Torment and Arcanum

Arcanum:

Pros - Music, Characetr System, turn base combat, the world, the quests, the characters, story

Cons - RT combat (way too quick), graphics,


PST:

Pros - Stories, and characters

Cons - Everything else except maybe music.



Arcanum is better. PST is a good game; but overrated. Arcanum is a game whee it's ana ctual world with some depth unlike the pathetic ES series. Sadly, Arcanum is not the best game ever because it is inflicted with some really asanine things that draw it down. ie. Way too much forced combat (unless you enjoy role-playing a coward).

Still, it's easily better than PST.
 
Arcanum is actually a lot of fun once you mod it. I fixed the balance issues with the firearms, added some custom portraits and backgrounds, and then went through the game as a technologist without suffering the painful reality of magic being far too powerful in a game where technology is supposedly snuffing it out. Once you iron out its little nitpicky parts, the game is actually pretty immersive and entertaining (and going through Vendigroth or the secret lab on Ogre Isle are every bit as creepy as The Glow in Fallout).

Torment, on the other hand, is just a work of art. It's beautifully drawn, fantastically coded (I played through the whole thing without a single glitch), and has a great storyline to go along with the bizarre world. Sigil was like Mos Eisley on crack, and everywhere you turned you could find a prostitute.

Which is the better game? Tough call. I have to say I've played Arcanum more than Torment, but I think Torment was better made.
 
I haven't read most of the thread, i'm here just to give a simple opinion, not to discuss: Arcanum is a pretty decent game, Torment is the best game ever, at least from a character, story and world development point of view
 
"Volourn is overrated."

Connsidering what people think of me; I highly doubt that statement is true. :shock:


Haha, Silence. Haven't clicked the link yet; but still hilarious! :lol:
 
I don't think the turnbased combat in Arcanum was much of an advantage. It was just as broken and buggy as the real time combat.

Where Planescape: Torment is a virtually flawless and shining gem of gaming that trancends the ages, Arcanum is more a diamond in the rough. If you can overcome its flaws there was some goodness within that could unlock a cave of wonders. Sadly that cave of wonders all melted into nothing and tried to kill you if you touched any of it..

The only "Flaws" with Planescape: Torment were the ones inherent to the D&D ruleset, and they never caused me to throw up my arms in dispair as Arcanum did on a regular basis.
 
Eric the Viking said:
Buy why is it that all the evil weapons and armour damage the player?
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Not all of the hexed items damage the player. Some do, some deal random damage, some may help your opponents (like The Staff Of Hypocrisy). Anyway: they're hexed, so it's kinda logic that you shouldn't use them. With the exception of The Dark Helm maybe, which is an excellent item to create evil followers so they won't get pissed off when you slaughter someone good. And The Diseased Leather Armour and The Baneful Gauntlets, which can be used to assassinate certain characters in the game without having to lift a finger. Oh, and The Bangellian Scourge, which is of course the best weapon for evil characters who just don't give a friggin' fuck about their alignment.

I can't understand how such an overwhelming amount of quests could be regarded as a negative thing. There are about 80 different locations in Arcanum and IMO each one of them is worth a visit, but doing so is not mandatory. I think you only need to visit something like 14 locations to complete the main quest and, thus, the game. But just imagine Fallout having 80 different locations, wouldn't that have been swell?

The only thing that sometimes bothers me about Arcanum is the level cap. But there's a no level cap patch out there, so all's well. :D
 
So it (Arcanum) arrived a while ago and I have been playing it for a few days now. I really like it a lot, and am certainly happy I bought it.
However, I would have to agree with some of the downsides already pointed out by our fellow NMAers.

What bothers me most is really the music... Come on! Totally horrible.
You could say: "Just turn the music off." But I don't like it when there is no music at all. To that you could say: "But then put on winamp or your radio." However I don't like the fact that that music is totally unfit for the game and the world I'm in at that time.
So I'm stuck with the in-game music, wich sucks, let's be honest.

Other than that, there is nothing that bothers me to the extent that I would give up the game and throw it on a shelve. Of course, since I haven't finished the game yet, I can't make any statements about the game as a whole, so I'm talking about what I saw and heard so far.
 
I really enjoy both, but i think you should experience Planescape Torment. The dialogues at times caused me to be depressed and emotional. No game has done that to me before. It is brilliant, captivating, and features tons of replayability. Arcanum however is one of my other favorite games of all time. I agree with most of what alec said, the character development is genius, and again is ripe with replayability. Tough decision, but i would go with PS:T first.
 
I really loved Torment. The whole thing was just beautiful and left me with a feeling of immense satisfaction and well being after I beat the game, for the sheer fact that I played it.

Arcanum was a good game with an incredibly original concept and and interesting background setting but it never really lived up to it's potential in my opinion. The most frustrating part of the game was the character development system which so heavily favored melee combat it was just ridiculous. I started playing the game with the intention of becoming a gunslinger but I soon found that I was just unable to get any kind of proficiency in gun-slinger style combat without completely sacrificing the rest of my character. This was because as I remember I had to improve something like three or four different statistics to be able to hit anything. Then there was the fact that I still needed to be intelligent and persuasive and charismatic to be able to participate in all the quests to fully explore the game. However if I chose to develop my character so that he would be intelligent and persuasive enough to discover all of the story line then I would have to completely sacrifice his ability to defend himself. It was just an exercise in frustration until I ended up getting a cheat on line to give myself all the character points I desired. However using the cheat it took over TWO HUNDRED character points to create the kind of character that was a good shot and still able to talk to people. While I admit that this end result was uber-powerful and therefore basically broke the game, I would like to point out that to max out all of the stats available I would have had to spend something like 600+ character points. This is ridiculous since your character could only attain about 60 in the normal course of the game, and it took about 20-30 to create a super powerful melee character that would have a relatively good chance of winning against my 'broken' gunslinger character in one-on-one combat.

However one thing that I can not agree with which, was mentioned earlier, is that the music in Arcanum was bad. In my opinion it was incredibly appropriate for the setting. I also seem to remember that it won some sort of acclaim for being a good piece of classical music, apart from being in a game..... not entirely sure..... but I seem to remember reading about how some orchestra performed it at a concert.
 
gonzo13 said:
I started playing the game with the intention of becoming a gunslinger but I soon found that I was just unable to get any kind of proficiency in gun-slinger style combat without completely sacrificing the rest of my character. This was because as I remember I had to improve something like three or four different statistics to be able to hit anything.
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Yeah, right. You only need to raise your Firearms skill and your Perception. When you play as a human, that means +10 xp to raise your Perception to 18 and +5 xp to raise your Firerarms skill to Master status. That's 15 xp to be able to wield a gun in a satisfactory way, which leaves you with another 49 xp to spend on other stats, skills etc.

Then there was the fact that I still needed to be intelligent and persuasive and charismatic to be able to participate in all the quests to fully explore the game. However if I chose to develop my character so that he would be intelligent and persuasive enough to discover all of the story line then I would have to completely sacrifice his ability to defend himself.
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Aw come on. Do you know how to play RPGs? Let's proceed with the gunslinger. You already spend 15 xp. You have 49 xp left. Worst case scenario is that you spend another 10 xp on Charisma and another 5 xp on Persuasion and another 10 xp on Intelligence which still leaves you with another 24 xp to spend on other stats, skills etc. Is that so bad?

It was just an exercise in frustration until I ended up getting a cheat on line to give myself all the character points I desired. However using the cheat it took over TWO HUNDRED character points to create the kind of character that was a good shot and still able to talk to people. While I admit that this end result was uber-powerful and therefore basically broke the game, I would like to point out that to max out all of the stats available I would have had to spend something like 600+ character points. This is ridiculous since your character could only attain about 60 in the normal course of the game, and it took about 20-30 to create a super powerful melee character that would have a relatively good chance of winning against my 'broken' gunslinger character in one-on-one combat.
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600 xp? To max out all the stats available? You really don't have a fucking clue what role-playing is all about, do you? Wanker.
 
Actually i`m with Gonzo on this, i tried many times and gave up on succeeding in having a gunslinger character that worked. That`s probably the main reason i never finished the game, although it is a really awesome game in many other aspects.
 
I'm with Alec. Anyone who's not an utter CRPG newbie should be able to make a good gunfighter to finish the game with and still have a few points to play around - not one that can compete with the best fighter/mage, granted, but that's not the point. (Provided you play in turn based, of course, but that goes for melee as well.)
 
I will give the detractors this, a gunslinger is not a character build for newbies. The easiest class to start with, in my opinion, is a half orc beat with an ugly stick melee specialist. Then supplement melee with some spells and techs(healing big time). Focus on dexterity and speed over strength, and play TB, though that goes with out saying.

Now, just because one build is easier than another, doesn't mean the whole game is broken. Beyond that it plays a lot like Fallout. Its almost a spiritual successor.
 
I never had any problems finishing a game with a gunslinger.
You need to know where to find the decent weaponry, though.
Like Sammy Whites Hand Cannon in Tarant and the Elephant Gun in Ashbury.
It's also a smart move to invest 1xp in Throwing and 1xp in learning the Molotov Cocktail schematic. That way you can push those that close in on you back and off them from a safe distance. It's also a very handy weapon against Ore Golems. Plus: using Molotov Cocktails doesn't cost you any points whatsoever!
Investing in Electricity will allow you to eventually make a Tesla Gun, which is one of the best weapons in the game.
Droch's Warbringer is probably the best handgun in the whole game, though, but you can only find that schematic after visiting the Vendigroth Wastes, which is a bit late IMO.

Also: technologists aren't forced to max out their Intelligence to make all schematics. All you need is INT 9. Just use a Potion of INT and it'll go up to INT 19 -- long enough to learn a schematic and/or make the thing you need. That's 10 xp saved which you can use for other stats, skills etc.
 
Yep, would have to agree with alec and Per on this. My first (and only char so far) is a dwarf with: maxed firearms, a good deal in lockpicks, spot traps and disarm traps, 18 INT, 18 PER, 12 CHAR, 9 DEX, 11 STR, Professor in Gunsmithy and Doctor in Mechanics.
Next to these I've wasted some points like in gamble and haggle.
As you can see, this is far from a perfect cookie-cutter character, yet I have no trouble at all with battles that are too difficult or unsolvable quests. Maybe it's YOU that has a problem rather than this game (in this matter).
 
clercqer said:
coockie-cutter character
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I don't know what one of those are, and I don't want to know. But I don't think Haggle is worthless, especially if you are an technologist who need to buy expense ingredients. Heck, if you managed to save 30,000, I think, you can skip a pain in the neck series of quests.
 
You guys are trying to tell me that a human with firearms isn`t an incredible tough character to build? Seriously that´s a big surprise, after a few years lurking in the Arcanum comunity and all the complaints i saw about that, and following the development of Chrisbedoes patch, that was made in the first place to give tech characters a chance and to increase the dificulty with half ogres with mellee and magic chars since they had such an easy life i`m having a hard time believing it was solely my problem.

That sums up my feelings on both games, Torment a very engaging and balanced game suffering from too much linearity and Arcanum, great atmosphere, dialogues and freedom but suffering from beeing too unbalanced.
 
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