The Sino-American War: A Matter of Months Or Years?

I'm curious as to speculation on what sort of Main Battle Tanks that both sides were using?

The Americans wouldn't have to use as many, due to the Power Armour.

As I recall, Power Armor was supposed to be a frame to carry heavier ordnance but I'm not sure that it would be able to go muzzle to muzzle with a Chinese T-55?

I think it could, it's not a far stretch.

Well from at least what was mentioned in Van Buren the soldier that provides an escort to the Vault, informs you he's with a Mechanized Cavalry Regiment, which means they're probably acting primarily in a reconnaissance role, with a secondary role as either anti-armor or some form of "dragoon" style role.

Cavalry has always been used as shock attacks, meaning that the Power Armour were meant to be used in shock tactics, flanking the opponents and leaving only dust with their heavy firepower.

However, cavalry in the modern period has either taken on a reconnaissance role, or it has basically become armor in all but name. Power Armor, is more like "Mounted Rifles" whereby personnel ride into battle, but then fight as infantry. I'm not sure where the shock tactics are coming in though?
 
I'm curious as to speculation on what sort of Main Battle Tanks that both sides were using?

The Americans wouldn't have to use as many, due to the Power Armour.

As I recall, Power Armor was supposed to be a frame to carry heavier ordnance but I'm not sure that it would be able to go muzzle to muzzle with a Chinese T-55?

I think it could, it's not a far stretch.

Well from at least what was mentioned in Van Buren the soldier that provides an escort to the Vault, informs you he's with a Mechanized Cavalry Regiment, which means they're probably acting primarily in a reconnaissance role, with a secondary role as either anti-armor or some form of "dragoon" style role.

Cavalry has always been used as shock attacks, meaning that the Power Armour were meant to be used in shock tactics, flanking the opponents and leaving only dust with their heavy firepower.

However, cavalry in the modern period has either taken on a reconnaissance role, or it has basically become armor in all but name. Power Armor, is more like "Mounted Rifles" whereby personnel ride into battle, but then fight as infantry. I'm not sure where the shock tactics are coming in though?

I could see it, heavily armored warriors hitting your flank would be deadly and a blow to morale.
 
Power Armor couldn't stand up to tank rounds imo. It isn't used like that.
 
Power Armor couldn't stand up to tank rounds imo. It isn't used like that.
But also it's very hard to hit a man sized target with a tank cannon. Tanks are faster in a drag race, but the power armored trooper would be more agile while also wielding anti-tank weaponry. A tank would be loath to go toe to toe with something like that.
 
It seems to me that you DR, are a bit too heavily against a good relation situation between the US and SU.

This is fiction after all.

And yes, most likely, chinese annexations would have eventually put it at odds with the SU, kind of the opposite of what happened in our universe.

Personally I don't see it working. Especially with the whole anti-communist propaganda.
For the Soviet Union to have survived into 2077, it would have to have had a LOT of reforms to stay afloat. China, meanwhile, likely never underwent these reforms.

Again, where was the anti-communist propaganda outside of the modern games? I see only anti-Chinese.
In my mind I always figured in the fallout universe Nixon reproached the soviets instead of the Chinese.
 
Power Armor couldn't stand up to tank rounds imo. It isn't used like that.
But also it's very hard to hit a man sized target with a tank cannon. Tanks are faster in a drag race, but the power armored trooper would be more agile while also wielding anti-tank weaponry. A tank would be loath to go toe to toe with something like that.

Agreed but if you take into account 155mm rounds like a Howitzer fires, fired from a battery of artillery, you can definitely take down a group of Power Armored troops. Start shooting Fatman nukes out of the things and nothing would survive. :)

The tanks would be engaged in some close combat, but your artillery can lay fire down to stop them from advancing too close. If the Power Armored troops DID get the drop on anybody you can guarantee they would stomp some ass. Why they would bother when they could send in Assaultrons and Sentry *Bots. I will never know.

* I actually typed droids first instead of bots. :grin:
 
The most likely scenario is that personnel assigned power armor would be employing the "Davy Crockett" and other battlefield nuclear weapons against Chinese Armor.
 
Agreed but if you take into account 155mm rounds like a Howitzer fires, fired from a battery of artillery, you can definitely take down a group of Power Armored troops. Start shooting Fatman nukes out of the things and nothing would survive. :)

The tanks would be engaged in some close combat, but your artillery can lay fire down to stop them from advancing too close. If the Power Armored troops DID get the drop on anybody you can guarantee they would stomp some ass. Why they would bother when they could send in Assaultrons and Sentry *Bots. I will never know.

* I actually typed droids first instead of bots. :grin:

A 155mm is a nasty shell but it's largely shrapnel and concussion. It plays hell on modern infantry but the protection of power armor would negate anything other than a direct or very near miss (those inside the kill radius versus those inside the wound radius), I'd imagine.

Fatman shells and assaulttrons straight up break logic; they'd be win buttons. Sentry bots would totally depend on which version was being sent out. Fallout 3 sentry bots would be nasty as hell but Fallout 4 sentry bots with their video-game-boss-cool-down state would be laughable in actual battle.

The trouble with having fun discussions like this is that we put far more thought into it than Beth does. We used to have Fallout, Fallout 2, and the Bible. It all mostly worked and made sense back then. Now that Beth retcons huge swaths of the lore with each pass it takes at the franchise, we are stuck with a lore that makes less and less internal sense. I often find myself still defaulting to the Bible and it's original timeline for canon, but really it's half out the window now. I think that's the most frustrating thing about the Beth games, I'd be more ok with stink pots like Fo3 and 4 if they, at the very freaking least, didn't retcon the story I fell in love with way back when. But here we are.
 
Agreed but if you take into account 155mm rounds like a Howitzer fires, fired from a battery of artillery, you can definitely take down a group of Power Armored troops. Start shooting Fatman nukes out of the things and nothing would survive. :)

The tanks would be engaged in some close combat, but your artillery can lay fire down to stop them from advancing too close. If the Power Armored troops DID get the drop on anybody you can guarantee they would stomp some ass. Why they would bother when they could send in Assaultrons and Sentry *Bots. I will never know.

* I actually typed droids first instead of bots. :grin:

A 155mm is a nasty shell but it's largely shrapnel and concussion. It plays hell on modern infantry but the protection of power armor would negate anything other than a direct or very near miss (those inside the kill radius versus those inside the wound radius), I'd imagine.

This is just one way it could be used. Other rounds are available too. I wonder if depleted uranium would work? There are certain rounds we used in the Army that would penetrate through damn near anything. Excalibur was something a lot of people were fond of. The shrapnel rounds would not do much against PA as you said.

https://youtu.be/XT5jo7aZzTw

I would use something like that on a larger scale with a mobile cannon.
 
Sentry bots are wheeled though. I know in-game they can roll around up and down stairs, and charge along over rough ground, but IRL they would only really be useful for patrolling or assaulting areas with relatively even ground. Which is where power armour would come in. Capturing critical infrastructure, like power plants, factories, etc. A tank or an airstrike would have to destroy the facility, power-armoured troops could fight room-to-room.

They could also be more discerning and precise than the other methods, minimising civilian casualties, although that's not really a concern for the US in the Fallout Universe.
 
I'm curious as to speculation on what sort of Main Battle Tanks that both sides were using?

M60A1 for the US. Maybe even a fictional Abrams, with no composites and sloped armor, as well as a rifled 105.

T-55A for the USSR. Maybe even a T-64/T-72.

Some Chinese knock off T-54 for.. China.
 
This is just one way it could be used. Other rounds are available too. I wonder if depleted uranium would work? There are certain rounds we used in the Army that would penetrate through damn near anything. Excalibur was something a lot of people were fond of. The shrapnel rounds would not do much against PA as you said.

https://youtu.be/XT5jo7aZzTw

I would use something like that on a larger scale with a mobile cannon.

I have no doubt that depleted uranium would go through power armor as easily as it does modern battle tanks, but we get back to the issue of hitting a moving man-sized target with a cannon. More likely you'd want large caliber crew served weapons with AT or even HEAT rounds (.50cal or 20mm comes to mind). There are plenty of modern weapons and ordnance packages that would logically devastate power armor, I just don't think artillery or battle tanks would be among them. To my mind, this is likely why power armor units were so effective in China. If history has taught us anything it's that new battlefield technology and newly emerging tactics typically overwhelm the enemy during the first war, while the enemy tactics are adjusting to the new tech or combat styles. We see this in WWI when men are rushing, Napoleonic Wars style, against machine gun lines as well as the American Revolution and Vietnam when the traditional armies couldn't adapt to the guerrilla tactics used by enemies.

Again, though, that ground level nuke is a game changer for everything.
 
I don't think that PA can protect you from a 100mm D-10T2S [T-55's main gun] HE shell. Remember... it only protects you from 2 500 joules.
 
It seems to me that you DR, are a bit too heavily against a good relation situation between the US and SU.

This is fiction after all.

And yes, most likely, chinese annexations would have eventually put it at odds with the SU, kind of the opposite of what happened in our universe.

Personally I don't see it working. Especially with the whole anti-communist propaganda.
For the Soviet Union to have survived into 2077, it would have to have had a LOT of reforms to stay afloat. China, meanwhile, likely never underwent these reforms.

Again, where was the anti-communist propaganda outside of the modern games? I see only anti-Chinese.
In my mind I always figured in the fallout universe Nixon reproached the soviets instead of the Chinese.
Yep, that was the idea I was trying to convey.
 
I don't think that PA can protect you from a 100mm D-10T2S [T-55's main gun] HE shell. Remember... it only protects you from 2 500 joules.
I agree but at the same time a T-55 main cannon is never going to hit a moving man-sized target that is firing back at it with AT weapons and if it does manage to land a shell on one guy the other 43 are going to toast the tank in the process.
 
I don't think that PA can protect you from a 100mm D-10T2S [T-55's main gun] HE shell. Remember... it only protects you from 2 500 joules.
I agree but at the same time a T-55 main cannon is never going to hit a moving man-sized target that is firing back at it with AT weapons and if it does manage to land a shell on one guy the other 43 are going to toast the tank in the process.

Do you need to hit it directly though? HE doesn't need to directly hit the target, and it can spot the PA troops from farther distance than they can shoot the tank, and proceed to hit them with HE shells from afar.
 
High Explosive vs power armor would likely require a direct hit or a very near miss. HE rounds rely on fragmentation to kill infantry and as we've discussed, fragmentation would be easily negated by powered armor.
 
Unarmored infantry would suffer from the concussive blast within a small radius, sure. To my mind, though, power armor would negate that completely.
 
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