Twelve not allowed angry mutants

LordAshur said:
[merge] It still shows the Anstalt video for me, does it show Ihav Kozak za Dunaj for everyone else? [/merge]
@Crni Vuk You fucked up my learning of the merge function! Bad Crni!

The only reason I (and most reasonable people from Croatia) regret Sranjo's death is that we couldn't see him sweating it next to Slobo in the Hague.

But fuck it, your nationalists are at least entertaining. And some of them even have balls, I can't deny them that.
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Croatia ... oh boy! Don't start with that stuff. One of the most useless conflicts of the last century. Not only have neighbours and families started to fight and kill each other but the people shouting the loudest had to suffer from nothing. Instead of riping Yugoslavia apart the army should have turned around, sack ALL politicans from each nation, send them to a wall, and do what's best for the nation.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Croatia ... oh boy! Don't start with that stuff. One of the most useless conflicts of the last century. Not only have neighbours and families started to fight and kill each other but the people shouting the loudest had to suffer from nothing. Instead of riping Yugoslavia apart the army should have turned around, sack ALL politicans from each nation, send them to a wall, and do what's best for the nation.
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Precisely, comrade, precisely.

But you would be surprised at the amount of sheer brainwashing and how successful it was in Croatia. Frankly, it was one of the main reasons I decided to abandon it - the amount of bullshit that all of Croatian history is loaded with.

For example, a dude told me once, when I didn't even ask about it: "Them Serbs are so full of shit, pretending that they were mistreated in 1995, the father of my friend, who was there, told me that they were ordered to shoot 20 meters from the escaping Serbs just to make them cross the border, what are they whining about?"

And the dude was entirely convinced that this made Croatia morally pure in the matter...

I mean, you Serbs made Lepa Sela Lepo Gore in 1996. A movie which clearly shows the Serbian side commiting atrocites during the war. That movie was released one year after the war was over. It's been twenty years since the war was over, and there has yet to be a Croatain movie portraying Croatian soldiers as anything but noble knights fighting against evil Serbian vampires.

For all my libertarianism, Yugoslavia still prevails:

 
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LordAshur said:
Precisely. When you're a newly created state playing empire between two actual empires, one might say that you had it coming.
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Poland was not a newly created state.

Let alone the fact that Stalin was ready, willing and able to send troops to Czechoslovakia when the Sudetenland crisis was ongoing but you didn't let the Soviet troops pass through. More than that, you took a part of Czechoslovakia.
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You do realize that we would have wound up invaded and occupied by the Soviet Union, like the Baltic States, right? Are you really claiming that Stalin wasn't a war-mongering, insane dictator who terrorized everyone to maintain his power?
 
Tagaziel said:
LordAshur said:
Precisely. When you're a newly created state playing empire between two actual empires, one might say that you had it coming.
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Poland was not a newly created state.
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Great, then you were just another country playing empire and eating dick as a result.

Tagaziel said:
Let alone the fact that Stalin was ready, willing and able to send troops to Czechoslovakia when the Sudetenland crisis was ongoing but you didn't let the Soviet troops pass through. More than that, you took a part of Czechoslovakia.
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You do realize that we would have wound up invaded and occupied by the Soviet Union, like the Baltic States, right? Are you really claiming that Stalin wasn't a war-mongering, insane dictator who terrorized everyone to maintain his power?
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Bullshit. Communist Yugoslavia allowed Soviet troops access in 1944, when they were much, much stronger then they were before WWII. We didn't end up occupied. You wanted a piece of the cake, and as a result, you ended up taking it up the butthole. Boo-fucking-hoo.

Stalin's policies were very isolationist. Stalin was the single greatest advocate against invading Poland in 1920, for example.

Face it - you wanted a piece of the cake, you got fucked for it, and now you're butthurt. But you aren't butthurt at the Germans, of course, because they own you. You're butthurt at the Russkies because... you are?
 
LordAshur said:
Bullshit. Communist Yugoslavia allowed Soviet troops access in 1944, when they were much, much stronger then they were before WWII. We didn't end up occupied. You wanted a piece of the cake, and as a result, you ended up taking it up the butthole. Boo-fucking-hoo.
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You certainly do not understand the concept of history or changing circumstances. It's funny how you ignore the casus of the Baltic States. Or the mass executions of Polish officers at Katyń and elsewhere. The Holodomor genocide in Ukraine.

Now, tell me, why do you do that?

Stalin's policies were very isolationist. Stalin was the single greatest advocate against invading Poland in 1920, for example.
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Isolationist like the invasion of Finland or Poland?
 
Tagaziel said:
Now, tell me, why do you do that?
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As far as I'm concerned, the Holdomor is a lie. Every single "holdomor" picture provided has proven it's origin in the Volga region and the mere idea of a leader causing starvation on purpose is retarded beyond all logic. Unless you are so butthurt, of course.
Tagaziel said:
Stalin's policies were very isolationist. Stalin was the single greatest advocate against invading Poland in 1920, for example.
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Isolationist like the invasion of Finland or Poland?
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As I said, google Generalplan Ost, and how close the German troops got the Moscow. Now add to that how much the border changes of the Winter war contributed to Leningrad not falling under the Nazis.

But let me augment what I said before, you'd probably stick a burning bayonet up your arse if you thought it would harm Russia.
 
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Fucking cheeerist this AGAIN.

Sorry, dope, don't I don't buy into conspiracy theories. BTW, Putin isn't 'keeping the U.S., in check', he wants to fucking replace us.

Now some of you think president for life Putin is a better choice because your nations have the U.S. on your shitlists, ok, fine.

It can be argued that in the new Russian order, hypothetical as it is, the CSTO nations MIGHT be better off. That is, if Putin gives a flying fuck about his allies rather than simply using them for his own agenda, then discarding them when convenient.

But remember the mantra, 'We are all assholes'?


Crni,

I am sorry but god I hate your map. You do realise that Putin wants to replace the NATO flags with Russian/CSTO flags right????

First Ukraine, now Syria. What next?

So yea, because we are in a blood feud with the U.S., we will plunge more small countries into proxy/civil wars. The last cold war was soooo fun, we should have another one.

And Crni, while I acknowledge that you have a more naive idea that Putin will respect the idea of global economies and that jazz, his actions currently prove otherwise. He has proven he will do whatever the fuck is necessary, to make Russia, big like soviet union. Hurt his own economy, worth the sacrifice. Scare the bejeesus out of his neighbors, worth the sacrifice.


Fucking damnit, I am so disappointed I jumped into this discussion now. Lets see if we can avoid going in circles like the Akratus, Ruissian-Ukrainian, and other threads where we have argued that same exact shit against one another.
 
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DarkCorp said:
And Crni, while I acknowledge that you have a more naive idea that Putin will respect the idea of global economies and that jazz, his actions currently prove otherwise. He has proven he will do whatever the fuck is necessary, to make Russia, big like soviet union.
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Do you have at least one realistic example to back that claim up? I mean replacing the NATO and the US? Puttin is an asshole, Russia is probably not the friendliest state for the press and human rights. I agree with all of that. But as far as I can tell there is no reason to assume that Russia wants really to replace the US in it's current form or shape, nor that they want anything more than to be a regional power, a very strong power, yes, but anything else would be a strech. Russia has neither the economy nor the military to even attempt it. It took the US 60 years, one world war and a broken Sovietunion to get so far. Do you really believe Russia could even HOPE to get in the same position? Neither you nor I will see that happen. However, I do hope that Russia, China and also Europe will get in a position where they are equal to the US. With all of them having nuclear weapons they will be forced to work together and keeping each other in check and considering how strong the economic relations are, this might really lead to a very peacefull period with less wars. I mean for fucks sake, we already see it happen today! I understand that this is something that hits the Americans on a very painfull spot since they have been a super power for the last 60 years and the most dominant military force for the last 30. But they act like a spoiled child when it comes to world politics, seriously. There is only so much America the world can take. The truth is, America needs the world more than the world America.

The rest of the world is for the most part not really much better or worse compared to the US. So stop with this, but ... but ... but I know we are bad but we are doing a better job than anyone else could!

For fucks sake, we are all just bitches when it comes to money and power. We are not dictatorships and relativelly good for our own citizens. But earn a fucking lot of money by exploiting the shit out of the third world, selling weapons in to various conflicts and bombing the crap out of nations when ever it suits us. We are doing a good job? I guess that depends on who you ask ...

LordAshur said:
I mean, you Serbs made Lepa Sela Lepo Gore in 1996. A movie which clearly shows the Serbian side commiting atrocites during the war. That movie was released one year after the war was over. It's been twenty years since the war was over, and there has yet to be a Croatain movie portraying Croatian soldiers as anything but noble knights fighting against evil Serbian vampires.
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Eh, don't leap to conclussions just yet. The average Serb as far as I can tell would tell that Serbia can do no wrong and that it is always the fault of the others that everything went down the drain. Crimes? About WW2, maybe. And even that only as far as it suits them. When you ask people about the concentration camps held by Serbians in the civil war from the 1990s? Of course western propaganda. And even if it was true, than it must have been full of fanatic muslim terrorists. Vukovar, the war crimes and all the other shit that has been done by the army and many Serbians are real. But try to explain that to the stubborn. They will tell you about how Tito was right or what ever. I am really ashamed about my own people, that I can tell you.
 
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Crni,

As in my other posts in other threads, he might not have the power NOW, but if the West backs down every fucking time Putin feels the need to grow, the shit will change fast.

He is testing the waters with Ukraine and Syria. His intentions are CLEAR, he wants Russian bases in FOREIGN LANDS.

FFS, you give the Americans shit for their foreign bases at the drop of a dime, but because Putin is against us, your just going to ignore it? You argue, 'its only two', when all they really are is just a stepping stone.

He is cool with Iran because the Shias will be to him, what the Sunnis are to us. He is cool with Al Assad because he is to Russia, what Pinochet was to us. He is cool with Lukashenko because he is to Russia, what Noriega was to us. Do I need to name more??

That fact that Russia created a NATO copy called the fucking CSTO???? But thats ok because Putin claims its, 'self-defense'.

PS; All those nationalist psychos people be talking about in Ukraine? We didn't hear too much from those dickwads until Russia started flexing their muscles in the Ukranian east. When Putin gets hungry, its all too right to get fucking scared. Maybe even scared enough to embrace nazi idiots. Still stupid I must admit.
 
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'he wants Russian bases in FOREIGN LANDS.'

And America doesn't?

Almost every fucking thing America accuses Russia they do worse. I'm not saying Russia is better, just that the whole anti Russian propaganda machine is hypocritical.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Almost every fucking thing America accuses Russia they do worse. I'm not saying Russia is better, just that the whole anti Russian propaganda machine is hypocritical.
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Tu quoque fallacy. The fact that America fucks up doesn't excuse Russian fuck ups.
 
I have NEVER said that we do not have bases in foreign lands.

These debates started as a result of U.S.A hate boner, back slapping. Oh, the U.S. is the biggest asshole of all LOL. Because of that, we're going to support the creation of even MORE assholes. Because, with our logic, a world full of assholes is just soooo goddamn fun.

We hate the Americans sooo much that we would love to see another cold war pop up.
 
DarkCorp said:
Crni,

As in my other posts in other threads, he might not have the power NOW, but if the West backs down every fucking time Putin feels the need to grow, the shit will change fast.

He is testing the waters with Ukraine and Syria. His intentions are CLEAR, he wants Russian bases in FOREIGN LANDS.

FFS, you give the Americans shit for their foreign bases at the drop of a dime, but because Putin is against us, your just going to ignore it? You argue, 'its only two', when all they really are is just a stepping stone.

He is cool with Iran because the Shias will be to him, what the Sunnis are to us. He is cool with Al Assad because he is to Russia, what Pinochet was to us. He is cool with Lukashenko because he is to Russia, what Noriega was to us. Do I need to name more??

That fact that Russia created a NATO copy called the fucking CSTO???? But thats ok because Putin claims its, 'self-defense'.

PS; All those nationalist psychos people be talking about in Ukraine? We didn't hear too much from those dickwads until Russia started flexing their muscles in the Ukranian east. When Putin gets hungry, its all too right to get fucking scared. Maybe even scared enough to embrace nazi idiots. Still stupid I must admit.
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Don't take it as offense, but do you seriously believe that? Like I said, I am sure not a friend of Russias politics and their rather autocratic government, but this idea sounds to much like what got the US in to situations like Vietnam - or the Soviets into Afghanistan. The constant idea of confrontation. Again, without any offense, but that's to close to Russophobia.

They are not out there to dominate us any time soon.

Tagaziel said:
Dr Fallout said:
Almost every fucking thing America accuses Russia they do worse. I'm not saying Russia is better, just that the whole anti Russian propaganda machine is hypocritical.
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Tu quoque fallacy. The fact that America fucks up doesn't excuse Russian fuck ups.
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No one said it's an excuse. It's just really miniscule when you compare it to the political decisions of the last 20-30 years by the NATO and in many ways the american policy. More than 100 000 dead Irakis and all of it for what can be only described as a ruse, and yet, it doesn't seem to bothe anyone really, business as usual. Russia is right now getting a lot of attention and there is a lot of what I can only describe as propaganda in our western media where Putin gets compard to Hitler. Is that the way how we should do politics? Even people who have gone trough the cold war warn us about this kind of course.

We constantly get in to affairs that are from the distance alone, not even in our hemisphere. Particularly the US. I mean take Syria as best example. It has seen more influence and military actions by western nations in the recent years than Russia. Or the middle east as whole. But when you take a look at the map, you realize that Russia has more reasons to fear the instability in those regions than Europe or the US, when you consider the distance alone. And it is not like Russia has not to deal with islamic extremism - see Beslan and the many other terrorist attacks it had to deal with over the last 30 years. Russia sure does its part to give those islamic fanatics more than one reason to hate them, but still. Our actions constantly jeoperdize the fragile condition in the middle east, and if shit hits the fan, Russia is simply closer to it all than we are. Definitely closer than the US.

When you simply compare the actions of the NATO with Russia over the last 20 years, you can't get around the idea that we are actually the bad guys in this drama ...
 
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Putin isn't going to dominate the U.S. But Putin sure does have eyes for non-NATO allies. If we continue to show weakness, who knows.

But oh yea, any kind of dis-agreement with Russian strategic foreign policy is RUSSOPHOBIA. Russia isn't out there to be a global player like Dr. Fallout seems to agree, they are only supporting Assad and Iran for, BENEVOLENT, ALTRUISTIC reasons. They only want to curb extremism, sure.

You wanted examples, I gavce examples. If you do not like them, its not my problem. Ostriches, sigh.


Not an excuse????

America is a butthole so we are going to be buttholes too. But remember folks, were not a bigger butthole than America is so we are good.

Oh wait, your saying, EVULZ WEST ALONE creates problems. Big manly Putin cleans up western mess. Putin HERO.
 
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