The writing is beyond abysmal and the first hint of this is the introduction

[Atomic Postman]

The introduction could have been easily mended by spending more time Pre-War and having a Fallout 3 style "Two weeks later" timeskip after talking to the Vault-Tec representative. Then, in the late afternoon whilst watching TV (You could have the Mister Handy advertisement from Fallout 1 here) with your spouse, the TV is interrupted by breaking news of the west coast having been annihilated by the Chinese. You rush off to the Vault in a sequence similar to the current one, but there's no nuclear explosion as you go down the lift, instead you just hear gunfire as the security forces fire off into the crowd outside the Vault. As you're suiting up in your jumpsuits, you hear booming sounds from above the ground, the vault quakes and the lights flicker, everyone looks around nervously but the Vault-Tec staff nervously reassure you that everyone is safe and tell you not to think about it.

But that wouldn't be epic enough for Bethesda's audience.

 

[randy Mc rupp]

You're the worst kind of apologist and make me sick.

What's your agenda here? OP is making very valid points.

Another example of the great, supportive community here. This is a wonderful place in which to spend one's time.

I have been a member of this community for a long time, but I never realized how caustic it actually is until I happened to mention that I like Fallout 4. I mean, I think Fallout 3 was shit because it tried to be Oblivion, and Oblivion was shit. But Fallout 4 is more like Skyrim, and Skyrim is actually quite good. But it seems that everyone here wants the new Fallout games to be in the same genre as the old ones, and I don't think that's possible. It's like asking Michael Bay to write the next chapter in Lord of the Rings. He might make a kickass new Lord of the Rings movie that captivates millions of people, and if you know what standards to go by when you watch that movie, you will have a good time. If you expect it to be like Tolkien's originals, you will be disappointed.

When you start realizing that a Fallout should try to be Fallout not something else you can try to get taken seriously again. I mean you can like what you want but don't try to bullshit us by making it look better than it actually is. You try to sell your subjective view of the game as more than it is.

I've been a member for a long time as well (actually 05 but that account is dead) and I always liked that fact about NMA.

e: And I mean I enjoy your Grognak thing and I do enjoy certain aspects of the game. But getting blinded by some elements won't do us good here. The game in its entirety as it is now is garbage.

 

[Askorti]

The introduction could have been easily mended by spending more time Pre-War and having a Fallout 3 style "Two weeks later" timeskip after talking to the Vault-Tec representative. Then, in the late afternoon whilst watching TV (You could have the Mister Handy advertisement from Fallout 1 here) with your spouse, the TV is interrupted by breaking news of the west coast having been annihilated by the Chinese. You rush off to the Vault in a sequence similar to the current one, but there's no nuclear explosion as you go down the lift, instead you just hear gunfire as the security forces fire off into the crowd outside the Vault. As you're suiting up in your jumpsuits, you hear booming sounds from above the ground, the vault quakes and the lights flicker, everyone looks around nervously but the Vault-Tec staff nervously reassure you that everyone is safe and tell you not to think about it.

But that wouldn't be epic enough for Bethesda's audience.

This would've been so much better. And I think that they even could lame the in-vault part a bit longer. I find it a bit odd that they freeze you pretty much immediately. Wouldn't they want to make a check-up on you and stuff?
And a skip-it-all button would be nice. Even the best of introductions become annoying after several times.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

I'm assuming the intro doesn't allow you to rebuild your character right after the opening so that you can save before that point and never have to play the intro again? That's at least one thing Fallout 3 did right.

 

[RedCommieBastard]

I mean, you're gonna have to play through that introduction every damn time you create a character. It shouldn't be any longer or more intricate than it is. Skyrim's intro has you sitting on a cart for 20 minutes and then schlepping through Fort Noob before you're allowed to play the game, and it's actually quite well written exposition, but everyone installs a mod to skip it.

Like you said, if you're going to replay the game lots of times, just install a mod. Saying that they did it for easy-of-use isn't a good excuse if you ask me, nor a good move.

It's been a long time since I last played Skyrim, but I remember that the writing wasn't as cringe-inducing as Fallout 4's, but rather just "meh". I don't think that you can call Rolof reminiscing about mead with berries in it or a father telling his son to go inside "well-written exposition".

The introduction could have been easily mended by spending more time Pre-War and having a Fallout 3 style "Two weeks later" timeskip after talking to the Vault-Tec representative. Then, in the late afternoon whilst watching TV (You could have the Mister Handy advertisement from Fallout 1 here) with your spouse, the TV is interrupted by breaking news of the west coast having been annihilated by the Chinese. You rush off to the Vault in a sequence similar to the current one, but there's no nuclear explosion as you go down the lift, instead you just hear gunfire as the security forces fire off into the crowd outside the Vault. As you're suiting up in your jumpsuits, you hear booming sounds from above the ground, the vault quakes and the lights flicker, everyone looks around nervously but the Vault-Tec staff nervously reassure you that everyone is safe and tell you not to think about it.

But that wouldn't be epic enough for Bethesda's audience.

This is exactly what I had in mind!

I have been a member of this community for a long time, but I never realized how caustic it actually is until I happened to mention that I like Fallout 4. I mean, I think Fallout 3 was shit because it tried to be Oblivion, and Oblivion was shit. But Fallout 4 is more like Skyrim, and Skyrim is actually quite good. But it seems that everyone here wants the new Fallout games to be in the same genre as the old ones, and I don't think that's possible. It's like asking Michael Bay to write the next chapter in Lord of the Rings. He might make a kickass new Lord of the Rings movie that captivates millions of people, and if you know what standards to go by when you watch that movie, you will have a good time. If you expect it to be like Tolkien's originals, you will be disappointed.

Hey, don't imagine me saying this with a pitchfork in my hand and a torch in the other. I'm just ranting about a video game, but that doesn't mean that I hate people who like it. Also, Skyrim never was a well-written game. It's a pretty and atmospheric, but hollow and emotionally void sandbox game. A game with horrible gameplay but excellent writing and voice acting is KOTOR2, if you ask me.

 

[Magnus]

When you start realizing that a Fallout should try to be Fallout not something else you can try to get taken seriously again. I mean you can like what you want but don't try to bullshit us by making it look better than it actually is. You try to sell your subjective view of the game as more than it is.

I've been a member for a long time as well (actually 05 but that account is dead) and I always liked that fact about NMA.

e: And I mean I enjoy your Grognak thing and I do enjoy certain aspects of the game. But getting blinded by some elements won't do us good here. The game in its entirety as it is now is garbage.

Jesus christ. Are you serious? Why do we even have a Fallout 4 forum then, if people are only allowed to have one opinion? It's not exactly progressive.

 

[DerGogan]

I'm assuming the intro doesn't allow you to rebuild your character right after the opening so that you can save before that point and never have to play the intro again? That's at least one thing Fallout 3 did right.

You can rebuild you character, right before you take the elevator up to the surface.
If you know that, than you can create a savegame there.

It's like leaving the vault tunnel in Fallout 3.

 

[AskWazzup]

Jesus christ. Are you serious? Why do we even have a Fallout 4 forum then, if people are only allowed to have one opinion? It's not exactly progressive.

Just beat them up, you are a viking, aren't you?

 

[Magnus]

Jesus christ. Are you serious? Why do we even have a Fallout 4 forum then, if people are only allowed to have one opinion? It's not exactly progressive.

Just beat them up, you are a viking, aren't you?

Even a berserker knows when he's outnumbered. I'll let people continue their harangues while I go figure out how to mod a car into the game.

 

[phipboy]

Jesus christ. Are you serious? Why do we even have a Fallout 4 forum then, if people are only allowed to have one opinion? It's not exactly progressive.

I don't think that's what he meant by that, at all.

It does seem that you care way too much about what the general opinion of NMA is instead of looking what each individual here has to say or argues

 

[Magnus]

Jesus christ. Are you serious? Why do we even have a Fallout 4 forum then, if people are only allowed to have one opinion? It's not exactly progressive.

I don't think that's what he meant by that, at all.

It does seem that you care way too much about what the general opinion of NMA is instead of looking what each individual here has to say or argues

I'm just a little shocked at the level of zealotry here. He did say that until I agree that Fallout should be "Fallout" I won't be taken seriously by "us", that sounds pretty much like he's stating his opinion to be the only true one and also the only one that is acceptable here. I don't mind him stating his terms of acceptance, but I won't agree to them.

 

[Mr Fish]

I mean, I think Fallout 3 was shit because it tried to be Oblivion, and Oblivion was shit. But Fallout 4 is more like Skyrim, and Skyrim is actually quite good.

Skyrim is way 'way' worse than Oblivion. At least Oblivion 'tried' to be an RPG. Skyrim dropped that pretence and became an excessively repetitive hack and slash sandbox hiking simulator.
I wish Fallout 4 tried to be more like Oblivion cause at least Oblivion, for all its flaws, allowed quests where you didn't have to kill anything. At least Oblivion offered some choice and consequence. At least Oblivion allowed limitations of the player character. At least Oblivion allowed multiple choices in quests. At least Oblivion had good writing at times.

For fucks sake, Skyrim and Fallout 4 suck so much anal wart infested arse that I'm praising Oblivion. That's how bad its gotten.

 

[Sn1p3r187]

So can we say Fallout 4's writing is better than Fallout 3?

 

[Walpknut]

Yes, but is still bad.

 

[Sn1p3r187]

Yes, but is still bad.

Damn, now I want Fallout 4 now for a reason to say it was better than 3.

 

[randy Mc rupp]

And I'm shocked that anyone who's not into Fallout would be on Fallout forum for almost a decade. I mean did you not get the "zealotry" when Fallout 3 was released?

Fuck man Bethesda ruined "our" favorite game and you act like it's just a thing that happened.

And yes I did say that. BY ME. Not speaking for the rest of the forum here. Fallout should be Fallout and NOT a Bethesda game. It's as easy as that.

 

[Mr Fish]

Jesus christ. Are you serious? Why do we even have a Fallout 4 forum then, if people are only allowed to have one opinion? It's not exactly progressive.

I don't think that's what he meant by that, at all.

It does seem that you care way too much about what the general opinion of NMA is instead of looking what each individual here has to say or argues

I'm just a little shocked at the level of zealotry here. He did say that until I agree that Fallout should be "Fallout" I won't be taken seriously by "us", that sounds pretty much like he's stating his opinion to be the only true one and also the only one that is acceptable here. I don't mind him stating his terms of acceptance, but I won't agree to them.

It's not zealousness(zealotry ain't a real word). It's simply about having principles and standards and respecting the concept of artistic integrity.

 

[Magnus]

I mean, I think Fallout 3 was shit because it tried to be Oblivion, and Oblivion was shit. But Fallout 4 is more like Skyrim, and Skyrim is actually quite good.

Skyrim is way 'way' worse than Oblivion. At least Oblivion 'tried' to be an RPG. Skyrim dropped that pretence and became an excessively repetitive hack and slash sandbox hiking simulator.
I wish Fallout 4 tried to be more like Oblivion cause at least Oblivion, for all its flaws, allowed quests where you didn't have to kill anything. At least Oblivion offered some choice and consequence. At least Oblivion allowed limitations of the player character. At least Oblivion allowed multiple choices in quests. At least Oblivion had good writing at times.

For fucks sake, Skyrim and Fallout 4 suck so much anal wart infest arse that I'm praising Oblivion. That's how bad its gotten.

Hm. I think we have different taste in games then. I like games that do one thing really well. The old Black Isle RPGs are the best at what they do, which is writing, choice and consequence, etc. Skyrim and Fallout 4 on the other hand do atmosphere, style, combat and exploration really well, and I for one enjoy both types of games. I don't like Oblivion or Fallout 3 because they fall somewhere in the middle between those categories, trying to do everything and failing at it. I don't see the point of trying to pretend Fallout 4 belongs in the first category, because you can't rate a movie on the same criteria as a book, but I won't make an argument out of it. We can't turn back time, so we might as well embrace Bethesda's style of games and play Mass Effect or The Witcher if we want proper RPGs.

Anyway, I forgot that you can edit your guy before you leave the vault, so they really could make the intro more fleshed out if they wanted to. I will agree that the intro is a bit short and underdeveloped as it is.

 

[Mr Fish]

We can't turn back time, so we might as well embrace Bethesda's style of games and play Mass Effect or The Witcher if we want proper RPGs.

Yeah, see that's the thing. Why should we embrace a fat-cat that buys a license and proceeds to rape its slumbered still savable body, skin it and parade around its incest-mutant spawn wearing a skin-suit? Sorry, but that ain't something I want to embrace. It is not something I find acceptable. In fact I find it unethical. I believe in art and that it should be respected. Fallout is not like Super Mario which is just a game to have fun in. Fallout is a work of art. It's not 'the best' work of art out there, but is a work of art non the less. So what Bethesda is doing is unethical in my eyes. And there is nothing I can do about it. There is no legal way to get to them or other big fat-cats that does the same. All we can do is try to voice our criticism of their practices.

Embracing Fallout 4 is like finding out someone shit in your sandwich and instead of refusing to eat it you just scoff it down and ask for seconds.

Fuck that.

[edit]

What you're asking me to do is to turn back on my principles. Unless given an incentive that proves my principles detrimental to me I have no reason to give them up.

 

[Magnus]

And one more thing! The decline in the Fallout series started WAY before Bethesda took over! Remember that buggy mess Fallout Tactics and the even worse Brotherhood of Steel? The series was dead. I lament that it was Bethesda and not Bioware who revived it, but that is what it is. I don't blame Bethesda for finally making a good Fallout game, even if it is a shoot-and-loot and not an RPG.