Things that Fallout 3 did right!

I cannot stand this one, which is kind of awfull as it is the one that i hear the most, even in lore movies that don't have anything specifically related to Fo3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl5xbFXrFU4

Oh man the comments, why

That being said, the Fallout 3 OST on a whole was way too action-y. Like how can you go from "Metal Monks" to... that

Oh shit. things Fallout 3 did right. Um. The... locaaation-al...
fuck, I liked how the energy weapons looked, I guess
 
That being said, the Fallout 3 OST on a whole was way too action-y. Like how can you go from "Metal Monks" to... that


I agree, the soundtrack was a bit too much pump-action stuff and way less ambient tunes of the post-apocalypse. It was often distracting, at least for me.
That being said, the music itself is far from bad, it's just ill-fit at moments. It still isn't among Inon Zur best works - nonetheless, there are some great moments.




This ambient work is still a significant departure from Fallout and Fallout 2 music, but it fits the setting brilliantly. Especially since it only plays while exploring the wastes, which was one of the stronger points of Fallout 3, and is, in itself, a great song for your average post-nuclear holocaust bleakness that Fallout 3 so vehemently tried to achieve.
 
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I don't think Fallout 3 is a good game, maybe because I played 1 and 2 before I played it, but I was really excited for it when it was being developed because I thought that the game being a 3d first-person game it would allow the player to look at the Fallout universe a little bit differently: after all, there are things you can't do effectively with a 2d isometric perspective that you can do in 1st person 3D. And I think that the only things FO3 did right were the things it did that were impossible for Black Isle using FO1&2 format.

Namely, I think FO3 did D.C. more or less right.

L.A. and San Fran are really big cities but in 1 and 2 they seemed a bit small to me. L.A. less so, somehow, and really liked the idea of the massive Boneyard that stretches for miles where you can get lost while scavenging or looking for a fight. D.C. had all those monotonous metro tunnels (metro tunnels seem a neat idea to me, but they could've used some work) but they also had a lot of destroyed urban areas that seemed very effective to me. The moments when I really liked playing FO3 were when I was trudging through the hotel and hospital in 'Reilly's Rangers' quest, when I went exploring Georgetown, accidentally found some 'Gentleman's Club' or whatever in a cellar, the robot that read poetry to dead children, when I walked out of a metro station and found myself in huge open Arlington Cemetery, that whole skirmish in Takoma and even the Capitol Building.

So I say that FO3 did D.C. pretty much alright, and it's something I'm happy about because I doubt FO1 or 2 could have done anything even remotely similar.
(Then again, Van Buren's Denver sounded really cool :wink:)
 
What FO3 did right?

Marketing. :razz:

Aside from that...
Well I liked everything about the landscaping... All of it seemed spot on ~with the caveat that it all seemed about 180 years too late. FO3 looked like it was set in the first 30 years after the war.
3D art design; it was great... with (you may have guessed) the caveat that many established [antique] items & objects in the world seem to look nothing like their established appearances.
*Super Sledge and Mr.Handy come first to my mind.

Technically they got the Pipboy right ~as per the Fallout [1] manual ~though that's clearly not what the game displayed. The game's Pipboy seemed far more like a hand held device like those Equilerex renders.
 
Underrail, Van Buren mod, After Reset, Wasteland 2, Age Of Decadence, Shadowrun Returns, Pillars of Eternity, the new Torment, Dead State, multiple indie TB or post-apocalyptic RPG games that were made or supported mainly because Fo3 disapointed the players & devellopers. By screwing TB, isometric view, C&C, writting, challenge and many other features, Fo3 created or increased a void, a void that many creatives minds are currently occupied in filling. Also, it made me search for good RPG devellopers and their games, including classic ones. I would have preferred having those things without a terrible Fo3, but that new era is really something welcomed and unexpected.

PS: Some of them even include "This is what Fallout 3 should have been" in their advertizing.
 
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You can expect to see me in the new era of post apocalyptic RPG games. I cannot wait for Wasteland 2 and Age of Decadence.
 
TB or post-apocalyptic RPG games

IMO, TB or isometric doesn't mattered much for Fallout.

Combat of Fallout was actually terrible.
aim shot looks awesome and reasonable but actually, it's unfair tool to make player more powerful.
and can't control companion which make turn based system useless.
isometric view doesn't have much adventage compare to other views.
so blaming fo3 for not using TB or isometric view doesn't make much sense. to me.
 
TB/isometric aren't the only things that matter for Fallout.
FoNV doesn't use them and i still consider them as worthy sequel.
But i doubt i will replay it more than what is necessary to try out most relevant choices & DLC.
I find the 1st person perspective not fit for RPG, and the open-world full or generic-ness quickly boring.
Also, the TB are quite enjoyable in a sense that you can see every movement, every action, while real-time combat are usually finished in 1-2 seconds.
At last, TB/isometric/C&C/other stuff were what defined a "Fallout-like" game. Now, if you want to play a "Fallout-like" game, you have to look outside the franchise. Soon, they will no longer be called "Fallout-like" games.

PS: You can't control your followers in Fo1, but you can in Fo2, if you change one line in ddraw.ini (at least in the steam version). Of course, you control them in FOT.
 
TB/isometric aren't the only things that matter for Fallout.
FoNV doesn't use them and i still consider them as worthy sequel.
But i doubt i will replay it more than what is necessary to try out most relevant choices & DLC.
I find the 1st person perspective not fit for RPG, and the open-world full or generic-ness quickly boring.
Also, the TB are quite enjoyable in a sense that you can see every movement, every action, while real-time combat are usually finished in 1-2 seconds.
At last, TB/isometric/C&C/other stuff were what defined a "Fallout-like" game. Now, if you want to play a "Fallout-like" game, you have to look outside the franchise. Soon, they will no longer be called "Fallout-like" games.
What I want to say is, Fallout wasn't about combat.
both isometric and TB systems are suitable for combat.
games like Jagged alliance, TOEE and Divinity original sin show that TB & isometric is perfect combinations for tactical battle.

but was Fallout's combat tactical?
combats of Fallout is actually bad.( but satisfying thanks to great art work)
there is no tactics but character building and equipment managements.
character with sniper & luck 10 &high weapon skill & strong weapon is almost invincible.
aimshot makes it stronger.

FPS view have great advantage compare to isometric view.
game like Wizardry 8 have awesome puzzles and dungeons while puzzle and dungeon of Fo1 wasn't good at all.
think about finding important item, at isometric view, it's too hard to notice the location or item while at FPS view, it is easier to find something.
and make dungeon feel more interesting.

so, both isometric and TB didn't showed much good points of Fallout 1,2.
and FPS view and combat didn't showed much good points of 3 and NV either.

then what is good point of Fallout?
I think it's quest, RP and rule.
quest line of NV is quite similar to Fo1's quest line.
actually, Sawyer himself told that they benchmarked quest line of Fo1.
Fo2 also have similar but more non-linear quest line
fo3 didn't used questline of Fo1 but just copied it's plot.
I think that's why fo3 is hard to say it's Fallout.
and why I can say NV is Fallout.

PS: You can't control your followers in Fo1, but you can in Fo2, if you change one line in ddraw.ini (at least in the steam version).
Thank you for information.
 
Although it's super not fitting for a 200+ year aftermath the atmosphere and environment was pretty interesting imo.
I like the large broken down metropolis style setting with big buildings in ruins and rubble filled streets.
The Mall area was pretty neat with the trenches of Super Mutants, the science museum on one side, history on the other, a shame they never did much with that set up.
Going to the capital building and having a three way war between talon, mutant, and Enclave forces was pretty neat as well.

I understand all the games flaws and looking at the POV of a fan of the classic games the hate is pretty damn warranted but I personally find it hard to hate since it introduced me to the series.:grin:
 
Fallout did right the ruined environment indeed. I liked the ability to find many valuable historical objects like the Soil Stradivarius and Lincoln's Top Hat. The randomized loot added alot to the suprise in opening new containers, because you seriously do not know what's inside. Also gives it massive replay value. The outdoor lighting and colorization was sometimes fabulous and sometimes not. Seeing those ruined buildings covered in rubble and damaged cars was great. The cities were some of the best parts, contrasting with the outskirt. The giant bridges and overpasses were some of my favorite areas to explore. Seeing a ruined wasteland from high in the sky were my favorite parts of the game. Similarly, while I feel the Cathedral level in Fallout was kind of boring, it was great seeing the Boneyards from high in the sky.
 
I guess an argument could be made that FO3 made things relatively pretty graphics-wise, but that's about it. Even then, like any other game that put a lot of stock in visuals, that initial wow-factor fades pretty quickly.

Everything else was pretty shoddy work... Especially the RPG elements as a whole, and the FPS combat was also pretty poorly implemented.
 
I guess an argument could be made that FO3 made things relatively pretty graphics-wise, but that's about it.
One would need to go to GREAT lengths to make such an argument, however. The game ain't pretty by any standard definition. The scenery isn't nice nor unique. The graphics aren't good by any means. The characters aren't nice looking whatsoever. Whether by today's or 2008's standards, the game was not a visual accomplishment, so I don't see any hypothetical argument that it portrayed things relatively prettily at getting very far.
 
^ Yeah, I pretty much agree... unfortunately my half-hearted tone didn't come across well in saying "I guess, an argument could be made" and "relatively pretty". Probably could've made it clearer, but what I meant was some people these days will argue that 3d graphics of any kind are an improvement over fixed 2d sprites from the originals, and there's just no way to change their minds. It's also hard to deny there's an increased level of static visual detail (such as that seen in various equipment models) over the originals, even if the artwork done in FO3/NV wasn't all that great compared to other artwork being done in the industry at the time.

Personally, I don't really give a shit about graphics so long as stuff looks like it's supposed to and isn't a complete eye-sore with badly contrasting colors, so much bloom I get a fucking headache, constant flaws in the continuity of the environment (like commonly seeing gaps along edges of 3d models and such), and ridiculously bad animation-- which FO3/NV pushed a bit even for my taste... for one example, I definitely prefer the much more physically sensible death animations from the originals with the death-dance from being hit by burst fire or a chunk of a guy's torso being blown out or half a mole rat's skull being blown off by a single well-placed shot after which the body drops straight down rather than the ridiculous rag-doll physics where the body does a full flip from one punch, or other conceptual idiocy that basically equates to this: http://i.imgur.com/aA3yejU.jpg
 
^ Yeah, I pretty much agree... unfortunately my half-hearted tone didn't come across well in saying "I guess, an argument could be made" and "relatively pretty". Probably could've made it clearer
Oh no, I totally caught that. Unlike others completely misunderstanding when reading me (a steadily growing pet peeve), I take the time to thoroughly read and understand what others are saying, and if there's any ambiguity (whether it be tone because "it doesn't carry over into text", or the nuances of certain words in a language) I do my best to not make assumptions and consider what EVERY possibility might be. I was merely making the point that, while that was a indeed possibility, it was worth reinforcing that the bleakness of that possibility was still VERY grim. Notice I said "one" would have to go to great lengths, I didn't say "you" would. =)

Personally, I don't really give a shit about graphics so long as stuff looks like it's supposed to and isn't a complete eye-sore with badly contrasting colors, so much bloom I get a fucking headache, constant flaws in the continuity of the environment (like commonly seeing gaps along edges of 3d models and such), and ridiculously bad animation-- which FO3/NV pushed a bit even for my taste... for one example, I definitely prefer the much more physically sensible death animations from the originals with the death-dance from being hit by burst fire or a chunk of a guy's torso being blown out or half a mole rat's skull being blown off by a single well-placed shot after which the body drops straight down rather than the ridiculous rag-doll physics where the body does a full flip from one punch, or other conceptual idiocy that basically equates to this: http://i.imgur.com/aA3yejU.jpg
Yeah, as time goes on, I'm beginning to shift in my stance towards graphics. On the one hand, while the argument for "it's not all about graphics" reached its peak during the previous console generation, where graphics were the most emphasized attribute of games at the time, I felt (and to a large degree, still do) that graphics weren't the most important thing, but that they were still important. I argued that a game that plays great, is engaging, has a riveting story, relatable characters, and all the hallmarks of "a good game", made into duplicates where one has "good graphics" and the other has "supreme eye candy", the latter just wins because it looks prettier, so long as nothing else is compromised. While practically speaking this was NEVER the case, and titles were often sacrificing much while placing more valuable resources into the arbitrary graphical department, I still held that, theoretically, that was the role graphics played. If all else was equal, then superior graphics would be that icing on the cake.

And then I watched a "walkthrough" of Sonic Blast, a Game Gear title I'd played as a kid back when that game came out, and had largely since then filed away to the darkest recesses of my memory. Now brought to light, it shoved right in my face the clearest example of this industry obsession with graphics leading to nothing but harm for the medium. Game Gear Sonic games were never that great next to their Genesis counterparts, but this wasn't a matter of relative inferiority, this was a full step backwards. Or maybe several steps? Either way, it was slower, it lagged constantly, the Sonic avatar took up most of the screen (thus further exaggerating the already-noticeable slowness), and for what? A Sonic avatar that looked shapely and round, vaguely mimicking the allusion of 3-dimensionality? No, that wasn't worth it at all. A game as par back as the mid-90s was a complete failure because of all the core mechanics and performance it sacrificed for the arbitrary pursuit of prettiness. I had though that was really a mistake largely during the previous console generation, but not, it has been prevalent all along. And then indie titles with their limited budgets come along side by side with Minecraft, showcasing great games that are beloved by the masses whilst deliberately avoiding putting much effort into visuals, because their effort was dedicated solely to gameplay, mechanics, performance, and (non-visual) polish. I still WANT to believe that graphics can make all the difference, and I still think it's hypothetically possible. But the harsh reality seems to be that monolithic companies aim low. Really, really low. =(

Love that comic, by the way. XD
 
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TB or post-apocalyptic RPG games

IMO, TB or isometric doesn't mattered much for Fallout.
It was the very first thing they set out to design apparently; I should say it was the foremost aspect of the project, given the premise of the game.

aim shot looks awesome and reasonable but actually, it's unfair tool to make player more powerful.
How is it unfair? Unlike FO3, Fallout ensures that the character is made more vulnerable for using the time to make aimed shots. If they miss or don't damage well enough, the PC is then at a disadvantage for the rest of the round, and probably cannot access their inventory for stimpacks.

and can't control companion which make turn based system useless.
isometric view doesn't have much adventage compare to other views.
so blaming fo3 for not using TB or isometric view doesn't make much sense. to me.
Why should it matter~~rather... Why should some random stranger they picked up be trained to follow orders under stress without an ego?

*Granted: The NPC party members in Fallout were not planned to BE in Fallout; they were a late hack. Also (interestingly) The fan modded Fallout's seem to allow NPC control in combat... But I honestly wish that the could distinguish between military/paramilitary, and someone like Sulik... such that only military NPCs follow orders, or that civilians have a greater [perhaps Charisma affected] chance of going rogue in fight. Like... Like Sean Bean's character Spence in Ronin ~as opposed to Vincent [Jean Reno].
 
It is unfair indeed.
with skill of 200, there is very small chance of missing a shot.
and no other characters can do that.

controlling NPC is minor point.
what I want to say is, combat of Fallout isn't tactical at all.
even Arcanum has better combat thanks to lots of items(using decoy robot, healing robot, etc..)
there isn't much choice in combat in Fallout.
I even can't use cover even the combat of game suppose to be.
 
Fallout 1 companions were an afterthough. But in Fallout 2, companions have different behavior during fight. Sulick is more brave and will rush the ennemies. Cassidy is wiser and will shoot from a distance. Miria isn't a fighter and will make bad calls. Myron is a junkie coward, he will take drugs and flee. Sure you can apply some settings, but all have different way of behave that you might miss if the game was in real time, not mentionning the funny comments that almost everyone say during combats.
 
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