The Impossible Will Take A Little While

The Vault Dweller

The Vault Dweller

always looking for water.
Overthinking It a website that examines popular culture recently created an article that examines Fallout 3 with an emphasis on the music and its intended effect on the atmosphere of the game.

<blockquote>Fallout 3, the most critically acclaimed video game of 2008, continues the series tradition of incorporating big band music from the 40s and 50s. However, while the first two games only used these classics for one-offs (Fallout 2’s instructional video being a classic example), Fallout 3 is the first game to incorporate them into the soundtrack.</blockquote>

It's quite long and well-written going as far as to relate the eras the music is taken from to existential philosophy and the post-apocalyptic environment. Fans will be surprised to see such a deep and introspective article.

<blockquote>By pairing cheery big band hits of the 40s and 50s with post-apocalyptic despair, Fallout 3 does more to advance the case for existentialism than five decades of French philosophy. It projects the player into a world where hope is impossible: the human race has reached the end of its technological arc, and the die-off has begun. But instead of descending into savagery, the game reminds you of the sentimental world from which this one emerged. Their sentiment and your despair have equal weight. Some people – raiders, slavers and the tyrants of the Enclave – will take that as an excuse for brutality. Others realize that it means you’re free to do good.

The battle between right and wrong comes not from God or from society, but from the war in every human’s private soul. And that war never changes.</blockquote>

<a href="http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/23/fallout-3/" target="_blank">The Impossible Will Take A Little While
 
Yes, it never changes and nobody knows who started it. Shit.
That's exactly what F1 and F2 did without it, without using any 40s or 50s hits, isn't it? Those existential themes like "being condemned to chose" (like in Sartre's) without any authority over you in a world of the fall of man (Camus') are - one may say - just part of the setting...


Anyway. There are many more "philosophical" themes explored in F3 - many of them much more interesting - than this one. Like: what are the relations between family, nation and identification. And this one is explored through the entire game, from the main quest, search for the father and a battle against the Enclave - to several side quests and places, like "Stealing the independence" or "Blood ties" and - so hated by NMA "gems of hatred" - Republic of Dave.
Yes: that indeed makes this game really good narrated (despite lack of balance). And while I might like F2's narration with it's powerful themes - the most important of which was imo popculture's influences, philosophy of politics and addiction - I must really admit that F3 themes are much more compelling and some definitions are simply "better".
 
And don't forget Little Lamplight: Now there's a take on family, eh?

When did I become a troll? :(


**But seriously:


In regard to the big band, uplifting music that I'm assuming exists in Fallout 3 (never bothered with Three Dog in my short time venturing the Capital Waste'), it sees out of place; The examples given in the article, if anything spoil the atmosphere -- darkness, loneliness, survival against extreme odds -- of the first Fallout (and to a lesser extent, fallout 2) by contrasting it so.

"But instead of descending into savagery, the game reminds you of the sentimental world from which this one emerged."

Or, it makes it even cooler to explode nuclear cars and battle flesh-eating orc-super mutant hybrids (via self parody)!

Article was a nice read; Specifically the fan-fic pages. Here's someone who really can suspend their belief and take hold of the absurdity of the game world. Wish I could.

Edit**
 
I might like F2's narration with it's powerful themes - the most important of which was imo popculture's influences
Click to expand...

...you must be a sock puppet. Please tell me you're a sock puppet. :?
 
Everything this article says is true, but really the existentialism and ironic juxtaposition in Fallout 3 is all on loan from the first two.
From playing the game, I never got the feeling that Bethesda "got" this stuff when they were doing it, they were just taking things they thought were interesting from the first two (like the music in the intros) and expanding on them.
 
As far as I'm concerned, having 40's and 50's music in Fallout 3 was just an artificial way of creating a retro atmosphere without having to put too much thought into design.

Just imagine Bioshock without the art-deco but with Galaxy New Radio...looks lame and forced...
 
I always smirked when fo3 vegetables were trying to make it more of a sequel by saying stupid stuff like "it even has 50s music, just like previous Fallouts!"
For Christ's sake, FO1 and 2 had Maybe and A Kiss to Build a Dream On and that's it. The real "music" of Fallouts was Morgan's ambient but of course he was too god for bethesda and they went with Zur's boring piece of ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

As far as I'm concerned, having 40's and 50's music in Fallout 3 was just an artificial way of creating a retro atmosphere without having to put too much thought into design.
Click to expand...
Same here.
 
exactly. When it comes to direct "50s" references Fallout 1 wasnt really full of it. And neither was really Fallout 2. It doesnt mean you had it not there sometimes. But if anything it was really more about a 50s vision about the future and even those was not always everywhere present.

Fallout 3 feels more like the direct 50s would have been hit. And that leads me to the idea that Bethesda either does not understand Fallout in general or never even tried it to get what was part of it. The game isnt that much about past or the 50s for me anyway. It was always interesting to see the effect of your choices without always the label of "good" and "bad" (if we forget the karma for a few moments here ... ).

duma said:
...
Anyway. There are many more "philosophical" themes explored in F3 - many of them much more interesting - than this one. Like: what are the relations between family, nation and identification. And this one is explored through the entire game, from the main quest, search for the father and a battle against the Enclave - to several side quests and places, like "Stealing the independence" or "Blood ties" and - so hated by NMA "gems of hatred" - Republic of Dave.
....
Click to expand...
Philosophical themes ? I somewhat doubt heavily that Bethesda ever really thought about a general survey with their "quests" like your serach-the-father quest, lidle lamplight or anything. Thats mainly cause many of the quests are designed by different people in Bethesda and its not usual for them to conect "one" quest with "another" one. They usualy dont like it (which was also explained by Todd even) and design the parts of the game much more as a single self-contained element. Nothing what you do in one quest really changes the outcome for other quests in any way.

That is the reason for example why no one is "mad" at you (the player) for blowing up Megaton or will forget all your kills after 3 days as Bethesda want to avoid at all costs that some people eventualy shut themself out from future quests though that kind of style of course elimanates much the possiblity of "role playing" inside of the story cause to the quest givers it makes no difference if youre not really playing a "evil" or "good" person. You will always have a chance to get EVERY quest. Very much like in Oblivion ... as it works there exactly the same way.
 
I liked the radio in Fallout 3. It plays songs I know and love. Yes, I listen to, and enjoy, big band and swing.

MrBumble said:
As far as I'm concerned, having 40's and 50's music in Fallout 3 was just an artificial way of creating a retro atmosphere without having to put too much thought into design.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that may be true, but I still liked it.
 
For me, the radios kinda killed the atmosphere. Running around and gunning down baddies, while listening to songs like "Baby I love you, don't leave me" etc. isn't that kind of mature experience I want, so I usually ended up turning them off.
 
One has to wonder why they are listening to 40s music in the future. It worked in the intros to the previous games because it set the mood and as it was an intro was detached from the game.

However in F3 it's intergrated into the gameplay and story which begs the question how 300 year old music managed to survive a nuclear war and how comes the radio stations don't play anything more recent.
 
Overthinking it indeed. The emptiness of games like Fallout 3, the lack of content, is what allows guys like these writers or duma to claim brilliant underlying philosophical currents. They're not there, but they're understandably easy to imagine
 
However in F3 it's intergrated into the gameplay and story which begs the question how 300 year old music managed to survive a nuclear war and how comes the radio stations don't play anything more recent.
Click to expand...

Maybe they thought "hey, imagine if the world get fucked up by a nuclear bomb in the 50's, what kind of music else they could listen, huh?"

Thats the only reason I can see to put so much of big bands and swing in F3. And we can see, that different from Fallout 1 or 2, to Bestheda, the bombs were dropped DURING the 50's, and F3, despite the calendar saying otherwise, is like 10 years after everything got exploded, not one hundred years after it, in a age heavily influenced by the way of these people thinking.
 
Alphadrop said:
One has to wonder why they are listening to 40s music in the future. It worked in the intros to the previous games because it set the mood and as it was an intro was detached from the game.
Click to expand...

Plus the DJ Three Dog's (or what ever his name was) gangsta voice:

"Let's listen to sooome tuuunesss, yehaw! Right now from yo favourite DJ at the Capital Wasteland. Hell Yeah!"

And then some 20-50's songs playing...wtf?

I think there was a discussion about it once. That it is rather odd that the society and technology moved on, but the music did not...
 
Crni Vuk said:
Philosophical themes? I somewhat doubt heavily that Bethesda ever really thought about a general survey with their "quests" like your serach-the-father quest, lidle lamplight or anything. Thats mainly cause many of the quests are designed by different people in Bethesda and its not usual for them to conect "one" quest with "another" one. They usualy dont like it (which was also explained by Todd even) and design the parts of the game much more as a single self-contained element. Nothing what you do in one quest really changes the outcome for other quests in any way.
Click to expand...
Yes, you're right, roleplaying is not really present in F3, but I bet they had planned overall themes (while we can never know for sure). Themes have really nothing to do with roleplaying - not really - fpshooters also cover themes. And if there are no themes - general themes - in F3, how one could ever say, let's say, that "Mothership Zeta" won't fit "even into F3"? You know what I mean - let's not make our criticizm a matter of intuition, it would be childish.
Moreover, it's not really your concern what Beth did and what they didn't thought about; it's not important if they ever had any general survey with their themes and quests. This we will never know, nevermind what Howard may say. Up to you is to make this survey yourself; because interpretation is a personal thing and because you need it to decide - judge - what fits into F3 and what of F3 fits into Fallout universe in general.

JayGrey said:
And don't forget Little Lamplight: Now there's a take on family, eh?
Click to expand...
You may or may not make jokes of Lil' Lamplight - ofc, it's entirely up to you again - but you have to admit that it fits all right into F3 narration when paternity is understood as it's central theme.

IMissLark said:
...you must be a sock puppet. Please tell me you're a sock puppet. :?
Click to expand...
The amount of easter eggs makes it really hard to say that they are all there for their own sake, mate. It would be just like ignoring that this game's narration is heavilly based on references; only because of them it can be considered as serious critique of "our" contemporary (or, let's say, 1998). Because you're not going to tell me that them references are generally meaningless and done only for fun? (isn't that what you criticize about F3?)

Brother None said:
Overthinking it indeed. The emptiness of games like Fallout 3, the lack of content, is what allows guys like these writers or duma to claim brilliant underlying philosophical currents. They're not there, but they're understandably easy to imagine.
Click to expand...
Isn't it all about narration and interpretation then? And how it can be empty of themes, when they are not "in the game", but "in it's interpretation". Because - how to explain it? - interpretation is not present in the game itself; one comes up with it himself in contact with the game.

*edited
 
duma said:
in F3, how one could ever say, let's say, that "Mothership Zeta" won't fit "even into F3"?
Click to expand...

It'll fit Fallout 3 just fine, because Fallout 3 has no internal coherence whatsoever. It won't fit the Fallout franchise, tho', which used to have internal coherence

You're seriously arguing Fallout 3 is a thematic game? Hell, I'll just quote NMA's review at you:
Instead of a consistent and logical world, we get "cool shit". What's cool shit, you ask? An excellent question. Cool shit is whatever stuff random Bethesda designers thought would be cool. To be honest, Fallout 2 was also sporadically guilty of this syndrome, but Fallout 3 takes it to a thoroughly different level.

A town in the crater of an unexploded bomb? - Cool!
A Peter Pan-esque settlement of invincible kids who expel people when they hit 16? - Awesome!
A Lovecraftian Cthulhu-dedicated "Dunwich horror" location - Pretty awesome!
A gang of blood-drinking vampire wannabies - Beyond awesome!
A howling radio DJ keeping the bored populace of the, uh, wasteland informed of your progress - wait, let me check my awesometer... my god, it's over 9000!!!

Where's the coherence in the above? Where's the theme?

duma said:
Because you're not going to tell me that them references are generally meaningless and done only for fun?
Click to expand...

Of course they are. It's really reaching to try and claim otherwise.
 
@ Brother None:
All right, I'll try to show the coherence. But don't get me wrong and try to take my take on F3 as a "thematical game" seriously.

I believe that F3's take on paternity is that it's kind of "legal fiction". While maternity is "real" - there are blood ties and all - paternity is just a "matter of discourse". There is no such a real connection between father and child like there is between child and it's mother. (why player's mother dies at the childbirth may be understood differently anyway; it's not that important).
This fiction - paternity - is really central for F3's narration. Affirmation of this fiction - just like any fiction - is a matter of identification. There are people looking for identification all over the Capital Wasteland. Those "vampire wannabies" - "The Family" - are also all about it; guess: why they call themselves "The Family"? More of this: vampirism is also a pure fiction. But it's really strong fiction - it's proved by those "blood ties" (just like maternity is). Kids of Lil' Lamplight - they don't need no father, one may guess. However, even they need something to identify with - an odd but effective practice of expelling: a belief.
A nation - something that F3's Enclave's propaganda is all about - is also kind of identification. And when it comes to propaganda - information war is also very strong theme in this game and it's also coherent with this fiction theme.
Also: identification means taking seriously an authority.
There is more to it. Let's leave it for a moment - you may find examples all over this game, not to mention Dave's Republic.
So: throughout entire game player experiences various ways - failed mostly - people are trying to identify themselves with their ideal.

There's more. One may even consider that this "failure of fiction/failure of paternity" is a metafictional theme. It's meta-game: one may come to guess that F3 - with all this paternity stuff - points us Beth's take on their license agreements or take on F3's relation to F1 and F2 (-:
(yeah: identification means taking seriously an authority...)


Well I'm sure that my opinion is not the only there is; but at last it allows me to justify F3 in many ways and not get bitter on what happened with Fallout.
Not at all, at last.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top