The Neo-Liberals ...

Our Mayor here in Bogota has been highly criticized by anyone who isn't a moron. Dude cut the budget of all public projects BY FUCKING HALF, including health related. He has mostly been flooding the city with old buses and halting the Underground metro project the previous administration had in place just to benefit his transportation magnate leash holders. To justify his halting of the metro system he has said shit like the metro system being urine infested rat holes (which says more about his own incompetence if he thinks he can't mantain them properly) and even went as far as to say that the Metro was for poor people in a very dismissive manner, meanwhile all the buses, lack of traffic cops and the introduction of a new code of police that basically just looks to knickle and dime the population, a botched and poorly thought out police operation on a dangerous street of the city (which dispersed a lot of crime related to gangs all over the city) has resulted in a Bogota that has regressed so much that it wouldn't be weird if Pablo Escobar came back from the grave and started planting bombs all over again. Thanks Capitalism.
 
CT Phipps said:
I find it kind of baffling you think what I'm describing isn't nightmarish. I literally am describing a situation WORSE than yours by magnitudes because it's a populace destroyed by apathy and not even CARING enough to revolt.
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Than you have to explain that more in detail, because this kind of 'apathy' is what we see already today I think - and I doubt people would stay apathetic for long with such a magnitude of issues. I mean people who just sit around in a kind of depression just wither away, but people with some agenda, with some hate/frustration AND a target? That can be really dangerous, and it often takes only a small spark to start something really big if you have a very large group that's seriously desperate for change - any change!
Because I honestly can not see how your scenario is worse than one where people would be runing around and killing rich people, politicans simply all of the 'elites', you know French revolution style. I am not saying that this HAS to happen in the United States, but the US is certainly not 'immune' from falling apart. No nation or empire is. I mean I am sure the Romans also thought that they will reighn for like, ever.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Than you have to explain that more in detail, because this kind of 'apathy' is what we see already today I think - and I doubt people would stay apathetic for long with such a magnitude of issues. I mean people who just sit around in a kind of depression just wither away, but people with some agenda, with some hate/frustration AND a target? That can be really dangerous, and it often takes only a small spark to start something really big.
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Basically, America's financial crisis has been ongoing for decades and has well past the point people should be out in the streets and angry beyond reason. The destruction of the American steel industry, auto industry, the coal industry, and countless other infrastructure jobs have basically passed with no real commentary. America was at the vanguard of losing jobs to robotics and has lost most of them.

And people just let it happen.

It's...so incredibly depressing.

Because I honestly can not see how your scenario is worse than one where people would be runing around and killing rich people, politicans simply all of the 'elites', you know French revolution style. I am not saying that this HAS to happen in the United States, but the US is certainly not 'immune' from falling apart. No nation or empire is. I mean I am sure the Romans also thought that they will reighn for like, ever.
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I think it's because of our views of the French Revolution may be slightly different as it was a good thing overall, The bloodshed of the Reign of Terror was awful but it also ended slavery, reformed France's economy, and would have done much better for building a free and just society if not for Napoleon's counter revolution where he rolled back a large number of those reforms.

Including slavery.

We NEED anger, we need FURY, and we need people FIGHTING for their rights when people are losing them left and right to a slow erosion which the masses often seem to support.
 
In Crnis case, UBI would most likely be one of the results of 40 percent or more unemployment.

Keep in mind however Crni that in your scenario, we have apparently gotten so efficient with science and technology, especially in the field of robotics, that UBI would be a LOGICAL step.

Much like in the Animatrix or antiquities of Dune have already explained, stuff like UBI is much easier to put into effect when your primary labor force consists of machines.

This only adds to my view that science and tech will eventually bring us there. The issue is lefties trying to use FORCE to push a SOCIALIST agenda and make a utopia happen NOW.

Idiocracy:

It is a fucking movie guys. OFCOURSE stupid people aren't going to breed smart people into extinction.

It is satire about not only how bad a flawed educational system is but how the effect is going to be perpetually compounded if nothing is done about it. Society slowly values education less while primitivism gains traction unabated.

See how much of a problem this is? I merely mention how education effects poverty and Crni goes on about grain consumption and climate change, etc. it is like the mere mention of education gets the lefties all triggered.
 
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The most realistic future I saw in fiction was Deus Ex where the technology had reached the post-scarcity levels but the social pressures and greed meant almost none of that reached the public who had massive homelessness as well as criminal problems.
 
People are not saying anything because a majority of the U.S. population still has things GOOD. I mean how hard is that to understand? Are the lefties here seriously trying to compare America today to fucking serfdom in Russia or an abusive monarchy in France?? The Russian and French revolutions happened duing a time when the world was INCREDIBLY different. Things today are NOWEHERE near the same.



Here goes the posts of a couple of bad places in and the blanket statements that it is like that throughout the U.S.
 
Yes, things are not there yet, but there is no rule that says it can't get worse that's the point. Many argue, it can't happen here. Why? Cuz U-S-A-! U-S-A-! U-S-A-! Like as it's to big to fail. But I think that is a dangerous mentality, as history can always repeat it self.

DarkCorp said:
If Crnis case, UBI would most likely be one of the results of 40 percent or more unemployment.

Keep in mind however Crni that in your scenario, we have apparently gotten so efficient with science and technology, especially in the field of robotics, that UBI would be a LOGICAL step.

Much like in the Animatrix or antiquities of Dune have already explained, stuff like UBI is much easier to put into effect when your primary labor force consists of machines.

This only adds to my view that science and tech will eventually bring us there. The issue is lefties trying to use FORCE to push a SOCIALIST agenda and make a utopia happen NOW.
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All I am saying is, it should be at least tested somewhere so that we can see if it is a logical step. That's the biggest problem with UBI right now. You can not argue against it or for it, as there are no reliable data available that could be actually used to discuss it. It's just an 'idea' on the table right now which sounds good for me, but I have no clue if it is actually good. It's like a recipe for a cake, you have to bake it and taste it to see if is actually a good cake that you can sell or use for something.
 
CT Phipps said:
The most realistic future I saw in fiction was Deus Ex where the technology had reached the post-scarcity levels but the social pressures and greed meant almost none of that reached the public who had massive homelessness as well as criminal problems.
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YOUR version of a realistic future that ALSO happens to COINCIDE with your political views.

Same with mine however.

I mean there are going to be some serious ROBOTISIZATION if machines are going to cause over 40 percent unemployment, which was what Crnis argument WAS about, machines putting humans out of a job.
 
Crni Vuk said:
All I am saying is, it should be at least tested somewhere so that we can see if it is a logical step. That's the biggest problem with UBI right now. You can not argue against it or for it, as there are no reliable data available that could be actually used to discuss it. It's just an 'idea' on the table right now which sounds good for me, but I have no clue if it is actually good. It's like a recipe for a cake, you have to bake it and taste it to see if is actually a good cake that you can sell or use for something.
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I don't think we are going to need to test UBI in your hypothetical future Crni. If robots are going to be numerous enough to put over half a nations population out of a job, we have gotten pretty close to the kind of utopianism that the Animatrix talks about, well, until the machines decide to get tired of working for us and declare war.
 
Why is my future 'hypothetical'? The idea that 40% of the jobs dissapear isn't simply some crazy idea. Very respectable universities and people at Silicon Valley predict this, people that actually work on the technology right now. Does it have to be true? Of course not ... but I think it has some weight when very intelligent and knowledgeable people say that it is very likely.
And a test of UBI would be important because it can be used as an argument. I like the idea, but I am not so crazy to implement something before we hadn't the chance to test it, particularly if it's possible to test it.
 
Walpknut said:
"Things can't possibly be bad because I have it good!"
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The question some here were positing was:

"Why aren't people having REVOLUTIONS, ala French or Russian?'

Answer:

Obviously shit hasn't gotten that bad to where people would rather have total anarchy than law and order due to their current economic status.

But Walpknut cannot be wrong so it must be everyone else is wrong.
 
@Crni Vuk

Because that is all it will ever be until it actually happens.

In regards to UBI, fine, I am not going to rule out testing but I doubt it will encounter much opposition when robots are doing most of our work for us. I mean humans are pretty selfish and lazy so what better way to use machine labor than as an excuse to benefit people.
 
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Yeeeaaah ... but you certainly agree that some predictions don't take a degree in rocket science. Like when you look at what for example what robots can do already now - and what scientists say they are capable of, it's not so far away to assume that most if not all of transportation will be done by robots at some point. I mean it is already happening NOW, there are grocery stores in Japan that require almost no humans anymore to run them, web articles are already writen by machines, computers can compose and do a lot of more stuff. This isn't just guess work or science fiction, it's extrapolation, unless the world ends in some catastrophe it is pretty much bound to happen at some point, that a lot of tasks which are done by people now, will be eventually done by machines.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Why is my future 'hypothetical'? The idea that 40% of the jobs dissapear isn't simply some crazy idea. Very respectable universities and people at Silicon Valley predict this, people that actually work on the technology right now. Does it have to be true? Of course not ... but I think it has some weight when very intelligent and knowledgeable people say that it is very likely.
And a test of UBI would be important because it can be used as an argument. I like the idea, but I am not so crazy to implement something before we hadn't the chance to test it, particularly if it's possible to test it.
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It's confusing to me because it's been happening and has happened in certain areas. It's not news in my area but a fact of life.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Yeeeaaah ... but you certainly agree that some predictions don't take a degree in rocket science. Like when you look at what for example what robots can do already now - and what scientists say they are capable of, it's not so far away to assume that most if not all of transportation will be done by robots at some point. I mean it is already happening NOW, there are grocery stores in Japan that require almost no humans anymore to run them, web articles are already writen by machines, computers can compose and do a lot of more stuff. This isn't just guess work or science fiction, it's extrapolation, unless the world ends in some catastrophe it is pretty much bound to happen at some point, that a lot of tasks which are done by people now, will be eventually done by machines.
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Again, I am not saying what your talking about is preposterous. If anything I agree. I guess you can say I am arguing semantics but, by definition, until it comes to pass (remember, you said a situation where 40 percent of a nations or worlds population is unemployed and replaced by machines), your scenario will remain a hypothesis.

@CT Phipps

Again the same. CT you are mentioning maybe your CITY, not STATE and certainly, not the NATION.
 
DarkCorp said:
@CT Phipps

Again the same. CT you are mentioning maybe your CITY, not STATE and certainly, not the NATION.
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What I'm saying is that I am mentioning my city as a personal experience but I have seen it happen to much of the state of Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee region. It's also more or less happened to large sections of the United States dependent on the manufacturing industry.

I guess what I'm saying is I believe this is not a NEW problem and it's coming off as kind of weird people think it is. It's one Americans have been dealing with for decades. Indeed, part of the reason Hillary Clinton wasn't elected.
 
There will be a shift towards more highly skilled jobs. Somebody has to make and program these machines after all.
The problem is that large parts of the Left don't really understand what "skilled" means, and think that any "university degree" means that this person is now a skilled intellectual. Preparing for this future by just shelling out bullshit degrees helps nobody.
What we need is an appreciation for skilled manual labour and artistic, individual products. Almost no new house or flat has stucco plasterwork anymore. People became too cheap to pay for it, and now barely anyone knows how to make that stuff. Make brass ornamental work and stucco great again! Tailored suits for everyday use! Hand-made lustres and furniture!
 
Hassknecht said:
There will be a shift towards more highly skilled jobs. Somebody has to make and program these machines after all.
The problem is that large parts of the Left don't really understand what "skilled" means, and think that any "university degree" means that this person is now a skilled intellectual. Preparing for this future by just shelling out bullshit degrees helps nobody.
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What exactly is a bullshit degree? Even back when I was in the uni there was some animosity between the different departments, I never really understood it. I think there should be more removing of the various barriers in universities and enable co-operation rather then eliminate entire branches of knowledge.

What we need is an appreciation for skilled manual labour and artistic, individual products. Almost no new house or flat has stucco plasterwork anymore. People became too cheap to pay for it, and now barely anyone knows how to make that stuff. Make brass ornamental work and stucco great again! Tailored suits for everyday use! Hand-made lustres and furniture!
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Plenty of stuff like that in eastern European nations. All they need are paying customers.
 
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