The Sino-American War: A Matter of Months Or Years?

[Dr Fallout]

But why would Russia send support? It was stated that the resource shortage was global. I doubt the russians would share what little they have.

Allied attempt at America. Remember both sides needed America's energy and tech to survive. The war was based on a last ditch attempt, hence it's not that strange that Russia would send support.

Though going back to Fallout 1, we see the Granddaughter of the Soviet Union's senior consular representative in San Francisco, being let into Vault 13. This alone, would allude to the fact that there was a level of detente between the Soviet Union and the United States, and due to this, I doubt the Soviets would have been particularly interested in aiding the PRC, when they no doubt had riots and issues of their own, in the Warsaw Pact nations.

Yeah, you're ignoring the fact that the Soviets and Americans had ambassadors and embassies in each others countries at the same time they were supporting proxies in Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan. This doesn't change the fact that they might send in weapons and supplies to the PCR.

 

[The-Artist-64]

I always imagined that Soviet-Chinese relations broke down really bad in the 2050s because China became insane with their conquest of nations. Eventually, they probably tried to take Kazakhstan which started the Sino-Soviet War. In 2066, China made the wrong move and invaded eastern Alaska. The idiot commies awoke a sleeping giant.

Once America joined forces with an unlikely ally, the Soviets, the two quickly took back Australia, the Philippines, Mongolia, South Vietnam, South Korea, etc. (North Korea and North Vietnam joined China willingly). The Chinese were pushed back to Beijing by the allied forces of the Warsaw Pact nations and what remained of NATO (seeing as Europe was a mess of trenches and warring nations by that time). Then, of course, in 2077, we have all out nuclear war.

Overall, I'd say the 'years' concept works better. Additionally, for this timeline to work, China couldn't have had any of their free market reforms in the 1970s. I'd have to say that GNN made an error and President Xin was actually Chairman Xin.

 

[Dr Fallout]

I always imagined that Soviet-Chinese relations broke down really bad in the 2050s because China became insane with their conquest of nations. Eventually, they probably tried to take Kazakhstan which started the Sino-Soviet War. In 2066, China made the wrong move and invaded eastern Alaska. The idiot commies awoke a sleeping giant.

Once America joined forces with an unlikely ally, the Soviets, the two quickly took back Australia, the Philippines, Mongolia, South Vietnam, South Korea, etc. (North Korea and North Vietnam joined China willingly). The Chinese were pushed back to Beijing by the allied forces of the Warsaw Pact nations and what remained of NATO (seeing as Europe was a mess of trenches and warring nations by that time). Then, of course, in 2077, we have all out nuclear war.

Overall, I'd say the 'years' concept works better. Additionally, for this timeline to work, China couldn't have had any of their free market reforms in the 1970s. I'd have to say that GNN made an error and President Xin was actually Chairman Xin.

Nice fanon, but sadly that's all it is. Personally I think that the Soviet Union became more self centered, like in real life where the USSR was more interested in improving it's relations and economy then taking over the world (yes kiddies, world domination was NOT their goal). However when the Chinese invaded, Russia sent support as it's country started collapsing in a desperate attempt to keep the USSR alive.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

I always imagined that Soviet-Chinese relations broke down really bad in the 2050s because China became insane with their conquest of nations. Eventually, they probably tried to take Kazakhstan which started the Sino-Soviet War. In 2066, China made the wrong move and invaded eastern Alaska. The idiot commies awoke a sleeping giant.

Once America joined forces with an unlikely ally, the Soviets, the two quickly took back Australia, the Philippines, Mongolia, South Vietnam, South Korea, etc. (North Korea and North Vietnam joined China willingly). The Chinese were pushed back to Beijing by the allied forces of the Warsaw Pact nations and what remained of NATO (seeing as Europe was a mess of trenches and warring nations by that time). Then, of course, in 2077, we have all out nuclear war.

Overall, I'd say the 'years' concept works better. Additionally, for this timeline to work, China couldn't have had any of their free market reforms in the 1970s. I'd have to say that GNN made an error and President Xin was actually Chairman Xin.

If the US were allied with the Soviets, they probably would've toned down all the anti-Commie rhetoric. More likely is chilly relations between the US, but more or less they left eachother alone- with NATO and the UN disbanded, the US let the Soviets run hog wild across Europe in the Resource Wars. Maybe there was a bit of military adventurism in Africa and the Middle East to secure anything that could be gotten

 

[The-Artist-64]

I always imagined that Soviet-Chinese relations broke down really bad in the 2050s because China became insane with their conquest of nations. Eventually, they probably tried to take Kazakhstan which started the Sino-Soviet War. In 2066, China made the wrong move and invaded eastern Alaska. The idiot commies awoke a sleeping giant.

Once America joined forces with an unlikely ally, the Soviets, the two quickly took back Australia, the Philippines, Mongolia, South Vietnam, South Korea, etc. (North Korea and North Vietnam joined China willingly). The Chinese were pushed back to Beijing by the allied forces of the Warsaw Pact nations and what remained of NATO (seeing as Europe was a mess of trenches and warring nations by that time). Then, of course, in 2077, we have all out nuclear war.

Overall, I'd say the 'years' concept works better. Additionally, for this timeline to work, China couldn't have had any of their free market reforms in the 1970s. I'd have to say that GNN made an error and President Xin was actually Chairman Xin.

If the US were allied with the Soviets, they probably would've toned down all the anti-Commie rhetoric. More likely is chilly relations between the US, but more or less they left eachother alone- with NATO and the UN disbanded, the US let the Soviets run hog wild across Europe in the Resource Wars. Maybe there was a bit of military adventurism in Africa and the Middle East to secure anything that could be gotten

I'd guess that it was never an official alliance, both countries were fighting their own war against the Chinese, but both had the same goal in mind. There wouldn't be a Soviet consulate in L.A. anyways if the relationship between the two wasn't warm, so I'd say that my explanation is the closest thing to canon.

Outside of the modern games, where is the anti-communist propaganda all that prevalent? All I see is anti-Chinese, not anti-communist.

The Middle East's oil fields were completely dried up and/or set alight before the European Commonwealth could even take them. That, and there was limited nuclear exchange in the Middle East pretty early on, so I'd say it's a barren wasteland with nothing worth acquiring. That, and it's almost certain that the Europeans and the Soviet Union didn't like each other at all, what with the Commonwealth hugging the border of the iron curtain. Nowhere was this likely more prevalent than the Berlin Wall. The Cold War probably eventually boiled down from U.S. versus U.S.S.R. to E.C. versus U.S.S.R.

As a completely unrelated side note, I get the feeling Francoism never left Spain.

Nice fanon, but sadly that's all it is. Personally I think that the Soviet Union became more self centered, like in real life where the USSR was more interested in improving it's relations and economy then taking over the world (yes kiddies, world domination was NOT their goal). However when the Chinese invaded, Russia sent support as it's country started collapsing in a desperate attempt to keep the USSR alive.

Sounds like someone is a bit of a commie.

 

[Dr Fallout]

I always imagined that Soviet-Chinese relations broke down really bad in the 2050s because China became insane with their conquest of nations. Eventually, they probably tried to take Kazakhstan which started the Sino-Soviet War. In 2066, China made the wrong move and invaded eastern Alaska. The idiot commies awoke a sleeping giant.

Once America joined forces with an unlikely ally, the Soviets, the two quickly took back Australia, the Philippines, Mongolia, South Vietnam, South Korea, etc. (North Korea and North Vietnam joined China willingly). The Chinese were pushed back to Beijing by the allied forces of the Warsaw Pact nations and what remained of NATO (seeing as Europe was a mess of trenches and warring nations by that time). Then, of course, in 2077, we have all out nuclear war.

Overall, I'd say the 'years' concept works better. Additionally, for this timeline to work, China couldn't have had any of their free market reforms in the 1970s. I'd have to say that GNN made an error and President Xin was actually Chairman Xin.

If the US were allied with the Soviets, they probably would've toned down all the anti-Commie rhetoric. More likely is chilly relations between the US, but more or less they left eachother alone- with NATO and the UN disbanded, the US let the Soviets run hog wild across Europe in the Resource Wars. Maybe there was a bit of military adventurism in Africa and the Middle East to secure anything that could be gotten

I'd guess that it was never an official alliance, both countries were fighting their own war against the Chinese, but both had the same goal in mind. There wouldn't be a Soviet consulate in L.A. anyways if the relationship between the two wasn't warm, so I'd say that my explanation is the closest thing to canon.

Outside of the modern games, where is the anti-communist propaganda all that prevalent? All I see is anti-Chinese, not anti-communist.

The Middle East's oil fields were completely dried up and/or set alight before the European Commonwealth could even take them. That, and there was limited nuclear exchange in the Middle East pretty early on, so I'd say it's a barren wasteland with nothing worth acquiring. That, and it's almost certain that the Europeans and the Soviet Union didn't like each other at all, what with the Commonwealth hugging the border of the iron curtain. Nowhere was this likely more prevalent than the Berlin Wall. The Cold War probably eventually boiled down from U.S. versus U.S.S.R. to E.C. versus U.S.S.R.

As a completely unrelated side note, I get the feeling Francoism never left Spain.

Nice fanon, but sadly that's all it is. Personally I think that the Soviet Union became more self centered, like in real life where the USSR was more interested in improving it's relations and economy then taking over the world (yes kiddies, world domination was NOT their goal). However when the Chinese invaded, Russia sent support as it's country started collapsing in a desperate attempt to keep the USSR alive.

Sounds like someone is a bit of a commie.

Am I?

 

[DarkCorp]

It seems to me that you DR, are a bit too heavily against a good relation situation between the US and SU.

This is fiction after all.

And yes, most likely, chinese annexations would have eventually put it at odds with the SU, kind of the opposite of what happened in our universe.

 

[Dr Fallout]

It seems to me that you DR, are a bit too heavily against a good relation situation between the US and SU.

This is fiction after all.

And yes, most likely, chinese annexations would have eventually put it at odds with the SU, kind of the opposite of what happened in our universe.

Personally I don't see it working. Especially with the whole anti-communist propaganda.

 

[The-Artist-64]

It seems to me that you DR, are a bit too heavily against a good relation situation between the US and SU.

This is fiction after all.

And yes, most likely, chinese annexations would have eventually put it at odds with the SU, kind of the opposite of what happened in our universe.

Personally I don't see it working. Especially with the whole anti-communist propaganda.

For the Soviet Union to have survived into 2077, it would have to have had a LOT of reforms to stay afloat. China, meanwhile, likely never underwent these reforms.

Again, where was the anti-communist propaganda outside of the modern games? I see only anti-Chinese.

 

[Dr Fallout]

It seems to me that you DR, are a bit too heavily against a good relation situation between the US and SU.

This is fiction after all.

And yes, most likely, chinese annexations would have eventually put it at odds with the SU, kind of the opposite of what happened in our universe.

Personally I don't see it working. Especially with the whole anti-communist propaganda.

For the Soviet Union to have survived into 2077, it would have to have had a LOT of reforms to stay afloat. China, meanwhile, likely never underwent these reforms.

Again, where was the anti-communist propaganda outside of the modern games? I see only anti-Chinese.

I was talking about the modern games about the propaganda.

 

[The-Artist-64]

It seems to me that you DR, are a bit too heavily against a good relation situation between the US and SU.

This is fiction after all.

And yes, most likely, chinese annexations would have eventually put it at odds with the SU, kind of the opposite of what happened in our universe.

Personally I don't see it working. Especially with the whole anti-communist propaganda.

For the Soviet Union to have survived into 2077, it would have to have had a LOT of reforms to stay afloat. China, meanwhile, likely never underwent these reforms.

Again, where was the anti-communist propaganda outside of the modern games? I see only anti-Chinese.

I was talking about the modern games about the propaganda.

Those don't count. They're written by people who skimmed over the game's synopsis on Wikipedia.

New Vegas, of course, is an exception. I'd assume that the errors in canon could be traced back to Bethesda's meddling.

 

[DarkCorp]

Well, my argument runs on the non-beth role. Who likes geths retcons anyways?

 

[Dr Fallout]

It seems to me that you DR, are a bit too heavily against a good relation situation between the US and SU.

This is fiction after all.

And yes, most likely, chinese annexations would have eventually put it at odds with the SU, kind of the opposite of what happened in our universe.

Personally I don't see it working. Especially with the whole anti-communist propaganda.

For the Soviet Union to have survived into 2077, it would have to have had a LOT of reforms to stay afloat. China, meanwhile, likely never underwent these reforms.

Again, where was the anti-communist propaganda outside of the modern games? I see only anti-Chinese.

I was talking about the modern games about the propaganda.

Those don't count. They're written by people who skimmed over the game's synopsis on Wikipedia.

New Vegas, of course, is an exception. I'd assume that the errors in canon could be traced back to Bethesda's meddling.

Fair enough. I still think that the Soviets would help the Chinese, especially as they gain nothing if they do nothing. America wasn't giving their power secrets away, so Russia could try to get them by helping China.

 

[RetroAmerica]

It seems to me that you DR, are a bit too heavily against a good relation situation between the US and SU.

This is fiction after all.

And yes, most likely, chinese annexations would have eventually put it at odds with the SU, kind of the opposite of what happened in our universe.

Personally I don't see it working. Especially with the whole anti-communist propaganda.

For the Soviet Union to have survived into 2077, it would have to have had a LOT of reforms to stay afloat. China, meanwhile, likely never underwent these reforms.

Again, where was the anti-communist propaganda outside of the modern games? I see only anti-Chinese.

I was talking about the modern games about the propaganda.

Those don't count. They're written by people who skimmed over the game's synopsis on Wikipedia.

New Vegas, of course, is an exception. I'd assume that the errors in canon could be traced back to Bethesda's meddling.

Fair enough. I still think that the Soviets would help the Chinese, especially as they gain nothing if they do nothing. America wasn't giving their power secrets away, so Russia could try to get them by helping China.

The KGB have a proud tradition of stealing vital research information, why would they need to ally themselves with the PRC?

 

[Dr Fallout]

It seems to me that you DR, are a bit too heavily against a good relation situation between the US and SU.

This is fiction after all.

And yes, most likely, chinese annexations would have eventually put it at odds with the SU, kind of the opposite of what happened in our universe.

Personally I don't see it working. Especially with the whole anti-communist propaganda.

For the Soviet Union to have survived into 2077, it would have to have had a LOT of reforms to stay afloat. China, meanwhile, likely never underwent these reforms.

Again, where was the anti-communist propaganda outside of the modern games? I see only anti-Chinese.

I was talking about the modern games about the propaganda.

Those don't count. They're written by people who skimmed over the game's synopsis on Wikipedia.

New Vegas, of course, is an exception. I'd assume that the errors in canon could be traced back to Bethesda's meddling.

Fair enough. I still think that the Soviets would help the Chinese, especially as they gain nothing if they do nothing. America wasn't giving their power secrets away, so Russia could try to get them by helping China.

The KGB have a proud tradition of stealing vital research information, why would they need to ally themselves with the PRC?

Because they might fail or be unable to do so? Also keep in mind that there might be political reasons, such as being allies already.

 

[TorontoReign]

One thing about Bethesda I have liked is they show more about this conflict. The bad thing is they added cyber-ninjas.

 

[Atomic Postman]

Personally, I find a short-Falklands style campaign that was spearheaded by the U.S.A's newest weapon, Power Armor, that leads to the ignition of an already decade spanning Cold War to be more fitting of the setting than a prolonged conflict. The Mccarthy-esque Communist paranoia is more effective that way.

 

[DarkCorp]

I am pretty sure the chinese had very few problems with getting their hands on PA. While tough, its not unstoppable. If NCR can get it from BoS.....

The secrets on the a-bomb, arguable the greatest american secret weapon, was compromised by SU spies, in real life. I am sure the KGB had no problems digging up schematics.

The thing is, when it comes to real life, its often less about GETTING the plans and more about what one needs to do AFTER getting them.

The 'snowy owl', chinese stealth fighter looks an aweful lot like the F-22. The thing is, the chinese still need to know how to get the proper materials to make it correctly, the budget to mass produce it, ability to repair it, etc.

 

[Someguy37]

Didn't Avellone discredit the GNN Transcript in the Bibles, because it contradicted several other things?

I know the bibles aren't canon, by Avellone's own words, but Bethesda has rolled with them in Fo3 and 4, and New Vegas used them as well. Even Feargus Urquhart described the Bibles as one of the source docs they gave to Bethesda to make their Fallout game, so apparently Obsidian does consider it canon as well.

At this point I don't think theres anything left to discredit the idea that it lasted from the winter of 2066, until the great war happened in October 2077. It was far more then just a few months.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Didn't Avellone discredited the GNN Transcript in the bibles, because it contradicted several other things?

I know the bibles aren't canon, by Avellone's own words, but Bethesda has rolled with them in Fo3 and 4, and New Vegas used them as well. Even Feargus Urquhart described the Bibles as one of the source docs they gave to Bethesda to make Fallout game, so apparently Obsidian does consider it canon as well.

At this point I don't thin theres anything left to discredit the idea that it lasted from winter of 2066 until the great war happened in October 2077. It was far more then just a few months.

Agreed here.