This has to be a joke, right? RIGHT?

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by Jebus, Apr 4, 2012.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    yeah, well it just feels to me like you simply dont like it and you blame it on the movie. Tell me your favourite movie and I will tell you its plot holes/mistakes or why its shit. See what I mean? ;)

    Seriously. If you dont like the movies. No problem! I respect your taste. But for itself and the genre SW was pretty good, otherwise It would not have been that succesfull. Even today. So plot holes or not, but they did something right.

    that is the only problem I really have with the Star Wars franchise and why I usually try to get away from the "fans" I only see the movies really as canon to say that. Its an really entertaining movie which you can watch with your kids or friends. Get some pop corn and shut up your brain. Just like Toront said, its a very simple hero-mythos with a father vs son story. Good vs evil. It could not be more simple than that. But it works for me. No clue why some expect(ed) THAT much from star wars ... or why everything has to suddenly make sense. I mean again, we are not talking here about a Kubrik Sci-Fi flick where I would agree with Jebs the more serious a movie is the more you will notice plot holes and inconstancies. Take Prometheus as example. I really HATED the way how the actors played their roles. They are supposed to be Scientists? And the first thing they do is removing their helmets as soon they get in the alien ship. Awesome. Not even a usual person would do that. Despite the fact that they can breath inside it. Or how the guy who made a map from the ship got lost ...
     
  2. Jebus

    Jebus Background Radiant
    Orderite

    Jan 29, 2004
    I feel like a dog tied to a pole, constantly running in circles.

    I never said they didn't do anything right, I said there were a lot of plotholes. Period.
     
  3. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Star Wars is a futuristic fairy tale. A flashy movie for a younger audience. Plotholes like no E-Mail don't really matter, as Star Wars in its original form (the very first movie) never really tried to depict a working universe.
    Like every fairy tale it's an unholy clusterfuck of ideas without much coherence or deeper thought. It's not needed, though. The focus is the story, the morality and the characters, like all fairy tales.
    Long story short: Star Wars is not Science Fiction, never was. Although many people like to think of it as Science Fiction for its futuristic setting, it's just not. It's a fairy tale in space.
    That being said, I'm still a huge fan of Star Wars.
    I just hate it when people judge it by Science Fiction standards or claim it to be Science Fiction.
    The prequels are still crap, though, even by fairy tale standards.
     
  4. 34thcell

    34thcell Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    333
    Sep 22, 2008
    I guess that's what it feels like talking to a Serbian liberal.

    Starwars is good because it combines space, swords, dogfights, b-grade shootouts, cowboys, incest and magic into one. Basically, George Lucas had the best thing ever and he fucked it up.
     
  5. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign No Original Thought Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005

    I believe it is considered a Space Opera. It seems to fit the description.


    Edit: I take it Crni is also a big Star Wars fan. :)
     
  6. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    And all I am saying is that those plot holes are trivial, because ... again ... its more a fairy tale then anything else ... why is it so hard to simply enjoy the movie for what it is?

    Look. If we would be talking about Prometheus here (or any serious Science Fiction movie), then I would agree with you, because for example the scientists getting lost in that ship right after they made a map ... is a huge plot hole. And a pretty stupid one. Or at least its "silly". Same for scientists not acting like scientists - taking of their helmets in hostile/unknown environment.

    But complaining about how they had no "e-mail" in the star wars setting when you should also remember how OLD Star Wars actually is ... is nitpicking. Because Star Wars never was a serious science fiction movie in the first place, it was a huge homage to the Flash-Gordon/Adventure type of movies. You don't watch Flash Gordon for example and complain about it how they had people in it with hawk wings or some evil wizard trying to collide his planet with our earth ...
     
  7. 34thcell

    34thcell Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    333
    Sep 22, 2008
    He was responding to this:

    So the old movies may be pretty cool, but it's not because of "coherence" or "vision".
     
  8. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I would not consider my self a fan, but I like them very much. They are very simple entertainment which can be good sometimes.
     
  9. Sduibek

    Sduibek Creator of Fallout Fixt Moderator Modder

    Oct 27, 2010
    This makes me want to kill the makers of the game, then whatever shitty singer is using auto-tune for that crappy song, then myself. I had to stop at 1:00.
     
  10. Zmuda

    Zmuda First time out of the vault

    20
    Sep 22, 2012
    I have fixed emotions about this >_<
     
  11. Sduibek

    Sduibek Creator of Fallout Fixt Moderator Modder

    Oct 27, 2010
    Fixed?
     
  12. person

    person It Wandered In From the Wastes

    112
    Aug 29, 2011
    "Fixed." As in, "I have castrated emotions about this."
     
  13. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign No Original Thought Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Han Solo was castrated from the looks of it.
     
  14. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    2001? Nope. That's the proverbial hard science fiction movie.
     
  15. Sduibek

    Sduibek Creator of Fallout Fixt Moderator Modder

    Oct 27, 2010
    Don't watch Clockwork Orange unless you've already read the book. The book is literally twenty times better.
     
  16. person

    person It Wandered In From the Wastes

    112
    Aug 29, 2011
    Does Clockwork really fit in that list? Dystopian doesn't always insinuate sci-fi.

    Even with the clipped ending, I would say the novel is only between one and two times better than the film. Kubrick is a mad wizard of re-imagining a world with nothing but subtleties.
     
  17. 13pm

    13pm Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    831
    Apr 10, 2007
    A bit offtopic, but pretty funny

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJlbPXZEpRE[/youtube]
     
  18. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I recently saw that movie while going through Star Wars forums to look what books are worth reading and the lyrics do reflect how I feel about SW in general.

    Last week I got the Thrawn Trilogy books I bought on Ebay, I know they are very overhyped but I still feel they are very good compared to a lot of the Star Wars material as of late.
    For one they at least focus on telling a story without focusing on the commercial aspects (Thrawn, Mara Jade, Cbaoth action figures, Dreadnought heavy cruiser ship models).

    The Clone Wars as Zahn imagined them to be also sound a lot more interesting than Lucas' stuff (a war between the old Republic and a group of clonemasters).

    Now there really is no point in complaining how Star Wars has become bad and Lucas is an idiot and how the Prequels should have been different.
    They have been made and that's it, I am not even pissed at the people who do like the movies and related material. I just wish that I myself had never seen them or any of the other material that I don't like that have been added over the years, my own imagination would have filled in pretty nicely.

    Like with Star Trek its perhaps best to accept that the Star Wars franchise is no longer appealing to some older fans.
    Lucas can do with his creation what he want but for me its no longer worth investing much interest or money into anymore.
    Perhaps in time the 'new' fans will also feel that way.
     
  19. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    I personally was never able to take Star Wars very seriously. They're soft space operas with lots of ''cool'' stuff and a bullshit moral system. I mean, it's certainly very iconic, and I like Darth Vader and Han Solo as much as the next guy, but it's nothing to get really worked up about in terms of plot or in-universe consistency. Lucas himself certainly doesn't seem to care about the latter stuff, so long as the movies and books have ridiculous superweapons and overly coregraphied lightsaber fights.

    The Thrawn trilogy were the only Star Wars books I read, and honestly were the best material of the franchise if you ask me, yes including the original movie trilogy. No literary classics, but Zahn knows how to tell a story without (overly) resorting to the contrived coincidences and ludicrous black-and-white situations that plague the rest of the IP. Plus Thrawn himself was such a great villain. I liked the duo he formed with his second in command, what was his name, Pelleous?
     
  20. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I understand where you are coming from Ilosar, and as my earlier post made it clear I don't care much for most of Star Wars material either.
    Its clear Lucas doesn't really do at all.

    I am not going to put Star Wars on some kind of pedestal as its definitely not the embodiment of science fiction (its entertaining space opera like you said).
    But I do believe the earlier Star Wars had a greater degree of quality than it has now, not sure to describe it when it got lost but I think it has a great deal to do with how it got 'milked out'.

    As for your question, his name was Gilad Pellaeon.