Torment Kickstarter goes live

[valcik]

Why 500.000 to add ONE SINGLE AREA to the game?

One single area means a few programmers/artists/writters/scripters working on it. Each of them with a decent salary; it's around $4000 per month for one person I think. So, if several people are working on the location for several months, it's not cheap.

 

[Lexx]

The 500.000 aren't spend solely on the one single area. It's a stretch goal to get more money for the whole project, not to get money for a single area.

 

[Stevie D]

I'm not against things like that to call the attention/money of people, i'm ok with companies giving cheap things like thematic mousepad, USB driver, whatever, this wasnt what i talked about either, i talked about 500.000, a LOT of money required to build one area when the entire game would cost 900.000, i dont trust in this and i strongly believe every donator should think about it.

Don't forget that the vast majority of people aren't bidding to hit the stretch goal; they're just buying the game in advance.

Fargo et al. are going to make an excess fuck-ton of cash on this one that will go into their pockets rather than entirely being ploughed back into stretch goals, but I'm glad for them. They deserve it for recognising that Kickstarter is a great way to circumvent the suited guys represented by the kid in the limo and peddle awesome games to a silent... if not majority then at least a huge minority. It's an exciting and potentially a revolutionary period in game-making when all seemed lost.

They may as well put the stretch goals in arbitrarily on the money totaliser because the pre-sales will come in by the wheelbarrow-load one way or the other. It's much the same as any other development process, except their proceeds are more transparent and the profits go into the bank before the product's even made.

 

[Wr4i7h]

Don't forget that the vast majority of people aren't bidding to hit the stretch goal; they're just buying the game in advance.

Fargo et al. are going to make an excess fuck-ton of cash on this one that will go into their pockets rather than entirely being ploughed back into stretch goals, but I'm glad for them. They deserve it for recognising that Kickstarter is a great way to circumvent the suited guys represented by the kid in the limo and peddle awesome games to a silent... if not majority then at least a huge minority. It's an exciting and potentially a revolutionary period in game-making when all seemed lost.

They may as well put the stretch goals in arbitrarily on the money totaliser because the pre-sales will come in by the wheelbarrow-load one way or the other. It's much the same as any other development process, except their proceeds are more transparent and the profits go into the bank before the product's even made.

While it's true that many (myself included) are, for all intents and purposes, just buying the game in advance, I doubt that there will be a lot of money left over after development is complete. They'll be reusing tech and manpower from Wasteland 2, but the amount of content they plan to make seems ambitious, to put it mildly.

However, I bet that in a long term perspective, both Wasteland 2 and Torment will be profitable. Whereas PST didn't sell enough to make a profit when it mattered, now there is online distribution and marketing. Torment won't be a blockbuster, obviously, but it'll be a steady seller, IMHO. It's a game that doesn't depend on pretty graphics (like many blockbusters) or a short-lived platform (consoles).

 

[mobucks]

Depends on what your definition of "pretty graphics" is. If they go with something similar to Project Eternity, it will look amazing. I do hope their team is malleable enough to go from WL2 3d to the more traditional pre-rendered 2d for Numenera. Fantasy settings just don't translate well in a full 3d environment. I mean, they could, the tech is certainly available, but the logistics involved would mean a lot of extra work to match the fidelity of the concept. Anything less would look cartoonish or devoid of detail.

I hope this is one aspect that is asked/awnsered soon. (unless it already has, if/than I'm a boob.)

 

[Wr4i7h]

To clarify, when I mentioned "pretty graphics", I meant from a technological standpoint, not artistic. Games such as Crysis are blockbusters that use the latest and greatest in graphics tech and sell a lot at launch, but nobody will touch them in, say, 10 years. Wasteland and Torment will likely be the reverse - lukewarm sales at launch, but excellent longevity.

As for the question of prerendered assets assets, I don't know either. I don't know of many examples of fully 3D fantasy games that don't look cartoonish. However, they could save a lot of work and improve flexibility by going fully 3D.

 

[Sander]

Don't forget that the vast majority of people aren't bidding to hit the stretch goal; they're just buying the game in advance.

Fargo et al. are going to make an excess fuck-ton of cash on this one that will go into their pockets rather than entirely being ploughed back into stretch goals

All of the excess money is going into development. That means that the world will be bigger, there will be more writers to hire, more artists, more room for improvement, QA etc.

Again: a stretch goal does not encompass all that will be done with that money. You can just fill in "more in-game stuff" with every extra dollar.

To put it bluntly: going over the stretch goals is not profit for Fargo. It is just more money which will be spent on development.

Unless you don't trust Fargo et al. to do what they say they will do. Though I think Fargo not investing every single dollar he gets through Kickstarter in the game would be a felony.

 

[Stevie D]

Again: a stretch goal does not encompass all that will be done with that money. You can just fill in "more in-game stuff" with every extra dollar.

To put it bluntly: going over the stretch goals is not profit for Fargo. It is just more money which will be spent on development.

I'm assuming that he's put a set amount side to put a roof over the heads of all involved and food in their bellies.

Anyway, never mind the quotidian stuff. What you say is interesting, because it suggests that Inxile might be in a position where they're contractually obliged to keep gilding and regilding the lily way beyond the point where adding stretch goals and whatnot becomes unnecessary bloat, depending on the money supply.

I mean, whilst I'm well-aware these need to be taken with fistfuls of salt, particularly at so early a stage in the funding campaign, check the Kicktraq projections out: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera/

...also bearing in mind the inevitable 'hockey stick' of last minute funding before the clock runs out.

I never thought I'd see the day when an indie - a much beloved indie - could suffer from a surplus of cash, but this is a rather amusing as well as potentially inconvenient situation for them.

Unless you don't trust Fargo et al. to do what they say they will do. Though I think Fargo not investing every single dollar he gets through Kickstarter in the game would be a felony.

No, no, he's good people, I'm sure. Well, as sure as you can be with anyone I suppose.

 

[Wr4i7h]

I'm assuming that he's put a set amount side to put a roof over the heads of all involved and food in their bellies.

What do you think they do with most of the kickstarter money? It's obvious that most of it will be used to pay hired developers their salaries. More money = more development time = more content.

 

[Tagaziel]

I'm assuming that he's put a set amount side to put a roof over the heads of all involved and food in their bellies.

Uh, development money is exactly that. Paying developers for designing and implementing stuff. Commissioning art you can't make in house, or don't want to. Bonuses for performance. All that jazz.

Anyway, never mind the quotidian stuff. What you say is interesting, because it suggests that Inxile might be in a position where they're contractually obliged to keep gilding and regilding the lily way beyond the point where adding stretch goals and whatnot becomes unnecessary bloat, depending on the money supply.

I mean, whilst I'm well-aware these need to be taken with fistfuls of salt, particularly at so early a stage in the funding campaign, check the Kicktraq projections out: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera/

...also bearing in mind the inevitable 'hockey stick' of last minute funding before the clock runs out.

I never thought I'd see the day when an indie - a much beloved indie - could suffer from a surplus of cash, but this is a rather amusing as well as potentially inconvenient situation for them.

I prefer to think of extra money as a cushion, a safe margin to give them some leeway in designing and more freedom to experiment.

 

[Stevie D]

What do you think they do with most of the kickstarter money? It's obvious that most of it will be used to pay hired developers their salaries. More money = more development time = more content.

Now you mention it...

 

[Brother None]

Me the past few days

 

[Geech]

To be honest, I don't really care if any extra money went straight into Fargo's pocket, as long as he produces good games. I think inXile isn't going to make much profit on these games after they're made, just because most of their market has already purchased the games at a bargain price.

In fact, it would make me feel a little bit better if they did profit on the funding, just because that would make their position more secure and increase the likelihood that they could keep this train rolling.

 

[Wr4i7h]

If you look at the top 10 sellers in GOG, you'll see Fallout, Arcanum and PST in there, proving that there's a steady long-term profit to be made in good rpgs. And now inxile has two of those. I bet they'll be able to keep this going. At least I hope so, given that they plan to make more Torment games.

 

[.Pixote.]

It would be interesting to know how much Interplay and the like make from GOG each year, I can't imagine it's all that much. Tod probably spends more on hair products.

 

[Jebus]

What else do you think happens with the money? This would only be a concern if there was some kind of purpose for the money we're hiding, but we're not: it all goes into the game.

All of the excess money is going into development. That means that the world will be bigger, there will be more writers to hire, more artists, more room for improvement, QA etc.

So you guys say. There's absolutely no single shred of proof for that, though. I guess we just have to take the word of the brilliant entrepeneur that Fargo is (just ask Interplay).

Though I think Fargo not investing every single dollar he gets through Kickstarter in the game would be a felony.

Even if it were a felony (which I doubt), how in the world would anyone - both supporters or Kickstarter - ever be able to check what happened with the money if there's no transparency at all?

 

[Sander]

So you guys say. There's absolutely no single shred of proof for that, though. I guess we just have to take the word of the brilliant entrepeneur that Fargo is (just ask Interplay).

You can critique Fargo for his entrepeneurship (unjustly, I'd say, but you could) -- but you can hardly accuse him of being a scam artist. Which is what you're doing.

 

[Jebus]

So you guys say. There's absolutely no single shred of proof for that, though. I guess we just have to take the word of the brilliant entrepeneur that Fargo is (just ask Interplay).

You can critique Fargo for his entrepeneurship (unjustly, I'd say, but you could) -- but you can hardly accuse him of being a scam artist. Which is what you're doing.

You claim the opposite with just as little proof.
Also, I never said the was a scam artist (i.e. appropriating the money illegally), but there are plenty of ways to use that money for other shit than strictly Torment without doing anything illegally (and considering the complete lack of transparency, without any repercussions either).

 

[mobucks]

Do you just dismiss the videos of WL2 and the room with the team of people working on it? Or the fact fargo states he will match cetrain stretch goals with x dollars out of his own pocket?

 

[Jebus]

You seem to have a pretty lightweight opinion over what constitutes 'proof'.

I dunno. Maybe this rubs me in millions of wrong ways because of the sector I work in. After all, companies that don't disclose *any* financial information to their financiers and stockholders would be the most absurd thing ever in all the economic world except for Kickstarter.