The Guns and Ammo Thread

[Seeks]

It rolls, deforms and fragments inside the body.

We only sort of disagree on this one. As mentioned earlier, those impressive wounds are caused by fragmentation... and when it's fragmenting, it's not really "tumbling" anymore. If it were, it'd just be getting deformed, not fragmented.

Ex: A 5.56 (or 5.45 I suppose), when working as it's designed (well, technically, NOT working properly.. wink wink), is only tumbling in the same way that a glass jar is still "tumbling" when you throw it at the ground and it shatters.

I don't have sound at the computer I'm at, but nothing in those videos showed much in the way of proof of tumbling. I've seen similar-looking gel tests with handgun rounds. It all depends on the variables, which are pretty much never listed on YouTube (i.e., 10% Mold, 15%, whatever).

Of course, that being said, a rifle is a rifle and a pistol is a pistol, to quote Old Painless (not related to Fallout).

And I suppose I should refine my position on tumbling a bit by adding "in general." There are a billion ways a bullet can react when entering tissue, but in general, it's not going to buzz-saw through flesh.

 

[SuAside]

Your using logic when there are tests out there that prove otherwise. In fact a light tumbling bullet will roll several times causing horrific wounds. Modern rounds, Warsaw and Nato rounds do this. It rolls, deforms and fragments inside the body.

not all modern rounds.

stuff like FN-H's 5.7mm AP round pierces, tumbles but does not fragment at all but stops inside the first soft body hit. (on purpose obviously)

but it should be noted that the 5.56mm and 5.45mm tumble and fragment etc causing fucking ugly wounds, they also tend to be very ineffective when shooting through foilage or soft cover. their lighter tip, which allows them to tumble, is the cause of this.

personally, i think nothing beats a 6.5mm Grendel in an assault rifle... (not even 6.8mm SPC)

I've read how the Afghani's during the 1980's feared the ak74 more than the ak47 because of how much pain the round caused and the horrific wounds it delt without much in the way of external traces.

afghani's feared the AK 74 because it had much further accurate range than the AK 47. they could outshoot the 47's with their bolt action rifles from afar as the 47's were never intended for that.

the 74 made that a little trickier.

 

[Seeks]

I'd take a Grendel over 5.56, but I'd have to say that I'm a 6.8 kinda guy.

Either would be an improvement over current .mil standard issue. In the US, at least; I'll admit that I'm ignorant of other countries' militaries, Brits, French and Isreali somewhat excluded. Somewhat.

 

[SuAside]

I'd take a Grendel over 5.56, but I'd have to say that I'm a 6.8 kinda guy.

why? long range ballistics are far inferior?

Either would be an improvement over current .mil standard issue. In the US, at least; I'll admit that I'm ignorant of other countries' militaries, Brits, French and Isreali somewhat excluded. Somewhat.

those named are NATO nations and hence use STANAG NATO munitions. (5.56x45mm, 7.62x51mm, .50cal, 9x19mm,...)

 

[A.S.S.R.]

I will (cash and free time permitting) be getting a basic Canadian possession license within the following year, and am looking to purchase a solid pistol thereafter (for recreational shooting/defense of home and livestock/dramatic camwhore internet self-portraits). Something in .45 ACP, most likely.

I'm currently eyeing H&K's USP series. Any recommendations?

Would it be worth paying the extra couple of hundred for a USP Expert/Elite or a Mark 23?

Would the Compact be a fair choice here?

Also, if I would be buying two pieces within several months, is there a recommended order of progression?

Thanks for any input.

- A.S.S.R.

 

[Ah-Teen]

Yes.

 

[SuAside]

I'm currently eyeing H&K's USP series. Any recommendations?

fine guns, but dont forget to look into these as well:
- Kimber Custom II (simple, rugged, accurate, reliable)
- Kimber Eclipse Custom (out of my pricerange sadly, but listed anyway)
- Springfield Mil-Spec (just fucking classic, I love it)
- Para Ordnance P14-45's (not sure I like the double stack though, haven't had the chance to fire one yet)
- Sig Sauer Revolution
- STI Trojan

Would it be worth paying the extra couple of hundred for a USP Expert/Elite or a Mark 23?

FORGET ABOUT THE Mark23... it's too expensive (and freaking bulky). while a good gun, you are much better off with an USP...

as for the kind of USP to get, i'd really just recommend the USP Expert, USP tactical, or USP standard. (depending on availability)

Would the Compact be a fair choice here?

only if you want to CCW it.

if not, there is no reason whatsoever to get a Compact.

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

I will (cash and free time permitting) be getting a basic Canadian possession license within the following year, and am looking to purchase a solid pistol thereafter (for recreational shooting/defense of home and livestock/dramatic camwhore internet self-portraits). Something in .45 ACP, most likely.

I'm currently eyeing H&K's USP series. Any recommendations?

Would it be worth paying the extra couple of hundred for a USP Expert/Elite or a Mark 23?

Would the Compact be a fair choice here?

Also, if I would be buying two pieces within several months, is there a recommended order of progression?

Thanks for any input.

- A.S.S.R.

If Chuck Norris were a gun he'd be this one.

 

[A.S.S.R.]

Thanks again for all the advice.

Sadly, a lot of those models aren't listed in the catalogues of the few better places around here (and I've been told that importing stuff ordered online can be a big hassle). H&K, Kimber, Sigarms and Springfield Armory seem to be the best options, simply in terms of availability.

Would anyone here be experienced with the Canadian licensing process?

- A.S.S.R.

 

[DammitBoy]

Thanks again for all the advice.

Sadly, a lot of those models aren't listed in the catalogues of the few better places around here (and I've been told that importing stuff ordered online can be a big hassle). H&K, Kimber, Sigarms and Springfield Armory seem to be the best options, simply in terms of availability.

Would anyone here be experienced with the Canadian licensing process?

- A.S.S.R.

Para-Ordinance is an awesome gun and the P14 is 14 rounds of acp firepower. Alsoplustoo - it's made in Canada.

I love my P14!

 

[Seeks]

Pft. 1911s are nice, but seriously... better guns exist nowadays. At least, if what you're concerned with is reliability, out-of-the-box accuracy (as in, not after $2,500 in customization/"tuning"), dependability and price.

Cosmetics, sure, they still go to 1911s or revolvers.

The USPs are all nice, though I can't recall off the top of my head which ones are which. I prefer fixed-sights, though you might differ.

As mentioned, the only real reason to get a USP Compact is if you're going to be carrying it. Kinda doubtful, since you live in Canada, but then again, I'm not an expert in Canadian gun laws.

The Mark 23 is a little bit better, but more than twice the price before imports/tariffs/whatever. I'd stick with a USP or an HK45, if you're married to HK.

Honestly, I'd just get a Glock. My preference, though.

You really can't go wrong with any of the guns you listed. I'm not a big fan of Kimbers, since I don't like shit that's arbitrarily over-priced, but maybe that's just me. If you have the money and like fancy finishes on your guns, go for it.

 

[SuAside]

The Mark 23 is a little bit better, but more than twice the price before imports/tariffs/whatever. I'd stick with a USP or an HK45, if you're married to HK.

a USP Expert goes for about 1350 euros and a Mark 23 goes for 1475 euros, so it's not that big a stretch for a european.

Honestly, I'd just get a Glock. My preference, though.

it's a good carry pistol & all, but for range stuff, i find the comfort kinda lacking.

You really can't go wrong with any of the guns you listed. I'm not a big fan of Kimbers, since I don't like shit that's arbitrarily over-priced, but maybe that's just me. If you have the money and like fancy finishes on your guns, go for it.

Kimber, PO, Springfield,... they're all priced the same (or overpriced the same) in Europe, so it really doesn't matter for me.

 

[DammitBoy]

I'm not a big fan of Kimbers, since I don't like shit that's arbitrarily over-priced, but maybe that's just me. If you have the money and like fancy finishes on your guns, go for it.

Kimber's are very well made and I can get one with a plain black finish for $750.00 - that's less expensive than a lot of lesser handguns out there...

I'm gonna stick with my Para-Ordinance though. It's tough, accurate, hi-capacity, reliable and about the same price as the Kimber I mentioned.

 

[Seeks]

a USP Expert goes for about 1350 euros and a Mark 23 goes for 1475 euros, so it's not that big a stretch for a european.

God. That's probably the first thing about Europe I envy, aside from Nuclear power. The US dollar seems like it's approaching damn-near fucking peso status over there.


And re: Kimber, it's important to keep in mind that I'm working with what's in my neck of the woods. I've never seen one for less than $1,100, and when I could get a Taurus 1911 or a Springfield mil-spec for... what, $500? I just don't see a reason for Kimber, outside of pretty finishes.

I'm not saying they're bad guns, though. Most people I know who have them stand by them, which isn't nothing.

 

[OgamiItto]

Springfield all the way, they are ACCURATE and reliable.

My friend has a compact Kimber, it malfunctions every other magazine. He had to send it back twice, and it still fucks up every now and then (and yes with FMJ).

 

[Starseeker]

I will (cash and free time permitting) be getting a basic Canadian possession license within the following year, and am looking to purchase a solid pistol thereafter (for recreational shooting/defense of home and livestock/dramatic camwhore internet self-portraits). Something in .45 ACP, most likely.

I'm currently eyeing H&K's USP series. Any recommendations?

Would it be worth paying the extra couple of hundred for a USP Expert/Elite or a Mark 23?

Would the Compact be a fair choice here?

Also, if I would be buying two pieces within several months, is there a recommended order of progression?

Thanks for any input.

- A.S.S.R.

What about a CZ75?

http://www.answers.com/CZ 75

 

[SuAside]

i dont like the slide on a CZ75, but other than that, they are very good weapons for their price (in europe at least)

 

[OgamiItto]

I will (cash and free time permitting) be getting a basic Canadian possession license within the following year, and am looking to purchase a solid pistol thereafter (for recreational shooting/defense of home and livestock/dramatic camwhore internet self-portraits). Something in .45 ACP, most likely.

I'm currently eyeing H&K's USP series. Any recommendations?

Would it be worth paying the extra couple of hundred for a USP Expert/Elite or a Mark 23?

Would the Compact be a fair choice here?

Also, if I would be buying two pieces within several months, is there a recommended order of progression?

Thanks for any input.

- A.S.S.R.

What about a CZ75?

http://www.answers.com/CZ 75

I heard the CZ75 is one of the best for the money (9mm or .40S&W). I am thinking of the CZ .45 though.

 

[fallout ranger]

Does anyone here like black powder?

 

[Ah-Teen]

Does anyone here like black powder?

Love it! Especially flintlocks.

I also kind of like it when it hang fires, but thats just me. <,,<