Things that Fallout 3 did right!

How it is where? There are plenty of schools with mostly black kids and a few white kids, and the schools I went to were about 60% Asian. Films and games about those kinds of places largely don't get paid for by major studios and marketed to the mainstream, though, because "that's not how it is." Kind of self-perpetuating, neh? Which is why representation matters. I've especially never understood why people are willing to accept dragons or nuclear abominations or starfighters but the instant you ask why more of the starfighter pilots can't be women or Space Mexicans it's suddenly all about "realism."

That's probably an issue for a different thread in a different forum, though. F3 didn't do poorly as far as representation is concerned, at least by industry standards.
Not what I meant. I just used that as an example, like its that way in the school I used in my example. I know there's schools that are different, I went to a school with probably 90% Asians. I meant that some people call something racist or racially unequal just cause there's mostly white characters which really isn't a problem in a game. Its just how it is there's more white companions in new vegas I don't really think about the characters race.
 
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Oh, I didn't mean to tar you with a racist brush, and I doubt that you've got any more control over who or what goes into a game than I do, so apologies if I came off as strident. I merely meant to point out that representation matters a lot more to people who aren't typically represented, and that the entertainment industry itself tends to deflect with "why should it matter what race our characters are?" and then give the lie to it by making them overwhelmingly of one race. If there was nothing weighting that particular coin toss, you'd think it'd come down on "nonwhite" for the speaking roles a little more often. America is only about half-white these days anyway, and the numbers are dwindling. It's as much a question of true realism in media as it is a social issue.

Edit: And strides are being made, especially in gaming. And, again, nothing against you. Just sounding off on the state of things, since the issue was raised.
 
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Alright as promised, I'll post the things that I personally liked about Fallout 3, what I feel it did "right" and why I still enjoy this game, even in the presence of New Vegas (and sometimes in spite of).


Atmosphere

Fallout 3 had a very post apocalyptic atmosphere; more than that of New Vegas. I liked that it seemed people really were struggling to survive as one would expect in a post apocalyptic environment. Life didn't seem too easy for the settlements and the population. You really got the feel of how hard and harsh things are in the wasteland. Then there is the dismal tone throughout, you just feel like every second you stand around, you are risking something nasty finding you! So the atmosphere of FO3, I felt, was handled correctly.

FO3 also FELT like Fallout. It really did, at least to me. It captured the old 50's era really well, with all those protectrons running around, the pre-war clothes, the posters, the vehicles themselves the building designs...it really captured the feel that FO and FO2 tried to bring; you could easily believe that this world ended with a 50s era mindset and (for the most part) tech. That right there, a large part of the original Fallout games' atmosphere, was very well carried over in FO3.


Random Encounters


Everyone talks about how New Vegas is so superior to FO3. But New Vegas lacks TRUE Random Encounters. In FO3, you could run into a Deathclaw right outside of Megaton if you got unlucky enough. Encounters were very much random in the sense of you never knowing for sure what you would run into. Yeah, they occurred only at certain points on the map, but still; what you would find could be anyone's guess, from a wandering merchant to a pair of pissed off Yao Guai.


VATS

It took some getting used to, but I liked the Vats system. I'm glad they did away with the reduced damage during VATS that they had in NV, but the system itself is wonderful. I've found myself wishing for such a system in Skyrim a time or two, when I throw a ball of fire and kill an unintended target (a civilian more than once, damn them!). I also like how VATS used AP, and it was reminiscent of the aimed shots from the old school FO games. A nice way to adapt such a system into a third person/first person shooter. Now, if they just gave you motivation to aim for more than just the head--but this was an issue even in the early FO games, where you had little reason to aim at more than just the eyes. So for me, VATS is another thing that FO3 did right.


Characters

Yes, I said characters. There were a few wonderfully done characters that were both entertaining and likeable. Moira Brown probably my favorite FO character of all. Quirky, fun, and a blast to go on completing her Wasteland Survival Guide. I always enjoyed those quests and the incredibly hilarious dialogue options you were able to have throughout. Then there was Fawkes, who was interesting as a character--not just a clone of Marcus either. And the always good for a laugh Mr. Gutsy. Dukov was a fun character too, as was that scientist when you enter that simulation (I forgot the name of it) while looking for your dad. Some of the characters were every bit as entertaining and fun as those in FO1 and FO2 (if not moreso). I think they did the characters right (for the most part), even if the plot itself was fairly weak.


Weapon selection

So many guns to choose from. Hunting rifle, gatling, the famous gatling laser, plasma rifle, .32 pistol, Fatman, laser rifle, Super Sledge, Assault Rifle, combat shotgun...There were so many damn guns to play around with in this game!! My only complaint is that alot of them were inferior to the first two weapons you are likely to get: your 10mm pistol and a hunting rifle. Those two can get you through a good chunk of the game, then you can move up to the combat shotgun and AR or Sniper Rifle, and as far as small guns go, you're good the rest of the game. Still, regardless of how useful the different guns were, you had a LOT to choose from, and they did that damn right. Many of them were amazing versions of the old FO games too--I was especially impressed with the Plasma rifle. I think they improved that one, it uses a Big Gun animation in FO2; I'm happy to see it looking like what it is in FO3 and NV: a RIFLE.


Enemies

There was a nice selection of things trying to kill you, some old and some new. The Deathclaws were BADASS, exactly how I would've imagined them to be from the old FO games. A little disappointing you didn't see packs of like 20 radscorpions but then again, as strong as the giant variety were in FO3...you wouldn't *want* to deal with more than a couple at a time, and even that was a pain in the ass. Then you had raiders, molerats (the small variety), ghouls (Feral and non-feral)...and the brand new Yao Guai. Could there have been more enemies? Sure, but then again, the wilds were filled with them with the ones they had. Always felt dangerous, venturing out, especially if you were going into the mountains!


Exploration


A large part of FO1 and FO2 was exploration. This only became even more emphasized in FO3. With the first two games, there was a SHITLOAD to find if you took time out to go off the beaten path. FO3 continued this tradition, not only with special encounters but also interesting places (especially in DC), and they also provided a lot of backstory to things that other games would've ignored. What comes to mind is the farm with the destroyed grain silos and the computer. You learn about the family there, whom were slaughtered by raiders. This is NOT necessary info for the FO universe, they were just normal people--but it was included anyway. I could site probably a hundred examples of such bits of information about the world. They weren't necessary for the game, but they added to the overall post-apoc feel, AND they gave you something fun to come across while scaving the wastelands and brought life into the world around you.



Was Fallout 3 perfect? No. It was glitchy as hell at times (where the f***k was QC?) it had holes in it where it comes to lore (they were remaking a game how many years old? Could they have been expected to get it perfect??), there were a few gameplay hiccups and there weren't a lot of really meaningful in-game choices that really felt like you had all that much impact on the world around you. There were some, though, enough to still provide that FO feel, but it was lacking enough that sometimes it felt like your choices weren't really making that much of a gameplay difference. Still, there were some satisfying dilemma's too. But I'm getting sidetracked. Point being, yes, there are imperfections in this game, but FO3 did plenty right, and brought plenty of cool, new things to the Fallout Universe that could be called an improvement--or kept to the spirit of the original games. The points above are why I thoroughly enjoy Fallout 3, and I could even go so far as to compare it to New Vegas if I wanted to, and why I prefer 3 over that disappointment--but that's for another topic.

SORRY for the long winded post *whew*


 
I'm inclined to disagree as far as the atmosphere capturing the originals, but I do have to concede that there were times when NV felt too civilized. It makes sense logically, but it did make one pine for the dark and uncertain days after leaving Vault 13. There were people who thought F3 was TOO grimdark, and comparatively, it was more in that direction than the any game in the franchise to date, but there's no reason that F3 shouldn't have had a "feel" distinct from the first two. 2 didn't match 1's, Tactics didn't match either.
 
omg, Tactics...I haven't been able to get INTO tactics, and I have the game. Have had, for months. I just haven't been able to pull myself past the first mission, it just...idk, something about it doesn't feel at all like FO beyond the name, and I was surprised, because I've heard a lot of good things about FOT, beyond it breaking canon.

I can see why some feel FO3 went too far with the "uncivilized" feel, but...like you said, no reason it shouldn't have a slightly different feel to it than the others--it's a different part of the country, after all--and arguably one that realistically would have suffered much more damage; if we ever did go into nuclear war, DC and the surrounding area would logically be one of the first places struck; and struck hardest, being the epicenter of our government, at least symbolically.

Even FO2 though, compared to 1, lost some of the gritty feel to it. Not enough to warrant complaining about, imo, but enough to be noticeable. Fallout 1 felt a lot like Mad Max :)
 
There are many things i disagree with Fovet, but this is for right things so i'll mention things i partially agree.

Random Encounter.
I think that the majority of things you encounter in a specific area should make sense with that specific area. I also think the scaling shit is shit.
But i agree that sometimes meeting an unexpected critter feels refreshing. But it shouldn't be the common thing.

Exploration
Nice on the paper. But there is too much generic stuff. It seems there is quantity for the sake of quantity which extend artificially the lenght of the game.
If there was more diversity, and more people to meet, i could agree a little more.

Atmosphere.
There are many things that fit with a post-nuclear atmosphere. Just not the Fallout atmosphere, or a 200 time period atmosphere.
It could have been more fitting, if, for instance, more people were just coming from the vault, and were not used to the new world. Being there since many generations make it less forgivable.

I agree about weapons and disagree about the rest.


About color of people, i agree with the original poster, that Fallout 3 does "mostly" a better job than Fallout:New Vegas in giving a better representation of black people.

But i think the general issue is not so much about not having enough black, asians, female etc. I think the problem comes when many directors and devellopers write too much characters having an initial thought about what color or gender will have. It kind of limits the range of roles those people have, when you say "ok, this character will be the black guy, so he will have these traits, not those, he will die there, and throw that punch line that will appeal black audience".
IMO, characters would first be written at blank state, and then, when the time of casting (or building models) happens, the color and gender will be chosen at last. (at random, or according to the skills of actors during casting) So you could have the same range of role for every kind of people as those roles aren't written for them.
 
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I guess this is more of a flaw but to me some of the glitches are fucking hilarious. Like whenever a corpse would start flying and stretch out into the sky.
 
Onholyservicebound said:
I ask myself, what has FO3 done right that NV didn't do better? The answer is: nothing.
Combat progression. For all the problems level scaling has, later on in Fallout 3 you're fighting tough Super Mutants and power-armoured Enclave troopers who pose a challenge. At high levels in New Vegas you're fighting the same Legionaries and Fiends as ever, and the only real challenge past level 20 or so is deathclaws. The only really challenging vault is 34; vault 11 is full of rats and mantises and the enemies in 22 are creepy but not difficult. Broken Steel ruined this with bullet sponge enemies, but then the New Vegas expansions had their problems with this too.

Fallout 3 was also better at portrayals of racial equality; New Vegas is lily white almost all over. The only non-white companion you can get in NV is a ghoul, as opposed to THREE non-white human companions in F3;I get that Arcade is based on Sawyer's old RP character so fair enough, but what was keeping Cass, Veronica, Boone from being some other race? Just about every major character in the game is white as well. I love New Vegas to death but this always niggles me.

Considering that the United States depicted in the Fallout Universe has a mentality stuck somewhere between 1946-1960, it's very easily conceivable that there would not be the level of integration or even ethnic mixing that occurred in the United States of our timeline.
 
The two biggest things that I liked about Fallout 3 that made it a "playable Fallout game" to me were the retro-50's setting (some people say that they wen't overboard with this, I think they integrated it into Fallout post-war society and pre-war society perfectly), and all of the original "struggling Wasteland" ideas that made me love Fallout 1 but kind of made me not [sic] take Fallout 2 in as seriously. Junk towns, people struggling to survive, killing eachother for scraps, et cetera et cetera.

Sure there were many things they did wrong, but if were talking about things they did right, than these are the two biggest things on my list. One of the biggest things I hated though is how they turned the Vault experiments into a completely unrealistic joke (although this could be attributed to Fallout Tactics or Fallout: BOS).
 
And these were the people who let you nuke a town.

EDIT: Scratch that, literally rewarded you for nuking a town.
 
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One of thing I liked was the skill checks now that I'm thinking, I very much prefer % to ''you need this much''.
 
One of thing I liked was the skill checks now that I'm thinking, I very much prefer % to ''you need this much''.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

%-chance can work to some extent if it's used properly, but Bethesda did a very poor job in this regard. The formulas they used in this regard basically made it impossible to fail any check, even if you completely ignore building the skills involved, so long as you're willing to reload enough to hit a very small window for success. Furthermore, even if you ignore the meta-gaming issue, such a system potentially produces logical anomalies such as failing a given check on one playthrough where the player maxed the skill out vs. passing that exact same check on another playthrough where they completely ignored the skill in question... with the only reason for such being the case is arbitrary RNG result rather than anything related to the context of the game, choices made, character skillset/background, etc.

The hard-coded target number method used in NV isn't exactly perfect, but it's definitely better than what was used in FO3. At the very least, it forces the player to continue building a particular skill if they want to be able to pass progressively more difficult checks with that skill (i.e. if a given check requires 65/100, no amount of reloading will allow you to bypass the need to increase the skill to that level). This supports the core concept of the role-playing genre where gameplay is built around the CHARACTER's measurable ability (which defines that character's "role" within the context of the game) rather than PLAYER's twitch-skills/meta-gaming ability or some other out-of-context influence (such as an RNG).

As a sidenote, the best overall method I've ever heard suggested for handling skill checks from a genre-defining "role-playing" standpoint is to use the "minimum number" method of determining success, but make the target-numbers for each individual check heavily dynamic based on the actions taken as the game progresses as well as the character's skillset/background/equipment/etc.
 
I prefer always having some chances to fail and some chances to succeed, with the % of chances being different depending of my skills.
I very love the fact something unpredictable could happen, like being level 99 with 300% small gun skill and 10 luck, but still critically miss and hurt myself.
It reminds that there is no such thing of being 100% certain of the result of an action.

About Fo3 qualities, it makes Fo1-Fo2-FoNV-FoT even better.
 
I liked yao guai and the robots (excluding the toyish Liberty Prime).

The two biggest things that I liked about Fallout 3 that made it a "playable Fallout game" to me were the retro-50's setting (some people say that they wen't overboard with this, I think they integrated it into Fallout post-war society and pre-war society perfectly)

For some reason the main FO3 concept artist made the game look like a steampunk game and not like a game from atomic age of the 50s. There are the elements of 50s in there but they're overshadowed by the clunkiness of steampunk. I think he missed the fact there was a lot of 80s/90s design in Fallout as well but you have to actually play the previous titles to know that.

This is steampunk

plasma-rifle-concept.jpg


This is Fallout

L11299.jpg
 
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One of thing I liked was the skill checks now that I'm thinking, I very much prefer % to ''you need this much''.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

%-chance can work to some extent if it's used properly, but Bethesda did a very poor job in this regard. The formulas they used in this regard basically made it impossible to fail any check, even if you completely ignore building the skills involved, so long as you're willing to reload enough to hit a very small window for success.

And once again the innate superiority of pen and paper RPGs comes forth; you can't save scrub real life.

But in defence of FO3, I save-scrubbed a lot in New Vegas - I carried a lot of mentats and skill books for that very reason! It feels "fairer" to me to fail a % chance test than to be "59/60" on a check and fail every single time.
 
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