.

Brady Center Report Reveals "Shady Dealings" By Licensed Gun Dealers That Supply Gunrunners

For Immediate Release:
01-22-2007

Contact Communications:
(202) 289-7319

Philadelphia, PA – As a national coalition of mayors prepares to convene in Washington, D.C. to urge action by the new Congress to curb illegal guns, the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence today released a report revealing that licensed gun dealers often are complicit in aiding gun traffickers, yet remain untouched by the law.

The report, Shady Dealings: Illegal Gun Trafficking from Licensed Gun Dealers, documents more than two-dozen cases of illegal gun trafficking from dealers across the country. In each case, gunrunners were prosecuted, but the dealers who supplied them suffered no legal sanctions.

The report was released this morning in Philadelphia, a city that is suffering from profound gun violence. In 2002, the city reached a 17-year-low in homicides with 288, but since then its homicide rate has skyrocketed. Last year, the city had 406 homicides and is on track to surpass that total in 2007.

The city’s leaders, including Mayor John Street, have aggressively urged state and Federal assistance to fight the illegal guns on the city’s streets, but so far they have been completely rebuffed.

“Congress needs to give law enforcement the tools it needs to crack down on the prime suppliers of illegal guns – rogue gun dealers who enable gun traffickers to conduct their deadly business,” said Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Center. “The last Congress, at the behest of the gun lobby, actually considered weakening Federal enforcement power against corrupt dealers. Thankfully, this effort was stopped. Now it is a new day in Washington. The flaws in Federal law that protect corrupt gun dealers could be easily fixed if the new Congress embraces the public’s interest and listens to the concerns of the nation’s Mayors,” Helmke added.

The Brady Center unveiled the report at a press conference joined by Police Commissioner Sylvester Johnson and others.

The report documents several typical scenarios in which dealers aid gunrunners, over and over again:

Large-volume sales of handguns, in which the sheer number of guns should be a red flag to dealers. In one case, gun dealer Charles Brown of Dayton, Ohio, sold 87 Hi-Point pistols to a gun trafficker’s straw buyer in a single transaction, thereby helping precipitate a crime wave in Buffalo, New York.

Repeat customers, in which the buyer purchases guns from the dealer over and over again, another red flag of trafficking. In one instance, a trafficker made at least 19 visits to Costello’s Gun Shop in North College Hill, Ohio to buy Hi-Point pistols, but was never turned away.

In-store straw purchasing teams, in which one person shops for the gun(s) but an accomplice fills out the Federal paperwork. Gun dealer Eagle Station of Fort Valley, Georgia, sold 19 handguns to a straw purchasing ring using this method.

Multiple purchases of the same model gun, where it would be clear to anyone that the guns are not being collected, but are going to be resold to gunrunners for street sales. Green Country Arms and Pawn, of Tulsa, Oklahoma, sold multiple copies of Hi-Point pistols to four different traffickers: Burin McDaniel (33 Hi-Points), Darren Lewis (8 Hi-Points); Wilbert Ross, Jr. (27 Hi-Points), Stephen Thompson (21 Hi-Points). Most of these guns ended up in criminals’ hands in Baltimore, Maryland.

Dealer sales to traffickers at gun shows, which provide special opportunities for trafficking. In one case, Classic Pawn and Jewelry, Inc. of Chickamauga, Georgia, sold eight guns to one trafficker and 20 more pistols to two other traffickers during a gun show in Kennesaw, Georgia. Several of the guns were recovered by New York City police, and one of them was used to shoot New York police officer Tanagiot Benekos.

For gun dealers like these, making life easier for gun traffickers is all reward and little risk. None of the dealers profiled in the Brady Center report has been put out of business by ATF or prosecuted for selling guns to convicted gun traffickers. All are still selling guns.

Fat chance this government would do anything-
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-397

also see-
More? http://www.bradycenter.org/gunindustrywatch/
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/gunsuits05.html
http://www.gunguys.com/?p=1902

Why? Because the gun industry doesn't give a shit who gets shot or why the guns get used, as long as restrictions are off the manufacturers and its retailers. God forbid they take responsibiity for their products! Target the buyers, not the sellers (Because there will always be new buyers and thus demand is uninterrupted).

And this isn't just a problem of the US. In Brazil the government almost passed laws to get illegal guns off the street but was defeated only after gun manufacturers began a PR campaign against the law - "because it will deny your rights to protect yourself!" This allows the gun dealers to continue selling guns to Brazil which end up in the streets. Happily, in Belgium, you probably don't have to deal with the street violence they have in Rio. But honestly, I don't want NY, Phili, Baltimore or Richmond to turn into urban battlegrounds either.

Honestly, I am not against guns, but I am for gun control. Why? Because it works. License and register the guns. If you're a citizen, non-criminal owner there's no real problem. If you're not, well then you deserve more punishment.

Does gun control work? Yes. Check out the stats here-
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/internatgun2.html

 

[SuAside]

actually, the casualties of firearms (legal AND criminal) are far inferior to tobacco or alcohol.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

completely true, but i like to drop it as much a possible since people too often tend to forget.

The nice thing about some pistol ammunition is that it might not penetrate walls as well as others. But I would think a bullet designed to go through body armor has remarkable penetration against cheap building construction. A good shooter might not miss, but then if these guys were that disciplined, then we wouldn't have so many bodies to clean up.

it has been designed no to ricochet and not to penetrate walls, only armor. it's quite technical how to achieve that, but appearantly it works like a charm om european walls.

of course, we tend to build a lot more solidly, while americans are known for prefab stuff. you'd need to look up the research in ze US of A to be sure, since i dont have that data.

From what I understand, drug dearlers used to favor the .38 but now favor large magazine capacity handguns. Something with punch but with a large clip.

.38 (aka 9x17mm) is just a short 9x19mm (NATO) bullet, so i'd rather pick a 9mm NATO than a .38. but sure, you can fit more 9mm into a gun than .45 etc.

ofcourse, when talking of .38 (spl) you're usually talking about revolvers, not pistols with magazines. .380 ACP however is found in small guns with a medium large magazine.

You'd think these guns come out of thin air?

no, i assume most are stolen. or pawned & dropped into the illegal circuit.

It's not like these dealers have their own weapons factories.

actually, they do. or at least in europe.

there are several gun rings that take disaffected or disabled guns & rework them into real ones. also, they often take alarm pistols and rework them into something that handles real ammo. (which is ofc dangerous to use)

Of course they come from legitimate manufacturers- who else makes guns? Are you telling me when the Tec-9 was advertised for being "finger print proof" that wasn't aimed at a certain urban market of civilian purchasers?

of course there are always abuses.

Sure some of the guns get stolen. From who? And why aren't those guns safely locked away?

well, when i see how most americans store their guns... especially the more vocal gunnuts... no real wonder.

the more prelevant way of thinking seems to be: the better you lock them away, the harder they are to get to when you need them. so most have at least 2 or 3 guns outside the safe.

Oh no! A gun dealer isn't negligent for knowing selling a large supply of guns to a buyer who is obvious going to sell the guns to drug dealers!

No, that gun dealer should be criminally liable and sent to jail.

but that's a minority.

Why? Because the gun industry doesn't give a shit who gets shot or why the guns get used, as long as restrictions are off the manufacturers and its retailers. God forbid they take responsibility for their products! Target the buyers, not the sellers (Because there will always be new buyers and thus demand is uninterrupted).

so you're going to close down apothecaries to stop illegal morfine sales?

it's obvious you need to stop abuses, but you can't punish all for a minority of abusers. if we did that, cars would be outlawed due to drunken drivers.

Honestly, I am not against guns, but I am for gun control. Why? Because it works. License and register the guns. If you're a citizen, non-criminal owner there's no real problem. If you're not, well then you deserve more punishment.

i'm not against registration. never said i was. fuck, i pay 65 euros per gun every 5 years now to be registrated & licensed.

tell that to any guntoting american & he'll shit a brick.

Does gun control work? Yes. Check out the stats here-
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/internatgun2.html

depends on what you mean with guncontrol...

UK prohibits handguns, crime has risen spectacularly lately.
Australia put on heavier gunlaws after that retard gone wild incident, crime has risen.

Swiss has extremely lacks gunlaws and 1/2nd of the adult population has a gun, yet one of the lowest crimerates on earth. hell, the Swiss send their army reservists home with an assault rifle and ammo...
Finland allows for silencers etc, yet pretty low crimerates.

there is gun control & there is gun control, Welsh. define your gun control well, or we're likely not talking about the same thing...

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

Well the best gun control is to have no guns to sell. Fuck, I live in a city of 2 million and I can't remember the last time someone was shot in the news.

 

[DammitBoy]

It's hilarious to read what euros thinks happens over here - especially ones that quote such nonsense as anything posted by the Brady group.

It's frikken propaganda at best.

Everytime I go into a gun shop or a gun show - I see the gang bangers and what they are buying.

Two things, always the same things. Cheap 9mm's and SKS's.

A gangbanger doesn't even know what the fiveseven is, nor does he care. He want's a 9 mill, he wishes it was a glock - but he can't afford that, so he buys the cheapest piece of shit 9mm on the table at the show or in the pawn shop.

The last gun show I went to in Jackson, Mississippi - there was a table selling SKS's for $150.00 and then for an extra $50.00, they were outfitting them with a poly resin folding stock. The negros were waiting in line 20 deep for that table.

After making their purchase, these retards would stand around with their buddies in their best Scarface poses.

That's what really happens - not this other nonsense or the shit you see on tv or the movies.

---

ps - Gun control is a 1" group at 300 yards...

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

We were talking gun legislation through the world. America is America so I don't care for what "shit" is going on over there as long as you don't. It's just that we laugh our ass off, you know the protests when bush comes `round here.

Michael Moore's films enlightened us to what is America, anyway. It's biased, but who gives a shit, as long as you don't. We know you're allowed to get guns because of ze germans or space aliens coming down wearing body armor.

Just joking, I know it's the law over there, and law's law, right? I enjoyed your snip about the beaners though, I bet it's true. I was saying that I haven't heard anything like that in the news here(gunshot victims), and neither the criminals use guns, they are just very cunning I guess. And here we just blame the person, not video games or some other shit. Some try to blame the system, being such a shitty country, you just blame yourself IF you work in that system, you know how it goes.

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

We were talking gun legislation through the world. America is America so I don't care for what "shit" is going on over there as long as you don't. It's just that we laugh our ass off, you know the protests when bush comes `round here.

Michael Moore's films enlightened us to what is America, anyway. It's biased, but who gives a shit, as long as you don't. We know you're allowed to get guns because of ze germans or space aliens coming down wearing body armor.

Just joking, I know it's the law over there, and law's law, right? I enjoyed your snip about the beaners though, I bet it's true. I was saying that I haven't heard anything like that in the news here(gunshot victims), and neither the criminals use guns, they are just very cunning I guess. And here we just blame the person, not video games or some other shit. Some try to blame the system, being such a shitty country, you just blame yourself IF you work in that system, you know how it goes.

First of all Michael Moore's films don't enlighten anybody - they are propaganda bullshit. 2nd of all Moore, gun laws in america and all that shit have already been discussed in this thread.

But since you insist - let me give you a quick insight on America. In America - you'd be smart to look out for #1. Thats what I do. I don't give a shit about what kind of guns the gangbangers have I don't spend 10 seconds a week thinking about my personal safety. I live in an apartment that I leave unlocked all day and I leave the front door open at night during the summer time. Why you may ask? Becuase my 1911 is loaded with hollowpoints and lying on my bedside table.

 

[SuAside]

what is a gangbanger going to use an SKS for, DammitBoy? not exactly the gun of choice to shoot up a gang or something.

ps - Gun control is a 1" group at 300 yards...

Gun control means using both hands

el_Prez]In America - you'd be smart to look out for #1. Thats what I do. I don't give a shit about what kind of guns the gangbangers have I don't spend 10 seconds a week thinking about my personal safety. I live in an apartment that I leave unlocked all day and I leave the front door open at night during the summer time. Why you may ask? Becuase my 1911 is loaded with hollowpoints and lying on my bedside table.

i can do that easily overhere without any guns.

 

[Loxley]

what is a gangbanger going to use an SKS for, DammitBoy? not exactly the gun of choice to shoot up a gang or something.

ps - Gun control is a 1" group at 300 yards...

Gun control means using both hands

el_Prez]In America - you'd be smart to look out for #1. Thats what I do. I don't give a shit about what kind of guns the gangbangers have I don't spend 10 seconds a week thinking about my personal safety. I live in an apartment that I leave unlocked all day and I leave the front door open at night during the summer time. Why you may ask? Becuase my 1911 is loaded with hollowpoints and lying on my bedside table.

i can do that easily overhere without any guns.

There are no moquitoes where you people live then?

 

[iii]

el_Prez]Becuase my 1911 is loaded with hollowpoints and lying on my bedside table.

Yeah and my USP Expert is locked in the Club were I practice shooting .

Actually it just isn't necessary where I live, so I feel sorry that you have to think about personal defence.

Anyway we already have discussed that there is a difference between the US of A and us Euro Fucktards.

What I am interested in is:

If someone tries to break into your house will you try to kill him in the first place or "just" take him out of action?

 

[SuAside]

There are no moquitoes where you people live then?

havent seen any yet this year. which is troubling since we've had like 6 weeks of summerlike weather in 2 months time. might mean we'll have a mosquito plague on our hand later this year. (or no mosquitos at all, but no one would complain about that)

 

[welsh]

Suaside the comparison you make with drugstores is correct, but that's the problem. If a drug abuser comes in and buys a prescription, overdoses and dies, he's a victim of misuse of the drug.

But if the same drug store sells bottles of speed to someone who then sells those pills on the street, than the drug store is liable- simply because drugs are regulated and the buyer needed a prescription.

But what if the same drug dealer comes in with a weak looking prescription and buys lots and lots of drugs. THen the pharmacist should have known and should be liable.

Apply that to here- American gun dealers can sell lots and lots of guns to the same individual with few controls. There are no presciptions, there is no oversight, and the law defends his right to sell how much and to whoever he wants provided he abides by the law. So what if the a buyer in a highly regulated state like New York or in a city regulqted city (perhaps Phili) goes and buys his guns from another dealer outside that jurisdiction.

And the NRA and the gun manufacutures defend this. That's fucked up.

This idea that criminals get their guns by stealing them is nonsense. They buy them like everyone else. And if they borrowed them, then those they borrowed the guns from should be liable.

"Yo JT, can borrow your Glock?"
"Wa fo?"
"gots to put a cap in some nigga's ass"
"Ya a'right."

Hey Prez, I don't lock my doors either and it wasn't because I have a .45. It's because I have a decent neighborhood.

And that's the thing- the people who are most likely to defend the right to own guns as self-defense are the least likely to suffer from them. It's these same people who so strongly argue that people who live in high gun crime areas can't regulate guns. Bullshit.

And what kinds of regulation are we talking about- some safety precautions that guns stay locked up and don't get stolen? Some registration requirements so we don't give guns to some psycho like the V-Tech shooter, or someone with a criminal record? Seriously, you guys are willing to drop $750 for a FN FiveseveN, why not drop a few dollars to register the gun? Shit, you got to pay a few bucks to get a fishing license or go to a beach in some parts of this country. A few dollars for a license doesn't seem that painful.

(Cause the government might take it away? I am not saying kill the NRA either.)

And you're right, you're not going to catch every gun dealer who breaks the law, but you give everyone stronger notice of what's acceptable and what's not. Those gun dealers that comply with the law are going to want to see the gun dealers who don't punished- why? Because they don't want the competition. And as the number of gun dealers who sell to straw purchasers decline, the easier it is to police the bad ones.

Of course this isn't going to stop violence on the streets. As long as gangs fight for territory, they are going to kill each other. But I would rather have them do it with knives and clubs then pistols. Less chance for them to miss and hit some poor bystander and it allows the police to have a stronger edge. Besides killing a person with a knife is harder than with a pistol.

 

[SuAside]

Seriously, you guys are willing to drop $750 for a FN FiveseveN, why not drop a few dollars to register the gun? Shit, you got to pay a few bucks to get a fishing license or go to a beach in some parts of this country. A few dollars for a license doesn't seem that painful.

i already said, belgium forces shooters to pay 65 euros every 5 years to renew their license. that is for EVERY gun. (except so called specific sporting and hunting guns, but that's pretty much restricted to 5 shot .22 pistols, bolt action rifles and non-automatic shotguns).

i think it's a fucking scam & harrasment, but whatever, i'll pay it.

in my opinion i should pay for a license per gun once at purchase and every x years for a permit to fire them. paying your entire life for each seperate gun in insane... especially if your damn gun costs you 150 euros (a mosin-nagant for example) and you have to pay 65 euros every 5 years to own it (not even shoot it).

Of course this isn't going to stop violence on the streets. As long as gangs fight for territory, they are going to kill each other. But I would rather have them do it with knives and clubs then pistols. Less chance for them to miss and hit some poor bystander and it allows the police to have a stronger edge. Besides killing a person with a knife is harder than with a pistol.

i doubt gun registration will lower firearms crime. there are too many guns floating around as is in the USA. it'll take 50 years before you actually see an effect of registration.

besides, implementing forced registration and a pay x every x years policy forces a lot of once legit guns into the criminal circuit. (as we've seen in Belgium the past year, but luckily it has yet to materialise into higher crimerates)

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

There are no moquitoes where you people live then?

Not in Flagstaff, AZ. Also I live on a 3rd floor of an apartment complex so mice and skunks and shit cant get into our place

Actually it just isn't necessary where I live, so I feel sorry that you have to think about personal defence.

You managed to miss my point entirely. I don't think about my personaly saftey at all. I'm bigger and stronger than 95% of the population so i don't fear getting jumped on the street during the day. At night i know that if some kind of crazy shit did happen (which it wouldn't) I have a weapon close.

 

[DammitBoy]

what is a gangbanger going to use an SKS for, DammitBoy? not exactly the gun of choice to shoot up a gang or something.

Why not? Because you didn't see it in the last movie or tv show about gangs in the USA?

They like the folding stock, the cheap ammo, and the thirty round magazines. Plus, they think it looks badass.

Usually, they end up shooting each other. Black on black drug related shootings account for a huge percentage of our gun deaths - mostly teens or young men in their twenties...

 

[Vicious_Squid]

"Gun control" is shit because criminals don't care what laws there are.

So you're telling me that law abiding citizens aren't allowed to have "assault weapons" but criminals can?

An overwhelming majority of LEOs in this country will tell you they don't support gun bans.

And a pic of my 16" AR for the hell of it:

Alcohol, tobacco, and firearm.

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

So you're telling me that law abiding citizens aren't allowed to have "assault weapons" but criminals can?

How about they sell you Stingers? The terrorists have them, right? Why shouldn't you?


I really envy the fact that you can leave doors unlocked (NEVER HAPPENS HERE) and as a bonus, you get to have a bedside loaded gun. You just don't know how good you people have it! It's just awful to hear your basic living conditions, all privileges of being born between some other freakin` borders.

You managed to miss my point entirely. I don't think about my personaly saftey at all. I'm bigger and stronger than 95% of the population so i don't fear getting jumped on the street during the day. At night i know that if some kind of crazy shit did happen (which it wouldn't) I have a weapon close.

Read above. In Eastern Europe you'd be cut up by some guy you flipped. Even with all my bodybuilding, it doesn't discourage people, it's funny, some just really ask for it. I just have the opposite part of my palm (?) swollen couse I had to put it in practice today.

Let's switch countries for 2 weeks, and you'll pet your guns and cherish the stupid fat bastards that can't push a fucking cart and who cross the other way when they *even* get looked at, over in the States.

Fucking look at Iraq. Your way of thinking netted you guys many lives over there. World's just not that nice a place, y'know?

 

[welsh]

"Gun control" is shit because criminals don't care what laws there are.

So you're telling me that law abiding citizens aren't allowed to have "assault weapons" but criminals can?

Gun control is shit because it doesn't exist. Criminals get guns not just by stealing them (a small percentage) or because they borrow them, but because they get them through legal channels, just like you do.

I am not saying that you shouldn't be allowed to buy a gun. I am saying that the sale of guns should be controlled. Why? Because unlike other industries, the gun industry is still not regulating itself. If it did there wouldn't be straw purchases or the big gun show loophole.

And yes, a small portion of the gun dealing industries deals guns. Only 1,020 (according to a 2000 ATF report) accounted for 57% of the guns involved in crime. Same report finds that nearly 51% of guns used in crimes involving youth and juveniles came from straw purchasers, nearly 10% from gun shows, and another 14% unregulated private sellers. And you're telling me this shouldn't be regulated?

permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps4006/020400report.pdf

So yes, criminals get guns from criminals- but the criminals they get their guns from are known and not arrest. WTF?

And yeah, most cops support civilians owning guns. Problem is that everytime some says gun control the owner thinks, "They're going to take my gun away." That's not what I am arguing.

But what about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals? Are you telling me that cops don't mind going up against armed criminals, perhaps some kid high on speed? And how do you plan on doing that if you can't regulate the industry?

I don't see a problem with you owning an AR-15 if you're not nuts or don't have a history of felony arrest. But when you are, then you shouldn't get the gun.