There is only one god

zegh8578 said:
The other day I was tracing gods/words, cus... you know, that's a thing to do when you're bored.

I looked at Jupiter. The name roots are "Diu" and "Piter" - "djupiter"
Diu is of proto Indo-European origin and is a cognate with both day and god (Dia and Deus in Latin, for example)

The Latin word for "God" in fact comes from an ancestral term for "Day" or "Daylight", Piter is obviously cognate with "Pater"/"Father"

Jupiter means "Day-Father" or sky-father, or light-father, or even "lord of the sun", he was a supreme deity to Indo-Europeans, and is the predecessor to such deities as Jupiter, Zeus (cognates with "Deus") and Tyr (who remains fairly mysterious within the Norse pantheon)

How these concepts then get associated with celestial bodies BESIDES the sun and the moon I'm not sure, but humanity have always been able to separate the visible planets (Saturn, Jupiter, Mars and Venus) from the other stars by following their unique movements across the sky.

A lot of the the gods of the different Eurasian polytheistic religions are traceable to stone-age primary figures, often originating in the Middle East or the Indus valley, in particular the primary deities. Another example is Venutian figures, who corresponds overall with gender (almost always female) as well as role (the earliest is one of my favorite goddesses, Sumerian Inanna, who was goddess of love and war in a very all-encompassing dichtonomy of life and death. She is also described with a very feminine personality, almost caricaturish, as in she is spontaneous, short-sighted and easy to offend. She has one of her ex-boyfriends raped to death by demons, and in a later story she has to be reminded of this, since she quickly forgot about it. She also destroyed a mountain because it dared to be so good looking as to challenge her own hotness.)
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Btw there's a Finnish Thor, Ukko. Ukko = (old) man. Ukkonen = thunder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukko
 
MutantScalper said:
Btw there's a Finnish Thor, Ukko. Ukko = (old) man. Ukkonen = thunder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukko
Click to expand...

Of course, it's not limited to Indo-European cultures to acknowledge thunder or weather or the sky :D

I'm just fascinated with the close relationship between language (being vital to every day life) and religion (also vital to every day life, therefore intertwined)

But Indo-European gods and languages being deeply connected does not exclude other ethnolinguistic families to observe similar deities. Those would be examples of convergence. Lightning is pretty powerful, the sun is all-powerful, the moon lights up the night and so on, these are undeniable majesties that all human cultures would relate to, in each their cultural infancy

Interesting how you treat "Ukkonen" though, another example of a convergent behavior - both cultures, linguistically separate, decide to just use the guys name as a synonym for thunder.
The english word is more derived, but Scandinavian languages call it "Torden"
 
zegh8578 said:
Of course, it's not limited to Indo-European cultures to acknowledge thunder or weather or the sky :D

I'm just fascinated with the close relationship between language (being vital to every day life) and religion (also vital to every day life, therefore intertwined)

But Indo-European gods and languages being deeply connected does not exclude other ethnolinguistic families to observe similar deities. Those would be examples of convergence. Lightning is pretty powerful, the sun is all-powerful, the moon lights up the night and so on, these are undeniable majesties that all human cultures would relate to, in each their cultural infancy

Interesting how you treat "Ukkonen" though, another example of a convergent behavior - both cultures, linguistically separate, decide to just use the guys name as a synonym for thunder.
The english word is more derived, but Scandinavian languages call it "Torden"
Click to expand...

Btw it's interesting how close Finnish, Norwegian and Sami (and Swedish) cultures have been and yet not much mixing of the three, except maybe the Sami have mixed with the Finns and Norwegians. I got some family tree stuff made, turns out I was right, I have some Norwegian heritage at least from one 'branch' of my family tree.
 
MutantScalper said:
Btw it's interesting how close Finnish, Norwegian and Sami (and Swedish) cultures have been and yet not much mixing of the three, except maybe the Sami have mixed with the Finns and Norwegians. I got some family tree stuff made, turns out I was right, I have some Norwegian heritage at least from one 'branch' of my family tree.
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Well, there's the Bothnian gulf to begin with, but there's some mixing that's maybe not that obvious. For example, all northern Norwegians have a saami accent. This is separate from actual Saamis and *their* accent, but North Norwegian has the same kind of hard accent that is found in Saami and Finnish. An equivalent sound is Finnish Swedish.

Before there was a lot more "fluidity" in the north, with both Finns and Russians residing well within todays Norwegian borders. In modernity this is a lot more "rectified", but the remnants and heritages still remain. To this day a handful of people identify as "finnskoging", forest-finns, who are no longer distinguishable from either accent or language, but used to be an ethnic separation in southern Norway.
 
zegh8578 said:
Well, there's the Bothnian gulf to begin with, but there's some mixing that's maybe not that obvious. For example, all northern Norwegians have a saami accent. This is separate from actual Saamis and *their* accent, but North Norwegian has the same kind of hard accent that is found in Saami and Finnish. An equivalent sound is Finnish Swedish.

Before there was a lot more "fluidity" in the north, with both Finns and Russians residing well within todays Norwegian borders. In modernity this is a lot more "rectified", but the remnants and heritages still remain. To this day a handful of people identify as "finnskoging", forest-finns, who are no longer distinguishable from either accent or language, but used to be an ethnic separation in southern Norway.
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Yes. Russians were cut off by the Soviet era, and by language barrier before that, Finland was under Russian rule until 1917. The Saami are now slowly trying to get their own nation going, could be tough especially getting the Russian part of Saamiland.

And yes, my relative (grandpa's father) was born in Norway but had a Finnish name.
 
MutantScalper said:
Yes. Russians were cut off by the Soviet era, and by language barrier before that, Finland was under Russian rule until 1917. The Saami are now slowly trying to get their own nation going, could be tough especially getting the Russian part of Saamiland.

And yes, my relative (grandpa's father) was born in Norway but had a Finnish name.
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Officially?
Saami have enjoyed a "theoretical" nationhood since the 90s, at least in Norway, with their "Saami parliament" whos authority extends into Sweden at least, Finland too afaik, it's a cooperation thing.
As for actual, real independence, I've never heard about any such efforts, mainly because the Saami themselves know how pointless it would be. Norway has the largest Saami population by far, upto 60 000 people, and they are completely uninterested in real independence. They DO want "self rule" and stuff like that, including preservation of language, identity, culture etc. The Saami of Russia are about 1000, and they all speak Russian afaik, so, as a culture they pretty much no longer exist there, and as such, they are indeed not officially counted by Russia as one of the many minorities there, just like the old Ingrians, they are expected to simply quit existing (by complete assimilation)
 
zegh8578 said:
Officially?
Saami have enjoyed a "theoretical" nationhood since the 90s, at least in Norway, with their "Saami parliament" whos authority extends into Sweden at least, Finland too afaik, it's a cooperation thing.
As for actual, real independence, I've never heard about any such efforts, mainly because the Saami themselves know how pointless it would be. Norway has the largest Saami population by far, upto 60 000 people, and they are completely uninterested in real independence. They DO want "self rule" and stuff like that, including preservation of language, identity, culture etc. The Saami of Russia are about 1000, and they all speak Russian afaik, so, as a culture they pretty much no longer exist there, and as such, they are indeed not officially counted by Russia as one of the many minorities there, just like the old Ingrians, they are expected to simply quit existing (by complete assimilation)
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Yes. All you say is true. The Ingrians had a "right of return" to Finland, just like the Karelians. Never met any of them IRL. I have met some Saami folks. I came across several herds of reindeer up north when I was there recently. Reindeer husbandry (sounds sketchy I know) is how many of the Saami and Laplander Finns make a living.

The Saami are building some 'parliament' etc. buildings in the far north of Finland. I think they do want something a bit more serious than just self rule.
 
To bring this Saami side track back on topic like a mofo, here's a link about Saami religions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_shamanism

Shamans, that's right up the Saami alley. They got those drums made of reindeer skin, just like the US natives have drums they beat made from animal skins. They throw animal bones on the drums and predict the future etc., there are like 'zones' on the surface of the drum and the bones land on the zones and thus they predict the future etc.

Saami drum.

800px-Sami_shamanic_drum.JPG
 
Somehow reminds me of this goldie:


In my book, a whole lot of what he says there is damn true. Like how we desire judgement of ourselves or how "god was the dream of a good government".
 
I’m polytheistic but I like to think that whichever god(s) you believe or don’t believe in everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. Personally I don’t give half a dick what religion someone follows; if they’re a judgmental prick I’ll call em out on it. If they’re a good person, then I’ll like em most likely.

Basically what I’m saying is that I support your right to try to spread your religion, but I reserve my right to gratuitously and politely decline. Now, if you were declaring Holy Jihad and saying “convert or die heathen” we would have words.

I was gonna say we would have fists but I can’t fight you over the Internet so I’d have to settle for a strongly worded rant about how holy war helps no one but the Church higher-ups who pocket the loot earned by young, idealistic believers going out to fight and die for their God.

This has become a meaningless rant in and of itself; hopefully you all get what I’m saying.

TL;DR
1) Don’t judge people
2) You have the right to spread your religion, so long as you refer to 1 and 3
3) Don’t declare Jihad
4) Welcome to the Rice Fields, muthafucka
5) Holy War, like all other war, only serves to make the fat cats fatter. Don’t Holy War. Holy War is bad. Refer to 3.
 
Gods are fake. Masterbation is fun. Live your fucking life because despite what you may believe, you aren't guaranteed shit after the lights go out.
 
There is indeed only one true god and its probably Allah because the universe started with an explosion.
 
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There's a religion that worships a flying spaghetti monster or some shit like that.

There's also one on Reddit that worships Nicholas Cage. Not sure if it still exists.
 
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